"No One Follows the Ten Commandments"

[David_Treadman]

My English professor made a statement yesterday that, “Men made the Ten Commandments, but no one follows or even listens to them.” I asked, “No one?” He looked me in the eyes and said, “Covet my neighbor’s goods? That’s capitalism. Thou Shalt not kill? People kill all the time.” I am not usually a confrontational person, but I wanted to say more to these heretical ideas. I decided not to because I thought of Jesus, for he would not have wanted me to disagree with anger and disgust that I was afraid I would give. I was the only one to even express a question about this in the classroom. Was I right to have not tried to cast down his blasphemy or did I show proper discretion? I’m really confused.

 

[Petergee]

I’m intrigued that you apparently think that the blasphemy is in the second half of his statement.
The blasphemy is in the first half. God, not men, made the Ten Commandments.

The second half is basically true. You can find very similar statements in the Bible (“All have sinned”), the Doctors and Fathers of the Church, and the Church’s official teaching. We ALL at times break and ignore the Ten Commandments. I would go so far as to say that all of us, at one time or another, have broken every one of the Ten Commandments in one way or another.

 

[Mintaka]

And of course capitalism isn’t about coveting your neighbor’s goods; it’s about offering your neighbor money for his goods, and your neighbor being happy to accept. Indeed, your neighbor and you make goods and collect money for each other, in order that you may exchange them.

I guess your professor doesn’t believe that consenting adults can make contracts, or perhaps thinks that life is an MMO where people should only be able to possess what they themselves produce.

Covetousness is all about wanting to have your neighbor’s goods while wanting your neighbor to have nothing. Capitalism is about wanting to know what you can give your neighbor in order to get what you want. The result of covetousness is crime, not capitalism. (Capitalism is more likely to lead to greed or excessive attachment, on the one side, or gambling and cheating on the other.)

 

[JRKH]

My English professor made a statement yesterday that, “Men made the Ten Commandments, but no one follows or even listens to them.” I asked, “No one?” He looked me in the eyes and said, “Covet my neighbor’s goods? That’s capitalism. Thou Shalt not kill? People kill all the time.” I am not usually a confrontational person, but I wanted to say more to these heretical ideas. I decided not to because I thought of Jesus, for he would not have wanted me to disagree with anger and disgust that I was afraid I would give. I was the only one to even express a question about this in the classroom. Was I right to have not tried to cast down his blasphemy or did I show proper discretion? I’m really confused.

Ignoring his comment about who made the commandments, It is patently wrong to say that “no one follows them or even listens to them”. Such a blanket statement cannot be supported.

As for whether you were correct in how you handled it, perhaps. Though Jesus Himself tended to show a bit of “Disgust” at those who taught in error.

Perhaps you could go back into class after giving it some thought and preperation and confront the professor calmly. Begin with, "Professor, your statemet the other day regarding the ten commandments caught be off guard and I would like to discuss this a bit with you.
I suspect that, once you begin to make a couple of good points, others in class will back you up.
Also Trust in the Holy Spirit. He will give you the right words.

Begin with his blanket statment that 'NO ONE - follows or listens to them anymore". It is a statment that HE would need to prove. I am reminded of Lot in Sodom where he needed to find ten rightious people. Except in this case the professors statement can be easily disproven by reference to the many religious who live simple lives of prayer. Reference to a lay group such as “Opus Dei” demonstrates that there are many people who Love God and follow His precepts even “in the world” outside religious communities. Thus his underlying foundational statement is false.

As to specifics of what he mentions:
“Covet my neighbors goods” is NOT capitalism. Covet refers to envy and possibly even stealing but not to the economic system of capitalism.
“Thou Shall not Kill” is a misreading of the command not to commit murder. - Since extremely few people ever commit murder, let alone "Kill another, even justifiably, his statement fails by his own yardstick of “no one follows or listens to them” anymore.

