No one is singing!

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It is OK. It is generally frowned upon for Catholics to sing and the Vatican is considering forbidding it altogether in their next Ecumenical Council. Read the Church documents if you don’t believe me. They are very clear that singing is an undesirable activity, especially in a sacred space.

So those who are refusing to sing now are merely ahead of the curve. It would be much better if all music were removed from liturgy altogether! It’s such a hindrance to worship.
 
I thought of another reason
the tempo is so slow it is impossible to sing without a deep breath after almost every word
 
Musical selections and the fact that you have a “band” may form huge parts of the problem. Lamentably, a lot of what is in Spirit and Song is not necessarily suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s not even meant for congregational singing, as much as OCP would like for folks to believe.

Whenever our choir does not sing and the parochial vicar chooses the music, he selects traditional hymns. Everyone sings. However, when the “praise and worship” choir sings, no one sings.

Bear in mind, too, that Pope Benedict wrote some very telling words about the quality of musical selection:
Liturgical song
  1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. **Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). **Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).
I know, from experience, when I have had to serve as cantor for that Mass (when the choir does not show up) and I’ve chosen proper music (traditional hymns), just about everyone sings.
 
I think it comes down to sloth. I believe that more and more Catholics view the Mass as a required process they have to endure every Sunday morning and not the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ to His Father.

They want to get it done as quickly as possible with as little effort as necessary. Ever hear any encouragement from a priest for the faithful to sing? I can’t remember ever hearing that. Singing time is also a prime opportunity to day-dream about breakfast or how to play the first hole at the country club in 46 minutes plus drive time.
Sad but true!
 
It is OK. It is generally frowned upon for Catholics to sing and the Vatican is considering forbidding it altogether in their next Ecumenical Council. Read the Church documents if you don’t believe me. They are very clear that singing is an undesirable activity, especially in a sacred space.

So those who are refusing to sing now are merely ahead of the curve. It would be much better if all music were removed from liturgy altogether! It’s such a hindrance to worship.
Really! If that’s true I don’t agree. I think that being in unison, whether it’s reciting the Nicene creed or singing or praying the Lord’s Prayer, is a big part of fellowship and a big part of going to any church. If it’s only about the Eucharist, Mass could be cut to 15 minutes, or communion could be made at a drive-thru window.

I wonder what Cardinal Arinze would say about singing in church. I know he doesn’t condone dance as part of worship for US or European Catholics, although apparently he’s okay with it in the African and Asian services. When I heard him say that I thought, is he insinuating that white people can’t dance?:rolleyes:
 
Musical selections and the fact that you have a “band” may form huge parts of the problem. Lamentably, a lot of what is in Spirit and Song is not necessarily suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s not even meant for congregational singing, as much as OCP would like for folks to believe.

Whenever our choir does not sing and the parochial vicar chooses the music, he selects traditional hymns. Everyone sings. However, when the “praise and worship” choir sings, no one sings.

Bear in mind, too, that Pope Benedict wrote some very telling words about the quality of musical selection:

I know, from experience, when I have had to serve as cantor for that Mass (when the choir does not show up) and I’ve chosen proper music (traditional hymns), just about everyone sings.
Thanks for posting this! If Pope Benedict XVI says that music is necessary and important, that’s enough.
I do see your point about some of the music being unfamiliar to the congregation. I think that if a hymnal of traditional music is provided, and these songs become familiar over a number of Sundays, more people might sing. Personally, I like the Kyrie and the Ave Gloriosa Mater and the Rex Tremdae, even the Dies Irae, although of course the last one was removed by Vatican II for being too Old Testament/ angry God, or something.
 
In addition to sloth of the faithful, I can think of two other reasons that keep people from singing.

First, pastors/celebrants would couldn’t care any less about the singing/music at Mass.

Second, ignorant/arrogant “music ministers” who make horrible choices in these vauums. The “G-chant or nothing” crowd. Those that are quick to remind those of us in the pews just how stupid and unworthy we are. Remaining silent is a form of protest for a great many I would guess.
 
