No one has the full truth

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I have a friend who’s a non-denominational Christian. He believes there is a God, but he picks and chooses the rest of his “ideas”. (He doesn’t call them beliefs, because beliefs are unchangeable and he wants to be open-minded and be able to easier change the ideas to what he sees as the truth.)

He believes there’s no one true religion and that all of the religion holds a bit of the truth (He’s also asked me about those who split from the Catholic church or other Christian denomination…Can it be possible that they are coming closer to the truth? What if there’s a misinterpretation in the Bible now that God is just allowing the whole human race to accept for now?). He doesn’t believe that there can be one religion that’s infallible and true about God and His teachings. He believes that the human race is too flawed for that to occur.

He is comfortable where his beliefs lie and where he stands, he believes it’s His purpose in life to question everything and to be those few religious people who’s not so “devoted” to their beliefs to miss the truth and be less susceptible to follow someone like the anti-Christ.

Believe me, I went up and down everyone of these subjects; but I need help with this. All I can do now is pray and ask for your help on this subject. What can I say and do?

There’s way more to this, but I wanted to make this short and to the point. If you have any questions or want more information, please ask. I’ll reply ASAP.

Thank you and God bless.
 
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crusader4life:
I have a friend who’s a non-denominational Christian. He believes there is a God, but he picks and chooses the rest of his “ideas”. (He doesn’t call them beliefs, because beliefs are unchangeable and he wants to be open-minded and be able to easier change the ideas to what he sees as the truth.)
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Sounds like a "cafeteria Protestant"unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_rolleyes.gifimages.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/13_grin.gif

The Truth is, there IS TRUTH and that can ONLY be found in the CC!!![http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/hyper.gif[’)"]http://unity.enya.com/images/smiles/icon_smile_approve.gif](javascript:insertsmilie(’[^)]("javascript: void(0);)[

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/sly.gif](javascript: void(0)😉
 
Oh boy. Well I have strong feelings on this but I’ll try and keep them modest.

I converted to Catholicism from nothing (read: weak Atheism) a while back for complex reasons. The one thing that I found “offensive” at first was Catholics insisting that there was “no salvation except through the Church.” I came close to rejecting this outright but I have come to my own understanding of what it really means.

As Christ says “I am The Way, the Truth and the Life” or something like that. I don’t read anything else more into that than what it says. You do not have to be Catholic to be saved, or even Christian. It simply means that if you are saved, you are saved through Christ (or the Church). I think that anything rule-wise can be arrived at by right reason and examination of ones own heart and with some guidance from God. To borrow:

True religion must teach that life is filled with joys pleasing to the eye of God, that knowledge without action is empty. All men must see that the teaching of religion by rules and rote is largely a hoax. The proper teaching is recognized with ease. You can know it without fail because it awakens within you that sensations which tells you this is something you’ve always known.

Your friend, however, appears to be a bit of a moral relativist, which I do not agree with. I think that moral relativism eats itself (see CS Lewis). It is also an axiom of my own beliefs that Truth does exist. I do not claim that I know Truth and others do not because that would be in violation of one of my highest principles, the Golden Rule (assuming that you know more than everyone without consulting each of them individually).

I too also believe in questioning everything and it has led me to this point. I don’t think that I could ever accept something without rigorous scrutiny on my own part; to accept things without question, to me, is to commit intellectual suicide.
 
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precious_roy:
Oh boy. Well I have strong feelings on this but I’ll try and keep them modest.

I converted to Catholicism from nothing (read: weak Atheism) a while back for complex reasons. The one thing that I found “offensive” at first was Catholics insisting that there was “no salvation except through the Church.” I came close to rejecting this outright but I have come to my own understanding of what it really means.

As Christ says “I am The Way, the Truth and the Life” or something like that. I don’t read anything else more into that than what it says. You do not have to be Catholic to be saved, or even Christian. It simply means that if you are saved, you are saved through Christ (or the Church). I think that anything rule-wise can be arrived at by right reason and examination of ones own heart and with some guidance from God. To borrow:

True religion must teach that life is filled with joys pleasing to the eye of God, that knowledge without action is empty. All men must see that the teaching of religion by rules and rote is largely a hoax. The proper teaching is recognized with ease. You can know it without fail because it awakens within you that sensations which tells you this is something you’ve always known.