My suspicion is that the professor will not wish to discuss it further in open class. To which you might respond that, since he made the accusation in open class, it is only fair that you be allowed to rebut it in open class.
If he still refuses your debate in open class, write up a rebuttal (He’s an English teacher right?) make copies for other class members and pass them out to him and to the other class members.

Just some early morning random thoughts.
Hope some of this helps

Peace
James

 

[LindaSK]

My English professor made a statement yesterday that, “Men made the Ten Commandments, but no one follows or even listens to them.” I asked, “No one?” He looked me in the eyes and said, “Covet my neighbor’s goods? That’s capitalism. Thou Shalt not kill? People kill all the time.” I am not usually a confrontational person, but I wanted to say more to these heretical ideas. I decided not to because I thought of Jesus, for he would not have wanted me to disagree with anger and disgust that I was afraid I would give. I was the only one to even express a question about this in the classroom. Was I right to have not tried to cast down his blasphemy or did I show proper discretion? I’m really confused.

"Men made the Ten Commandments" - If I were going to jump all over any one thing he said, it would be this!

He should stick to teaching English! I’m curious as to what you were studying at the time that prompted him to make this statement in the middle of an English lecture.

Yes, we are all sinners. No argument there. That is why we go to Confession. I presume he is not Catholic, but, no matter. I see this as a “cup half empty, cup half full” situation. For example, in discussing 9/11, one could focus only on the horrors. Objectively, there were many heroic and charitable and selfless acts performed. They don’t reduce the tragedy of the day, but they need to be acknowledged to portray a more accurate picture of that day.

Curious that he went to coveting first. We don’t know what ‘baggage’ he brought with him to class that day. Is he going through a divorce, or having some other personal struggle? Has he been consistently so negative lately? Just a thought.

Given the public nature of the statement, I would say you used good discretion. Nothing is gained in anger. I might ask to continue the discussion in private.

 

[JRKH]

"Men made the Ten Commandments" - If I were going to jump all over any one thing he said, it would be this!

He should stick to teaching English! I’m curious as to what you were studying at the time that prompted him to make this statement in the middle of an English lecture.

Yes, we are all sinners. No argument there. That is why we go to Confession. I presume he is not Catholic, but, no matter. I see this as a “cup half empty, cup half full” situation. For example, in discussing 9/11, one could focus only on the horrors. Objectively, there were many heroic and charitable and selfless acts performed. They don’t reduce the tragedy of the day, but they need to be acknowledged to portray a more accurate picture of that day.

Curious that he went to coveting first. We don’t know what ‘baggage’ he brought with him to class that day. Is he going through a divorce, or having some other personal struggle? Has he been consistently so negative lately? Just a thought.

Given the public nature of the statement, I would say you used good discretion. Nothing is gained in anger. I might ask to continue the discussion in private.

My only concern about “jumping all over” whether man, or God made the ten commandments is that it is apt to turn the discussion from whether there are good moral, God fearing" people still around, to whether God even exists.

I agree with some of your other comments about him possibly having tough issues in his life right now. However, I also think that, since the comment was made in public, a public response is appropriate. After all this person of authority has proclaimed a pretty damaging, and public, teaching to those who are under his authority. Such an errant teaching should be publicly debunked. IMHO.

Of course we do not know the circumstances as well as the OP so it must be his call.

Peace
James

 

[LindaSK]

My only concern about “jumping all over” whether man, or God made the ten commandments is that it is apt to turn the discussion from whether there are good moral, God fearing" people still around, to whether God even exists.

I agree with some of your other comments about him possibly having tough issues in his life right now. However, I also think that, since the comment was made in public, a public response is appropriate. After all this person of authority has proclaimed a pretty damaging, and public, teaching to those who are under his authority. Such an errant teaching should be publicly debunked. IMHO.

Of course we do not know the circumstances as well as the OP so it must be his call.

Peace
James

"jumping all over" - agreed - poor choice of words!

…since the comment was made in public, a public response is appropriate. I really do agree with this. I guess my thought was that if he were approached in private, he would tend to be less defensive, and, hopefully, the public response would actually come from him in the form of a clarification and retraction.