Really! If that’s true I don’t agree. I think that being in unison, whether it’s reciting the Nicene creed or singing or praying the Lord’s Prayer, is a big part of fellowship and a big part of going to any church. If it’s only about the Eucharist, Mass could be cut to 15 minutes, or communion could be made at a drive-thru window.

I wonder what Cardinal Arinze would say about singing in church. I know he doesn’t condone dance as part of worship for US or European Catholics, although apparently he’s okay with it in the African and Asian services. When I heard him say that I thought, is he insinuating that white people can’t dance?:rolleyes:
I believe you responded to a joke… 😉
 
I don’t sing because
a) the song is too high or low so I have to be uncomfortably out of my register
b) the song is unfamiliar and no aide has been provided, or the hymn number has not even been announced
c) the song is heretical in lyric so I refuse to mouth the words
d) the choir and musicians are so out of sync I can’t follow either one
e) I am in the throes of something like asthma or sinus infection and can’t sing w/o coughing
Sorry, I’m confused by c, above. Have you actually encountered heretical songs at Mass? Can you give me an example?
 
It is OK. It is generally frowned upon for Catholics to sing and the Vatican is considering forbidding it altogether in their next Ecumenical Council. Read the Church documents if you don’t believe me. They are very clear that singing is an undesirable activity, especially in a sacred space.

So those who are refusing to sing now are merely ahead of the curve. It would be much better if all music were removed from liturgy altogether! It’s such a hindrance to worship.
I’m sorry, I really find that hard to believe. Can you cite some church documents that say that?

Singing is not a hindrance to worship, *it is worship! *
 
Sorry, I’m confused by c, above. Have you actually encountered heretical songs at Mass? Can you give me an example?
oh yeah
just do a search on this forum we have whole threads on the topic
🍿
 
Why don’t Catholics sing? Aside from having a whole book written about it, the reasons are pretty simple:

MOST Masses have absolute dreck for music - silly, stupid or heretical lyrics with unsingable, syncopated, unfamiliar, happy-clappy, bongo-banging, ill-played, off tempo-ed music without the 4 parts (assuming you get any music at all to follow) meaning one group will find it impossible to sing. PW music - can’t stand it. Folk Mass - can’t stand it. Almost uniformly adolescent, tasteless and bad.

Not too long back went to Mass at a neighboring Church. “Music” program was handed out. Not one familiar song. Not one note anywhere on the pages. Just the lyrics. Right before the procession the priest exhorts all to “really sing out.” The music was a collection of some sort of syncopated irregular tunes. NO One - not even the “really sing out” priest - sang except for the “choir” which was clearly an untrained group of aged hippies without an ear among them.

Unfortunately, some do sing: the “choir” which in my experience is 85% of the time dreadful. Poor St. Augustine must be spinning in his grave every time someone trots out that old chestnut of praying twice. I assure you I often pray twice when there is singing: (1) to kill the choir; and (2) for forgiveness for praying to kill the choir 😃

The real shame is a lot of the most beautiful music ever written was written for the Mass - but that was jettisoned to be “relevant” (and apparently bad, tasteless and heretical.)
 
I think it comes down to sloth. I believe that more and more Catholics view the Mass as a required process they have to endure every Sunday morning and not the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus Christ to His Father.

They want to get it done as quickly as possible with as little effort as necessary. Ever hear any encouragement from a priest for the faithful to sing? I can’t remember ever hearing that. Singing time is also a prime opportunity to day-dream about breakfast or how to play the first hole at the country club in 46 minutes plus drive time.
You may be onto something here. Maybe this explains why over 70% of Catholics used to attend Mass every Sunday morning when they had Masses every hour on the hour, heard gospel-related sermons, learned their Catechism in school or from their kids, and heard less noise (fewer distractions) in Church. And this was criticized for having no participation.
 