Your friend, however, appears to be a bit of a moral relativist, which I do not agree with. I think that moral relativism eats itself (see CS Lewis). It is also an axiom of my own beliefs that Truth does exist. I do not claim that I know Truth and others do not because that would be in violation of one of my highest principles, the Golden Rule (assuming that you know more than everyone without consulting each of them individually).

I too also believe in questioning everything and it has led me to this point. I don’t think that I could ever accept something without rigorous scrutiny on my own part; to accept things without question, to me, is to commit intellectual suicide.
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You are very wise. Good post!
 
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crusader4life:
He believes there’s no one true religion and that all of the religion holds a bit of the truth (He’s also asked me about those who split from the Catholic church or other Christian denomination…Can it be possible that they are coming closer to the truth? What if there’s a misinterpretation in the Bible now that God is just allowing the whole human race to accept for now?). He doesn’t believe that there can be one religion that’s infallible and true about God and His teachings. He believes that the human race is too flawed for that to occur.
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I would ask him if these assertations are fully true.

If he answers yes, then point out it is possible to know the full truth about something.

If he answers no, ask why you should believe him.

Sounds to me like your friend is saying, “No one has the full truth, except for this statement which is the full truth.”
 
Kay Cee:
I would ask him if these assertations are fully true.

If he answers yes, then point out it is possible to know the full truth about something.

If he answers no, ask why you should believe him.

Sounds to me like your friend is saying, “No one has the full truth, except for this statement which is the full truth.”
Click to expand...
A very good analysis 👍 .

I have found that many people who take the “no full truth” tack are, often unknowingly, making an error in logic. Now it is no doubt true that we humans cannot know (in the sense of fully comprehend) everything about God that there is to know. But that does not mean – as they mistakenly conclude – that we can know nothing about him at all. And what the Church knows of Him is what He has revealed, and She has preserved and guarded, under His mandated protection and guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
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crusader4life:
I have a friend who’s a non-denominational Christian. He believes there is a God, but he picks and chooses the rest of his “ideas”. (He doesn’t call them beliefs, because beliefs are unchangeable and he wants to be open-minded and be able to easier change the ideas to what he sees as the truth.)
Click to expand...
I would praise him for his strong search for the truth. This is a highly commendable trait.
He believes there’s no one true religion and that all of the religion holds a bit of the truth (He’s also asked me about those who split from the Catholic church or other Christian denomination…Can it be possible that they are coming closer to the truth? What if there’s a misinterpretation in the Bible now that God is just allowing the whole human race to accept for now?). He doesn’t believe that there can be one religion that’s infallible and true about God and His teachings. He believes that the human race is too flawed for that to occur.
Click to expand...
The CC does not teach that it knows all the Truth. Only God, in his omniscience, can know everything. These are some things that are left to mystery. In this sense, he is correct that limited humans can not know everything. Since he has accepted God and seems to accept Jesus as Christ, then I would recommend he:

  1. *]read about the early church fathers. He will find they were Catholic.
    *]read a history of the Catholic Church Cardinal Newman said “to be deep in to history is to cease to be Protestant.”
    *]Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church so he can understand exactly what the CC believes and why.
    He is comfortable where his beliefs lie and where he stands, he believes it’s His purpose in life to question everything and to be those few religious people who’s not so “devoted” to their beliefs to miss the truth and be less susceptible to follow someone like the anti-Christ.
    Click to expand...
    I agree with him. I am devoted to God and not my beliefs. When someone is devoted to their own beliefs that raises their own ego above God. If I were to find the CC does not hold, as far as we can understand it, the fullness of Truth then I would cease to be Catholic.
    Believe me, I went up and down everyone of these subjects; but I need help with this. All I can do now is pray and ask for your help on this subject. What can I say and do?

    There’s way more to this, but I wanted to make this short and to the point. If you have any questions or want more information, please ask. I’ll reply ASAP.

    Thank you and God bless.
    Click to expand...
    I will pray for you as well. I suggest you also read the materials above. In addition I recommend Search and Rescue.
 
Yes, yes, I agree that questioning everything is good, and it helps us get closer to the truth. And I understand that no one can understand and know the full truth, because God is infinite and our brains can’t comprehend all the mysteries.

Thank you for helping me…I haven’t yet read all of the comments and suggestions, but when I’m done running around I’ll get back and reply.

Thanks again and God bless.
 