 

[JRKH]

"jumping all over" - agreed - poor choice of words!

…since the comment was made in public, a public response is appropriate. I really do agree with this. I guess my thought was that if he were approached in private, he would tend to be less defensive, and, hopefully, the public response would actually come from him in the form of a clarification and retraction.

These are good points also.
Things to be considered by the person closest to the situation.

Peace
James

 

[imkingdad]

your Professor’s logic & statements are clearly flawed as the above comments clearly demonstrate. Also he is a bigoted anti-Christian ( anti-religious) person who should not be foisting off his opinions & bias on young unsuspecting Youth especially when he is not teaching in that particular area. He is Propagandizing all of you. You can complain to the dept head or the Dean of the college. Most won’t do to much but you & others having the courage to stand up & be counted is a positive thing.

Far too often a fool thinks his opinion is well received because those around him lend their tacit approval to his rantings be remaining silent. No need to start a war of word, but you can make yourself & viewpoint felt by a simple statement. for example,
“That certainly is an interesting statement of opinion you’ve just made, fortunately for society the majority do not share your views.” (using your example above)

good luck & God Bless

 

[Holly3278]

I’m intrigued that you apparently think that the blasphemy is in the second half of his statement.
The blasphemy is in the first half. God, not men, made the Ten Commandments.

The second half is basically true. You can find very similar statements in the Bible (“All have sinned”), the Doctors and Fathers of the Church, and the Church’s official teaching. We ALL at times break and ignore the Ten Commandments. I would go so far as to say that all of us, at one time or another, have broken every one of the Ten Commandments in one way or another.

Exactly! This man’s main error is that he thinks that men made the Ten Commandments! Of course that is not true. God made the Ten Commandments!

 

[Petergee]

“Thou Shall not Kill” is a misreading of the command not to commit murder.

Are you going to tell the Pope that he made the same “misreading” in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

Since extremely few people ever commit murder, let alone "Kill another, even justifiably, his statement fails by his own yardstick of “no one follows or listens to them” anymore.

Our Saviour said that every time we get angry with a fellow man or call him a fool or a renegade, we in a sense “kill” him and commit a sin against the Fifth Commandment.

And it is estimated that more than 30% of the female population of the USA have or will commit at least one deliberately procured abortion (i.e. murder) in their lifetimes. And nearly all cases of abortion murder have a male (father or grandfather) who is one of, if not the, major force pushing for the abortion to be carried out.

So I would say killing or murder is tragically common.

 

[JRKH]

Are you going to tell the Pope that he made the same “misreading” in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

I would have to research the catachism before I respond to this, but I will say that. so long as the Church holds that there can be a “just war”, in which there is killing, or that a person may kill in order to protect themselves or another, then there are obviously conditions placed on just what “Thou shall not kill” means.
Thus when arguing such with an obviously non-Christian person, such distinctions must be clearly shown.

Our Saviour said that every time we get angry with a fellow man or call him a fool or a renegade, we in a sense “kill” him and commit a sin against the Fifth Commandment.

And it is estimated that more than 30% of the female population of the USA have or will commit at least one deliberately procured abortion (i.e. murder) in their lifetimes. And nearly all cases of abortion murder have a male (father or grandfather) who is one of, if not the, major force pushing for the abortion to be carried out.

So I would say killing or murder is tragically common.

Indeed killing is terribly common, However, you seem to be overlooking the professors actual statement that “No onelistens to or follows…”. 30% is not 100%. In fact it means that 70%, a sizable majority will not get an abortion.

In arguing with such a rash and rediculous statement as the professor made, one must seek the obvious flaws - as can be shown to him easily. The deeper theological issues can then be raised once he is on the defensive and more receptive to your, well thought out responses. That is once his position is weakened by demonstrating that he has not thought things through thoroughly.