Looking around while our choir and band were leading the hymns yesterday at Mass, I was struck by how few people were singing! I like to sing, so it’s no problem for me, and I understand that some of the music can be tricky, but even where the customary hymns are given at the customary places, most people just stare straight ahead. Do they feel awkward? I mean, c’mon, lift a joyful voice unto the Lord! Nobody cares if you’re Andrea Bocelli or Sarah Brightman or not, and even the priests are up there singing along half the time. What gives?:eek:

In most churches, this is the designated point. This is why I do not believe in cantors; they’re suppose to lead the singing, but the congregation sits back and lets the cantor do all of the singing. In my own CHurch, this is what happens. They assue a cantor should do all of the singing.

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU
 

In most churches, this is the designated point. This is why I do not believe in cantors; they’re suppose to lead the singing, but the congregation sits back and lets the cantor do all of the singing. In my own CHurch, this is what happens. They assue a cantor should do all of the singing.

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU
Actually, in my case, the faithful do manage to sing. I was asked by the celebrant to step in as cantor to lead the singing for the Solemnity of Corpus Christi. I chose traditional hymns that the faithful knew and they sang. What I did was start the songs and then step back a little so that they could sing.

The only time that I sang by myself was last weekend, when my dad’s pastor had asked me to help out and then wanted me to sing something brief to cover his entrance from the sacristy to the sanctuary (he is recovering from surgery). I exercised the first option in the GIRM and chanted the Simple English Proper for the 17th Sunday of Ordinary Time. It was long enough to cover his entrance and he was grateful. For Communion, I chanted the Communion SEP and then led into a hymn and invited the faithful to sing.

If done correctly, cantors can and do work.
 
I like to sing and usually always do, other than being sick, the main reason I might not sing is because I don’t know the song (I really can’t read music so if I don’t know the “tune” I don’t know what note is coming next even if I know the word). The worst part is when each week there are new/unfamiliar songs. I tend to think this is true of most people because it seems like more people do sing when it’s a familiar song like Faith or Our Fathers or Holy, Holy, Holy or Ave Maria. And when less people sing, those who know the tune, but are self conscious, sing less or quieter.

I think more people would sing if more traditional or familiar songs were sung. The people who know them would join in and the self conscious about their voices would join in or sing louder since everyone else is singing and their voice wouldn’t stand out as much.
 
Poor St. Augustine must be spinning in his grave every time someone trots out that old chestnut of praying twice. I assure you I often pray twice when there is singing: (1) to kill the choir; and (2) for forgiveness for praying to kill the choir 😃
He is frequently misquoted here. You are forgetting the whole quote:

One who sings well prays twice.
 
My thoughts on the matter.

Without exception, every individual Catholic reserves the right to himself or herself to stand quietly in prayer, knowing full well that whether or not he or she sings makes no difference to the graces being offered at the Mass. We are free to participate externally or internally based on our own desires.

The music is part of the liturgy, integral and native to it. The people are not making it. It is not generated by us. They can be part of it but it is not their primary responsibility. And when they sing, it is not to reinforce their perception of membership in a community. It is to more fully participate in sacred actions taking place in a liturgical manner. It comes from within the structure of the liturgy and is not imposed from without. It does not come from the people. It comes from the prayer in which the people are invited, but not required, to participate. You can issue all the proclamations you want to. You can yell and demand. But in the end, this Catholic sense of the role of the people’s song will not change.

Here is the controversial claim that I would like to make: there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, the people might be more correct here than their pundits who are always denouncing them. And if the people ever do relent and start singing like Baptists, within the current parish culture I know, the new ethos could come at the expense of the primary focus of the Roman Rite. The Catholic ritual is not people based or people centered. It is not given by the community as a gift each to other. It is a gift from God that we offer back to God, something we receive humbly as a blessing and an occasion of grace as we offer our lives back to God in sacrifice.