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crusader4life:
I have a friend who’s a non-denominational Christian. He believes there is a God, but he picks and chooses the rest of his “ideas”. (He doesn’t call them beliefs, because beliefs are unchangeable and he wants to be open-minded and be able to easier change the ideas to what he sees as the truth.)

He believes there’s no one true religion and that all of the religion holds a bit of the truth (He’s also asked me about those who split from the Catholic church or other Christian denomination…Can it be possible that they are coming closer to the truth? What if there’s a misinterpretation in the Bible now that God is just allowing the whole human race to accept for now?). He doesn’t believe that there can be one religion that’s infallible and true about God and His teachings. He believes that the human race is too flawed for that to occur.

He is comfortable where his beliefs lie and where he stands, he believes it’s His purpose in life to question everything and to be those few religious people who’s not so “devoted” to their beliefs to miss the truth and be less susceptible to follow someone like the anti-Christ.

Believe me, I went up and down everyone of these subjects; but I need help with this. All I can do now is pray and ask for your help on this subject. What can I say and do?

There’s way more to this, but I wanted to make this short and to the point. If you have any questions or want more information, please ask. I’ll reply ASAP.

Thank you and God bless.
Click to expand...
Either the Catholic Church is the One True Faith, or Christ was a fool or a liar and there is no such thing as Christianity. Can’t have it both ways. The God who created the universe and every living thing knew exactly what was and is in the future. He didn’t say to St Peter “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock…To thee I give the keys of the Kingdom… and the gates of Hell shall never prevail…” just because it was a good soundbite. What does your friend think He meant by these words?

You may have to accept that it’s just because it’s much easier for your friend to go along as he is doing. Not many restrictions on his behaviour, after all. If he’s REALLY interested in questioning, there’s a library-full of information. Regarding the split (insofar as the English Reformation went) you may wish to recommend that he reads a Protestant writer in this field - William Cobbett’s “A History of the Protestant Reformation”. It documents the history of the Reformation in England, and is a blistering indictment of the motives of the founders.
 
The Catholic Church has the “Full Truth”. It is so easy to float like the wind and accept any old thing that comes to mind or suits our fancy. BUT that is exactly how folks get into trouble,

The Church carefully investigates each and every teaching. It has hundreds if not thousands of scholars to interpret scriptures and determine which doctrines are true and are consistent with Christ’s teachings.

It is always mind boggling to me how some folks can claim that the Holy Spirit somehow teaches them personally to know and understand what to believe and how to interpret scriptures on their own. Why do they think they are so perfect or so special that God Almighty gives them and ONLY them the definitive interpretation for scriptures???

Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will guide His Church, NOT each individual, BUT His Church collectively as a group.

SO any yahoo, who comes along and says he has God’s truth all figured out, more than likely is missing out on a whole lot of things. In the absence of Christ’s Church, no one can proclaim such a thing and even come close to the full truth.

Look at the thousands of Christian denominations, they all have one pastor proclaiming their interpretation of scriptures as being the definitive God’s Truth, but even folks in their own congregation will not completely agree with everything that they interpret, and when you balance that with the other churches in the same group making different interpretations of the same passages, you have one huge mess.

Only in the Catholic Church do you have a unified theology of what the Church is all about. And it is Christ’s proclamation that the Holy Spirit will lead His Church, the Holy Catholic Church, that we know that the Church’s teachings are indeed the embodiment of all of God’s Truth.

wc
 
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precious_roy:
Oh boy. Well I have strong feelings on this but I’ll try and keep them modest.

I converted to Catholicism from nothing (read: weak Atheism) a while back for complex reasons. The one thing that I found “offensive” at first was Catholics insisting that there was “no salvation except through the Church.” I came close to rejecting this outright but I have come to my own understanding of what it really means.

As Christ says “I am The Way, the Truth and the Life” or something like that. I don’t read anything else more into that than what it says. You do not have to be Catholic to be saved, or even Christian. It simply means that if you are saved, you are saved through Christ (or the Church). I think that anything rule-wise can be arrived at by right reason and examination of ones own heart and with some guidance from God. To borrow:

True religion must teach that life is filled with joys pleasing to the eye of God, that knowledge without action is empty. All men must see that the teaching of religion by rules and rote is largely a hoax. The proper teaching is recognized with ease. You can know it without fail because it awakens within you that sensations which tells you this is something you’ve always known.

