No one comes to the Father except through me

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I 'd like to know what is the meaning of John 14,6

" Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

Can people in other religions go directly to God without knowing Jesus Christ?

or maybe there are some common values that this religions share with christianity , therfore this religions have some part of true of the holly spirit and make part of Jesus without they knowing due to their good will and values ?

Thomas Aquinas said that the one that says the true is with the holly spirit dosent matter who is him.

I know our church have an endless amount of miracles. there are miracles in other religions as well due to the good will of the persons.
I know that Jesus is the best way to go to God using the sacraments and everything he gave us; Our Holly Mother, The Church , the bible etc.

I d like to know if the non christian can also see the father without beliveing in Jesus ?

can anyone help me with this questions

thanks
 
Jesus said “No one comes to the Father except through Me.” He doesn’t say except through knowing Me. People other than Christians can go to the Father (speaking here of praying to the Father) without knowing Jesus. But consider that their prayer may reach the Father only through Jesus even though they are unaware of it. The same is true for going to heaven; it is only thru the merits of Jesus Christ that any human being enters heaven - Christian or non-Christian. Non-Christians may not know it here on earth, but once they get to heaven I’m sure they will.

Nita
 
Hello Jimmy,

Here is an example of some non-Catholics going to heaven through Jesus. God swears to Abraham that if he obeys God he will go to heaven. The only way God can fulfill His promise to Abraham and bring Abraham into heaven is through the blood of Jesus. Jesus tells us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven.

Salvation through Jesus is understood by the Old Testament Israelites as God’s “Right Hand”. It is God’s “Right Hand” who saves those Israelites who faithfully love and obey God.

This is not to say that Jesus salvation is part of other Christian schisms and pagan religions, but Jesus is certianly the saving part of the OT Israelite religion.

Please visit: Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?

NAB MAR 12:18

Then some **Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection **came to him with a question …\…12:24 Jesus said: “You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob’? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken.” NAB LUK 13:28

And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

NIV PSA 108:6

Save us and help us with your right hand, that those you love may be delivered.NIV PSA 138:7

Though I walk in the midst of trouble, you preserve my life; you stretch out your hand against the anger of my foes, with your right hand you save me.NAB ISA 41:8

But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, offspring of Abraham my friend - You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth and summoned from its far-off places, You whom I have called my servant, whom I have chosen and will not cast off - Fear not, I am with you; be not dismayed; I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you, and uphold you with my right hand of justice.
 
jimmy85 said:
I 'd like to know what is the meaning of John 14,6

" Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

Can people in other religions go directly to God without knowing Jesus Christ?

or maybe there are some common values that this religions share with christianity , therfore this religions have some part of true of the holly spirit and make part of Jesus without they knowing due to their good will and values ?

Thomas Aquinas said that the one that says the true is with the holly spirit dosent matter who is him.

I know our church have an endless amount of miracles. there are miracles in other religions as well due to the good will of the persons.
I know that Jesus is the best way to go to God using the sacraments and everything he gave us; Our Holly Mother, The Church , the bible etc.

I d like to know if the non christian can also see the father without beliveing in Jesus ?

can anyone help me with this questions

thanks
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Jimmy, I believe that no one, absolutely no one, can go to the father without going through Jesus. One may choose to be a buddhist, hindu, muslim, calathumpian, or whatever, but you cannot go to the Father except through Jesus. He is the gatekeeper to the Father. And no one is left free of the Mercy of God. each and every individual will be given the option for or against God, otherwise God’s Mercy and forgiveness are limited to a certain place and/or time and then no more.
this is also why the concept of Limbo is outside the Mercy of God and cannot exist, because this says that there is a place that Mercy cannot reach. That Jesus cannot enter into Limbo. He could enter into Sheol, but not Limbo, absolutely not. This Mercy of God which is endless and eternal is mediated through the gatekeeper, Jesus.
GraceAngel.:angel1:
 
Grace_Angel said:
Jimmy, I believe that no one, absolutely no one, can go to the father without going through Jesus. One may choose to be a buddhist, hindu, muslim, calathumpian, or whatever, but you cannot go to the Father except through Jesus. He is the gatekeeper to the Father. And no one is left free of the Mercy of God. each and every individual will be given the option for or against God, otherwise God’s Mercy and forgiveness are limited to a certain place and/or time and then no more.
this is also why the concept of Limbo is outside the Mercy of God and cannot exist, because this says that there is a place that Mercy cannot reach. That Jesus cannot enter into Limbo. He could enter into Sheol, but not Limbo, absolutely not. This Mercy of God which is endless and eternal is mediated through the gatekeeper, Jesus.
GraceAngel.:angel1:
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actually , Limbo is not Dogma, but it is EXACTLY an act of Mercy…a paradise outside the edge of paradise, for the unbaptized to dwell for eternity… …it is only theory though, and Pope Benedict [Ratzinger] is not really keen on it…

It is nice to think that our Merciful God would set up a second chance for the upbaptized, yet good or innocent [children] people…
 
The , paragraphs 846-848, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"Catechism of the Catholic Church, talks about the possibility of salvation for non-Catholics who, through no fault of their own, do not know Jesus Christ or His Catholic Church but seek God with a sincere heart try in their actions to do God’s will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience.