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

My English professor made a statement yesterday that, “Men made the Ten Commandments, but no one follows or even listens to them.” I asked, “No one?” He looked me in the eyes and said, “Covet my neighbor’s goods? That’s capitalism. Thou Shalt not kill? People kill all the time.” I

the statement is absurd on the face of it. Every state and society has laws based on the principles of the decalogue. It is illogical to say that because some people break one of the commandments, nobody obeys any of them, ever. Ask him to stick to grammar and literature since he obviously is no student of history. In fact he must not read much because most of the world’s great literature is based on stories of people who either heroically kept the commandments, or who broke one or more of them, suffered for it, watched others suffer, were redeemed and emerged sadder but wiser.

 

[brb3]

You should of said 2 did. Christ & Mary.

That would of got the classes attention. At least re: Mary.

 

[Petergee]

Indeed killing is terribly common, However, you seem to be overlooking the professors actual statement that “No onelistens to or follows…”. 30% is not 100%. In fact it means that 70%, a sizable majority will not get an abortion.

In arguing with such a rash and rediclous statement as the professor made, one must seek the obvious flaws - as can be shown to him easily. The deeper theological issues can then be raised once he is on the defensive and more receptive to your, well thought out responses. That is once his position is weakened by demonstrating that he has not thought things through thoroughly.

Peace
James

I was responding to your statement

extremely few people ever commit murder, let alone "Kill another, even justifiably

Combatting the obvious flaws in the professor’s argument with an abviously flawed counter-argument will not weaken his position.
The professor reportedly said “people kill all the time” (an obvious truth we can confirm just by reading the daily news). Not “100% of people kill”.

 

[Petergee]

the statement is absurd on the face of it. Every state and society has laws based on the principles of the decalogue. It is illogical to say that because some people break one of the commandments, nobody obeys any of them, ever.

I don’t see the word “ever” in the OP. Let’s not jump at shadows.

 

[Petergee]

your Professor’s logic & statements are clearly flawed as the above comments clearly demonstrate. Also he is a bigoted anti-Christian ( anti-religious) person who should not be foisting off his opinions & bias on young unsuspecting Youth especially when he is not teaching in that particular area. He is Propagandizing all of you. You can complain to the dept head or the Dean of the college. Most won’t do to much but you & others having the courage to stand up & be counted is a positive thing.

Far too often a fool thinks his opinion is well received because those around him lend their tacit approval to his rantings be remaining silent. No need to start a war of word, but you can make yourself & viewpoint felt by a simple statement. for example,
“That certainly is an interesting statement of opinion you’ve just made, fortunately for society the majority do not share your views.” (using your example above)

good luck & God Bless

I agree with your comments but I wonder whether this apparently one-off passing comment is worth while making a federal case out of it. Keep your powder dry to fight the big battles with the big guns. This bloke sounds like just nuisance value. Yes, correct him in the class, but from the info in the OP this is not an offence which warrants rushing off to higher authority.

 

[Jermosh]

I think the key is the play on words. Do people follow the 10 Commandments, yes, is there one person who has not fallen against them, no(minus Jesus and Mary, but that is matter of faith).

 

[JRKH]

I was responding to your statement
Combatting the obvious flaws in the professor’s argument with an abviously flawed counter-argument will not weaken his position.
The professor reportedly said “people kill all the time” (an obvious truth we can confirm just by reading the daily news). Not “100% of people kill”.

Point taken - Thanks

Peace
James

 

[Zooey]

Coveting has nothing to do with capitalism.
Capitalism is wanting to add to your property holdings, and offering your neighbor twice the market value of his property anytime he decides to sell out.
Covetousness is sitting up all night, drooling over the nearest side of his house, until you burn it down with him in it, just so he won’t have it any more instead of you.
Then, you ask him, “What time in the night can we expect your neighbor’s house to go up in flames?”
When he picks his mouth up off the floor, he will deny that he “ever thought of such a dreadful thing”.
At which point you say, “Oh, well, there’s one person who pays attention to the 10 Commandments, anyway. You had me worried”.
Mind you, I make no guarantees for the state of his blood pressure. (Silly old toot. Can’t even think through to the logical conclusion of his own blitherings).