Your friend, however, appears to be a bit of a moral relativist, which I do not agree with. I think that moral relativism eats itself (see CS Lewis). It is also an axiom of my own beliefs that Truth does exist. I do not claim that I know Truth and others do not because that would be in violation of one of my highest principles, the Golden Rule (assuming that you know more than everyone without consulting each of them individually).

I too also believe in questioning everything and it has led me to this point. I don’t think that I could ever accept something without rigorous scrutiny on my own part; to accept things without question, to me, is to commit intellectual suicide.
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Oh so true. He even asked if he has to become a Catholic to be saved. I told him no, but the whole purpose of me pushing him is for him to come to love and know even better and to find full trust and faith in Him…in general, to become a stronger Christian. (I even have a hard time convincing him to stregnthen in his own beliefs or to deepen in knowlege of God.)

I didn’t say this very well, but I’m not trying to force Catholicism down his throat or trying to necessarily convert to Catholicism (even though that would be nice…), I’m mostly just trying to make him understand how vital it is to have a growing relationship with God and to be a true Christian. Instead of being a Christian that just believes in God and does nothing much about it.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

PS. Yes! Question everything!
 
Kay Cee:
I would ask him if these assertations are fully true.

If he answers yes, then point out it is possible to know the full truth about something.

If he answers no, ask why you should believe him.

Sounds to me like your friend is saying, “No one has the full truth, except for this statement which is the full truth.”
Click to expand...
Nice point. Especially the point about is it possible to know the full truth about anything!
 
Gerry Hunter:
A very good analysis 👍 .

I have found that many people who take the “no full truth” tack are, often unknowingly, making an error in logic. Now it is no doubt true that we humans cannot know (in the sense of fully comprehend) everything about God that there is to know. But that does not mean – as they mistakenly conclude – that we can know nothing about him at all. And what the Church knows of Him is what He has revealed, and She has preserved and guarded, under His mandated protection and guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry
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Very nicely put. I tried giving a similar message to him, but I couldn’t articulate it as well as you said it.
 
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Maranatha:
I would praise him for his strong search for the truth. This is a highly commendable trait.
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Oh definitely. I do, but I haven’t told him as often as I should!
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Maranatha:
The CC does not teach that it knows all the Truth. Only God, in his omniscience, can know everything. These are some things that are left to mystery. In this sense, he is correct that limited humans can not know everything. Since he has accepted God and seems to accept Jesus as Christ, then I would recommend he:

  1. *]read about the early church fathers. He will find they were Catholic.
    *]read a history of the Catholic Church Cardinal Newman said “to be deep in to history is to cease to be Protestant.”
    *]Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church so he can understand exactly what the CC believes and why.
Click to expand...

  1. Right, I just couldn’t tell him that point very well.
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    Maranatha:
    I agree with him. I am devoted to God and not my beliefs. When someone is devoted to their own beliefs that raises their own ego above God. If I were to find the CC does not hold, as far as we can understand it, the fullness of Truth then I would cease to be Catholic.
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    That’s right. He probably meant that when he said that. Just the way he said it seem like he were on a wishy washy foundation or on for his own standards and ideas.
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    Maranatha:
    I will pray for you as well. I suggest you also read the materials above. In addition I recommend Search and Rescue.
    Click to expand...
    I shall. Thanks for your insight.
 
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Verity1:
Either the Catholic Church is the One True Faith, or Christ was a fool or a liar and there is no such thing as Christianity. Can’t have it both ways. The God who created the universe and every living thing knew exactly what was and is in the future. He didn’t say to St Peter “Thou art Peter, and upon this rock…To thee I give the keys of the Kingdom… and the gates of Hell shall never prevail…” just because it was a good soundbite. What does your friend think He meant by these words?

You may have to accept that it’s just because it’s much easier for your friend to go along as he is doing. Not many restrictions on his behaviour, after all. If he’s REALLY interested in questioning, there’s a library-full of information. Regarding the split (insofar as the English Reformation went) you may wish to recommend that he reads a Protestant writer in this field - William Cobbett’s “A History of the Protestant Reformation”. It documents the history of the Reformation in England, and is a blistering indictment of the motives of the founders.
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Here’s another twist, I may have mentioned this before, but Bible quotes doesn’t mean a whole lot to him. (kinda odd for a Christian) I would mention points like this, but he’s not always willing to fall back on Bible quotes because the human race is so flawed that it most likely messed it up…even this very story with Jesus and Peter. I can’t get around this arguement because I ask several other questions that go unanswered. (What’s the purpose of the Bible then if it’s almost useless? Why would God mislead the human race like that? How else did we come to know God but through human prophets and Christ himself…etc.) It makes him think for a little, but it doesn’t make him “see”. I don’t know how I can show him my perspective properly.