This seems to be in line with St. Peter’s words in Acts 10:35:
“but in every nation any one who fears him [God] and does what is right is acceptable to him.”
 
Steven_Merten said:
Hello Jimmy,

Here is an example of some non-Catholics going to heaven through Jesus. God swears to Abraham that if he obeys God he will go to heaven. The only way God can fulfill His promise to Abraham and bring Abraham into heaven is through the blood of Jesus. Jesus tells us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven.

Salvation through Jesus is understood by the Old Testament Israelites as God’s “Right Hand”. It is God’s “Right Hand” who saves those Israelites who faithfully love and obey God.

This is not to say that Jesus salvation is part of other Christian schisms and pagan religions, but Jesus is certianly the saving part of the OT Israelite religion.

Please visit: Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?

NAB MAR 12:18

Then some **Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection **came to him with a question …\…12:24 Jesus said: “You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob’? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken.” NAB LUK 13:28

And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out.

NIV PSA 108:6

Save us and help us with your right hand, that those you love may be delivered.NIV PSA 138:7

Though I walk in the midst of trouble, you preserve my life; you stretch out your hand against the anger of my foes, with your right hand you save me.NAB ISA 41:8

But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, offspring of Abraham my friend - You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth and summoned from its far-off places, You whom I have called my servant, whom I have chosen and will not cast off - Fear not, I am with you; be not dismayed; I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you, and uphold you with my right hand of justice.
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The salvation of the OT saints is quite a different matter than those on this side of the Incarnation. Abraham responded to what was revealed. Likewise we need to as well. The well meaning Buddhist who has heard of Jesus cannot reject Him and then go through through Him at the same time. Jesus makes clear elsewhere that going through is accomplsihed by believing in Him. If you go through someone you first need to be aware of them and second to act on what you know. The Gospels are replete with Jesus equating belief in Him as the way to the Father. Anything short of this is pure sophistry.
 
Grace_Angel said:
Jimmy, I believe that no one, absolutely no one, can go to the father without going through Jesus. One may choose to be a buddhist, hindu, muslim, calathumpian, or whatever, but you cannot go to the Father except through Jesus. He is the gatekeeper to the Father. And no one is left free of the Mercy of God. each and every individual will be given the option for or against God, otherwise God’s Mercy and forgiveness are limited to a certain place and/or time and then no more.
this is also why the concept of Limbo is outside the Mercy of God and cannot exist, because this says that there is a place that Mercy cannot reach. That Jesus cannot enter into Limbo. He could enter into Sheol, but not Limbo, absolutely not. This Mercy of God which is endless and eternal is mediated through the gatekeeper, Jesus.
GraceAngel.:angel1:
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Jimmy, I don’t agree with this view. I always think about the child in some third world country who has never been told that Jesus even exists.

I don’t believe for one second that they would be damned to hell for not being born somewhere where they could learn about Christianity.

I believe that God can see into everyones heart, not just Christians, but everyone…
 
Well in Catholic theology, there is the concept of “baptism by desire.” From the CCC:

" "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.“62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.”

That answers the question about people who never have the opportunity to know about Christianity. I don’t know about morally good people from other religions though… It’s something I’ve been trying to learn more about. I’ve been raised a protestant, and in that tradition faith is very important (I’m sure you all know about justification by faith alone.)
 
This is the teaching of the Catholic church… this is from the:

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964 ,

It is found in paragraph number 16.

"…Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life."*

Here is the document:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.htm

In laymans terms I have selected a paragraph, which was obtained from here:

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=674

“Those, who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may attain eternal salvation” (Catechism, no. 847). Sincere non-Christians can be moved by grace to seek God and know and do His will. When they do so according to the dictates of their conscience they can be saved, for by God’s will they are associated with the paschal mystery of Christ.

You can find further information about people who don’t know about Christ by reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church number 847.

You can find further information in the Catechism of the Catholic Church about non-Christians, number 836 to 845.

This was obtained from here: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm
 
valkotukka said:
I don’t know about morally good people from other religions though… It’s something I’ve been trying to learn more about. I’ve been raised a protestant, and in that tradition faith is very important (I’m sure you all know about justification by faith alone.)
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You can find further information in the Catechism of the Catholic Church about non-Christians, number 836 to 845

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

CCC 843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”
 
Among other things Jesus says “I am the door”. Think of this a bit literally for a moment. Think of Jesus, Himself, being the entry way to Heaven. No one will get into Heaven (and therefore the Father) without going through Him. It will be up to Jesus to determine if someone gains access or not. Whether they are Catholic or not, all humankind will go through Jesus to get to Heaven.