This is why the hymn—which I define here in the common usage as a metrically divided, melodically strophic song with rhyming vernacular text—has no traditional place in Catholic liturgy, particularly in not Mass. (I’m completely leaving out Office hymnody that does not fit my definitions for this piece.) Even the studies tracking the use of hymns in Catholic Mass find sources for anything like the modern hymn in the post-Trent age, influenced by the growing use of hymnody in Protestant worship. Before that, it was unknown.
 
First I want to make some comments about the assertation that “the music is too high.”

Back when I first started getting involved with CAF, I came across this complaint often in music threads, and also heard it from parishioners in my home parish and other parishes where I play piano for Mass.

So I sat down and did a study.

I took ten “contemporary” Catholic hymns and ten “traditional” Catholic hymns out of the missallette.

Contemporary included hymns like “I Am The Bread of Life,” “Here I Am, Lord,” “Gather Us In,” etc.

Traditional included hymns like “Holy God We Praise Thy Name,” " Crown Him With Many Crowns," “Immaculate Mary,” etc.

What I discovered is that the TRADITIONAL hymns had more HIGH notes and phrases than the contemporary hymns.

Take a look for yourself next time you have a few minutes after Mass.

As for chant, from what I understand, the cantor can begin a chant in any key, so in theory, chant should be easier for many people to sing because it should be sung in a more “middle range.” This really places a burden on the cantor to begin any chant in a comfortable key. However, for many cantors who are trained musicians, the higher ranges are very comfortable for them, so I suspect that many parishioners will continue to have difficulty hitting the high notes even in chant. I’m thinking that a wise cantor will bring a pitch pipe along, and discreetly find their pitch before beginning any chant. It would be a kindness to the congregation.

Here is my take. The reason the music is too high is because most people in the U.S. have not been taught how to sing properly.

Yes, people need to learn how to sing properly.

But in many cities and towns (not all), music education is abysmal.

In an effort to try to improve test scores in math, reading, and writing, many school districts have drastically defunded the arts.

Also, because of various cultural factors, many music teachers don’t even try to teach children how to read music, how to sing, etc. because it’s “too hard” and children become easily bored with such drill.

Finally, in a misguided attempt to be more “inclusive” of various cultures, many music classes are nothing more than ethnic sing-a-longs, and much of the music is American street music played from a CD player, and done with more “choreography” than melody and singing.

Before we condemn our schools, though, we need to take a look at our households. In many homes, the only music ever played is pop music, either rock/pop or country/pop. Neither of these music styles is conducive to helping an infant or small child develop a musical ear. What I and other musicians are seeing when we work with children is an immense number of children who cannot hear or sing a melody. They simply cannot sing.

BUT…before we condemn the households who play pop music all day long, we need to realize that those who play classical music all day long are not really helping their children either. The complexities of classical music make it very difficult for babies and tiny children to pick out a melody. So even these children do NOT learn how to sing.

The way to develop a musical ear in children is to guard their musical development from birth. Babies and tiny children should hear mainly MONOPHONIC music–one voice. This can be Mommy’s voice, Daddy’s voice, another relative’s voice. It can be a piano with ONE note melodies. It can be ONE guitar (no drums, no bass, no fiddle, etc.). It can be ONE violin–excellent instrument for little ones to hear!

And this ONE voice needs to sing STRONG melodies. One fun game to play with little ones is to sing a few notes and then ask the child to sing it back. When they are little, all they will do is scream it back–you often hear little ones doing this at Mass during the music–they are “singing along!” (Cute.)

But if you keep playing the “game,” eventually the child will learn to match your pitch and sing back to you.

As the child gets older, more complex music (polyphonic) can be added to their musical repertoire. But again, we need to GUARD young children from being immersed in any kind of complex music until they are able to sing strong melodies and match pitches. Introducing too much complexity will muddy their musical ears and make it harder for them to hear the pitches. That’s what makes a monotone or a tone-deaf child and eventually, a tone-deaf adult.

There is much more that I can add, but that’s another thread. The gist of it is, we Americans simply don’t know how to sing anymore.
 
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