That’s partically why he doesn’t go through the library for information, because he doesn’t want to be mislead away from the truth and into another human twisted belief. He just doesn’t trust a lot of human perspectives on God, he relies on himself and any proof for that.

He does mention that perhaps he’s flawed too in his ways and beliefs because he’s human, but he needs evidence before he can consider changing his beliefs. (Which is good)
 
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wcknight:
The Catholic Church has the “Full Truth”. It is so easy to float like the wind and accept any old thing that comes to mind or suits our fancy. BUT that is exactly how folks get into trouble,

The Church carefully investigates each and every teaching. It has hundreds if not thousands of scholars to interpret scriptures and determine which doctrines are true and are consistent with Christ’s teachings.

It is always mind boggling to me how some folks can claim that the Holy Spirit somehow teaches them personally to know and understand what to believe and how to interpret scriptures on their own. Why do they think they are so perfect or so special that God Almighty gives them and ONLY them the definitive interpretation for scriptures???

Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will guide His Church, NOT each individual, BUT His Church collectively as a group.

SO any yahoo, who comes along and says he has God’s truth all figured out, more than likely is missing out on a whole lot of things. In the absence of Christ’s Church, no one can proclaim such a thing and even come close to the full truth.

Look at the thousands of Christian denominations, they all have one pastor proclaiming their interpretation of scriptures as being the definitive God’s Truth, but even folks in their own congregation will not completely agree with everything that they interpret, and when you balance that with the other churches in the same group making different interpretations of the same passages, you have one huge mess.

Only in the Catholic Church do you have a unified theology of what the Church is all about. And it is Christ’s proclamation that the Holy Spirit will lead His Church, the Holy Catholic Church, that we know that the Church’s teachings are indeed the embodiment of all of God’s Truth.

wc
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Bene, bene! Very good point. :clapping:

I’m going to have to remember that.
 
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crusader4life:
I have a friend who’s a non-denominational Christian. He believes there is a God, but he picks and chooses the rest of his “ideas”. (He doesn’t call them beliefs, because beliefs are unchangeable and he wants to be open-minded and be able to easier change the ideas to what he sees as the truth.)
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Peace be with you!

That thing about “ideas” is a line from the movie Dogma, written by Kevin Smith and spoken by Chris Rock. Does he really believe that God only gave us some “ideas”? That doesn’t make sense. God has made His will known to us; He hasn’t simply “put us on the right path”, so to speak. Did Jesus say “Blessed are those who believe without seeing” or did he say “Blessed are those who have a pretty good idea without seeing”?

In Christ,
Rand
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Peace be with you!

That thing about “ideas” is a line from the movie Dogma, written by Kevin Smith and spoken by Chris Rock. Does he really believe that God only gave us some “ideas”? That doesn’t make sense. God has made His will known to us; He hasn’t simply “put us on the right path”, so to speak. Did Jesus say “Blessed are those who believe without seeing” or did he say “Blessed are those who have a pretty good idea without seeing”?

In Christ,
Rand
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Wow! I didn’t realize that! The movie Dogma is where he got some of his train of thought. (I never seen it, but I should have asked about the sources anyway).

I should have remembered mentioned the beatitudes! Thanks for mentioning it, I’m glad you did.
 
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crusader4life:
Wow! I didn’t realize that! The movie Dogma is where he got some of his train of thought. (I never seen it, but I should have asked about the sources anyway).

I should have remembered mentioned the beatitudes! Thanks for mentioning it, I’m glad you did.
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Peace be with you!

I was actually referring to the passage in John 20 where Jesus tells Thomas “Blessed are they that have not seen and have believed.” (John 20:29) But the Beatitudes are great too. They’re very beautiful and when I read them they really make me think, so they would probably be pretty good to show him too.

In Christ,
Rand
 
“No one has the full truth.”

Are you sure that’s fully true?

If no one has the full truth, then your assertion that no one has the full truth must be regarded as fully false. Isn’t that true?
 
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