The Church teaches that non-Catholics may attain salvation. The CCC (847)says that those who seek God with a sincere heart but who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ or His Church may attain salvation. I know that one scripture that supports this is Rm 2:13. However, that does not negate our responsibility to spread the Gospel to non-Christians. I don’t know how culpable people in this day and age will be as far as “through no fault of their own” is concerned.

Let us remember one thing, we know that God is the infinitely perfect and just judge. Wherever we end up, heaven or hell, it will be because we deserve it.
 
The Catholic Church’s position is that supernatural faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation, but that faith may be implict in those who through no fault of their own do not believe the Gospel–not by carelessness, nor temporal interest, nor human respect, nor the spirit of obstinacy, nor by malice, but simply because they never doubted, and never had sufficient means of knowing the truth, which they would embrace at once, and with gladness, could they only discover it,*—*all these, we say, belong to the soul of the Church, and will be saved, if they lead good lives and do not violate God’s law. Such people have an implicit faith in Him because they strive to conform themselves to the natural law (written on all hearts by Him) and they seek the Truth, adherence to it, and communion with God (this concept is often called Baptism of desire).
 
Another verse that is along the same lines:

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16

I can see salvation for the tribesman living in the African jungle
who has never heard the name of Jesus, but what about those who have heard the gospel, listened to the pope, read the scriptures, been missionaried to (if that is a word), and still after intellectualizing and absorbing all of the information about the church continues to deny Christ?

I know what the CCC says about this, but the idea of “universal salvation” for those who have been educated and preached to is something I struggle with.

Jesus says “he who hears”, once the truth has been revealed, can one willfully continue to deny Christ? Isn’t this the reason for the dire need for missionaries and evangalization?

My mother always told me that this was the reason why a catholic is in great jeapordy if they leave the church. They have been given the truth, and yet they turn their back to it.

“To those who have been given much, much will be expected from them” I always understood this to mean that not only should one be monitarily blessed they are to be held more reasponsible to their neighbor, but also that one who has been given the truth of Jesus, or been raised in the faith, the burden of living a holy life is expected from them more so than that of one who is not enlightened.

Once Again, I know what the CCC says on the matter and I do not want to be disobedient to the church, nor do I want to disbelieve her teachings. I want someone to explain to me the reasoning, based upon scripture and past tradition, for the church’s current teaching about salvation not just for those outside of the church, but for those who willfully deny even the existance of Christ.:confused:

Thanks.
 
marci said:
Another verse that is along the same lines:

“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16

I can see salvation for the tribesman living in the African jungle
who has never heard the name of Jesus, but what about those who have heard the gospel, listened to the pope, read the scriptures, been missionaried to (if that is a word), and still after intellectualizing and absorbing all of the information about the church continues to deny Christ?

I know what the CCC says about this, but the idea of “universal salvation” for those who have been educated and preached to is something I struggle with.

Jesus says “he who hears”, once the truth has been revealed, can one willfully continue to deny Christ? Isn’t this the reason for the dire need for missionaries and evangalization?

My mother always told me that this was the reason why a catholic is in great jeapordy if they leave the church. They have been given the truth, and yet they turn their back to it.

“To those who have been given much, much will be expected from them” I always understood this to mean that not only should one be monitarily blessed they are to be held more reasponsible to their neighbor, but also that one who has been given the truth of Jesus, or been raised in the faith, the burden of living a holy life is expected from them more so than that of one who is not enlightened.

Once Again, I know what the CCC says on the matter and I do not want to be disobedient to the church, nor do I want to disbelieve her teachings. I want someone to explain to me the reasoning, based upon scripture and past tradition, for the church’s current teaching about salvation not just for those outside of the church, but for those who willfully deny even the existance of Christ.:confused:

Thanks.
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First I would say that we must maintain a balance between presumption and despair (God has a way of setting things up so we fall into neither). We do not presume anyone will be saved without the Catholic faith–so we bring it to all–at the same time we don’t despair if people die without it, because only God knows their hearts and it is possible for them to be saved.

Secondly, speculating on the salvation of other people is a pointless endeavor–just bring the truth to all you can in deed and word and let the Holy Spirit do the rest and let the Judge and Savior do the judging and saving.

As for your questions, you can’t say for sure who has really heard. Just because they know of the Christian religion doesn’t mean they don’t have all sorts of obstacles that are not their fault that may be in the way. As Pope Pius IX stated:

“On the other hand,it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord.** Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance**, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, lands, native talents, and so many other factors? Only when we have been released from the bonds of this body and see God just as He is[1Jn 3:2] shall we really understandhow close and beautiful a bond joins divine mercy with divine justice. But as long as we dwell on earth, encumbered with this soul-dulling, mortal body, let us tenaciously cling to the Catholic doctrine that there is one God, one faith, one baptism [Eph. 4:5]. To proceed with further inquiry is contrary to divine law.” Singulari Quadam (December 9, 1854)

All those who have not been Baptized must have Baptism by desire to be saved. St. Alphonsus Liguori, a great doctor of the Church explains it (citing the Council of Trent):

St. Alphonsus Liguori (1691-1787) Moral Theology - (Bk. 6): "But baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true Baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called ‘of wind’ ‘flaminis’] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost Who is called a wind ‘flamen’]. Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon ‘Apostolicam De Presbytero Non Baptizato’ and the Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, where it is said that no one can be saved ‘without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.’"
 
I just wanted to add this little bit from St. Pius X’s Catechism (1910):

29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?

A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation.

Likewise, Catholics are held to a higher standard when it comes to the faith. From the First Vatican Council:
  1. Consequently, the situation of those, who by the heavenly gift of faith have embraced the Catholic truth, is by no means the same as that of those who, led by human opinions, follow a false religion; for those who have accepted the faith under the guidance of the Church can never have any just cause for changing this faith or for calling it into question.
 
Genesis315 said:
First I would say that we must maintain a balance between presumption and despair (God has a way of setting things up so we fall into neither). We do not presume anyone will be saved without the Catholic faith–so we bring it to all–at the same time we don’t despair if people die without it, because only God knows their hearts and it is possible for them to be saved.

I agree, I would never presume to know the state of any individual soul, and I believe that even in the last moments of life one can find salvation. I am speaking more about the general presumption that anti-christian religions or athiests, because they are very good and charitable people will be saved.
Secondly, speculating on the salvation of other people is a pointless endeavor–just bring the truth to all you can in deed and word and let the Holy Spirit do the rest and let the Judge and Savior do the judging and saving.
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Melchior said:
The salvation of the OT saints is quite a different matter than those on this side of the Incarnation. Abraham responded to what was revealed. Likewise we need to as well. The well meaning Buddhist who has heard of Jesus cannot reject Him and then go through through Him at the same time. Jesus makes clear elsewhere that going through is accomplsihed by believing in Him. If you go through someone you first need to be aware of them and second to act on what you know. The Gospels are replete with Jesus equating belief in Him as the way to the Father. Anything short of this is pure sophistry.
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Hello Melchior,

Do you agree that Abraham was obedient to the Father and goes to heaven “through” Jesus?

Jesus teaches that those who obey God, as Jesus teaches, are the ones who believe in Him. Abraham did obey God as Jesus teaches, Jesus’ teachings being the same as the Father’s teachings. Jesus tells us that the prostitutes and tax collectors who believe in John the Baptist and put faith in John the Baptist, entered into heaven. John the Baptist (filled with the Holy Spirit) taught a way of holiness as Jesus taught. Obeying Father, Son or Holy Spirit is to believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Please visit: Believe

NAB JOH 12:44
Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.” NAB JOH 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.
NAB WIS 12:2

Therefore you rebuke offenders little by little, warn them, and remind them of the sins they are committing, that they may abandon their wickedness and believe in you, O LORD!NAB LUK 8:13

13: Those on the rocky ground are the ones who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. They have no root; **they believe **for a while, but fall away in time of temptation.
NIV PSA 78:32

In spite of all this, they kept on sinning; in spite of his wonders, they did not believe.**NAB MAT 21:31 **

Jesus said to them, "I assure you that tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you. When John came preaching a way of holiness, you put no faith in him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did believe in him. Yet even when you saw that, you did not repent and believe in him. "
 
2 Questions

1 Does anyone know how to paste a MsWord Attachment fill as I have a lengthy response to above.

2 I am unable to use the Fonts, Bold, Underline etc provided above. Anyone knows why?- help.

Thanks
 
richardeekw said:
2 Questions

1 Does anyone know how to paste a MsWord Attachment fill as I have a lengthy response to above.

2 I am unable to use the Fonts, Bold, Underline etc provided above. Anyone knows why?- help.

Thanks
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Hello Richard,

As I am posting this post I am looking right above the box where my words there is a B, this will bold, there is a U, this will underline.

If you left click and drag your mouse over the whole text that you want to bold, underline or cut and paste then click bold, underline it will bold or underline it for you. If you want to cut and past from a Microsoft file or anything on the internet, left click at the begining of the text and drag your mouse to the end of the text and then put your cursor on the highlighted text and right click, then go up and left click on the “edit” button, next to file, at the top left of the screen, click on copy in the drop down menu, then go to the area in the post box where you want to paste and right click, then left click on the paste from the drop down menu. This will transport the text that you wish to paste on this thread.

Let me know if you have problems.
 
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