No Pope

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piouswoman said:
There is no such thing as being a “member” of the SSPX, I am a traditional Roman Catholic that assists at the Holy Mass at an SSPX chapel.
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PW, do you believe in the truths of the Holy Roman Catholic Chruch as instituted by Christ which he passed into safe keeping through the hands of His Apostles? Do you believe St. Peter was the “rock”, the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church? Do you believe the power of Christ has been handed down through the centuries through the head, the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church in declaring doctrine, faith and morals? Do you believe the Holy Spirit has the power to oversee His church and keep it free from error in doctrine, faith and morals? If you believe this, why are you attending an SSPX chapel for support in your beliefs? Why not a TLM Mass, why not become a member of Opus Dei? It seems you could rest easier in conscience by being faithful to the above faith and a legitimate society than a divisive group such as SSPX.
 
JReducation said:
I have read your posts. But the one on the SSPX third order threw me off.

I’m sorry if I misread that particular post.

On another note, welcome to the family.

JR 🙂
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Well, I have learned a little something about the SSPX in my time, but not out of support from them I can assure you.
 
elts1956 said:
PW, do you believe in the truths of the Holy Roman Catholic Chruch as instituted by Christ which he passed into safe keeping through the hands of His Apostles? Do you believe St. Peter was the “rock”, the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church? Do you believe the power of Christ has been handed down through the centuries through the head, the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church in declaring doctrine, faith and morals? Do you believe the Holy Spirit has the power to oversee His church and keep it free from error in doctrine, faith and morals? If you believe this, why are you attending an SSPX chapel for support in your beliefs? Why not a TLM Mass, why not become a member of Opus Dei? It seems you could rest easier in conscience by being faithful to the above faith and a legitimate society than a divisive group such as SSPX.
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Elt…I believe all of the things you asked. When did I ever deny it? When has the SSPX ever denied that they hold those beliefs? Never, dear Elt.
What I do not believe however is that the Holy Ghost was with the Second Vatican Council, and the reason is, that the Holy Ghost was not convoked. I have read extensively on the Council and it is fascinating how it was literally hijacked by the progressives. You have only to look at the bad fruits of Vatican II to see that it is gravely wrong to assume the Holy Ghost could of been with the Council and produced such evil results.
On another note…I wouldn’t touch Opus Dei with a ten foot pole. My conscience is crystal clear because I hold fast to Tradition, and refuse to follow the teachings of those who are in grave error.

I suggest you read: The Rhine Flows into the Tiber by Father Ralph Wiltgen, S.V.D.
 
piouswoman said:
Elt…I believe all of the things you asked. When did I ever deny it? When has the SSPX ever denied that they hold those beliefs? Never, dear Elt.
What I do not believe however is that the Holy Ghost was with the Second Vatican Council, and the reason is, that the Holy Ghost was not convoked. I have read extensively on the Council and it is fascinating how it was literally hijacked by the progressives. You have only to look at the bad fruits of Vatican II to see that it is gravely wrong to assume the Holy Ghost could of been with the Council and produced such evil results.
On another note…I wouldn’t touch Opus Dei with a ten foot pole. My conscience is crystal clear because I hold fast to Tradition, and refuse to follow the teachings of those who are in grave error.

I suggest you read: The Rhine Flows into the Tiber by Father Ralph Wiltgen, S.V.D.
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Two questions:
  1. If Opus Dei is in such serious error, how did Fr. Balaquer get canonized? You can’t get canonized for teaching heresy or error.
  2. How do those who attend SSPX get absolution from priests who do not have the power to absolve? This has nothing to do with excommunication, it has to do with faculties that they do not have. They were never granted by the competent ecclesiastical authority. To this day, these faculties have been witheld by order of the Holy Father and Pope Benedict has not recinded those orders.
JR 🙂
 
pnewton said:
Is this priest a sedevacntist? Does he address the issue of a papal vacancy in it?
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No.

The Rev. Ralph Michael Wiltgen, S.V.D., was born in Chicago, Illinois on December 17, 1921. He joined the Divine Word Missionaries in 1938, was ordained a Roman Catholic priest in 1950, and received his doctorate in Mission Science in Rome in 1953. After serving as National publicity director for his order in the United States and as international publicity director in Rome, Father Wiltgen founded during Vatican II an independent and multilingual Council News Service, which was published in 6 languages and which had over 3,000 subscribers in 108 countries.

Close contacts with the Council Fathers and *periti *(experts) led to his writing The Rhine Flows into the Tiber, a history of Vatican II which has been published in English, French, Dutch, and will soon be published in German. More than 160 publications in 22 countries have reviewed this book.

You can order it here:
tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/26/
or here:
catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/10640.html
or here:
amazon.com/Rhine-Flows-Tiber-Ralph-Wiltgen/dp/0895551861
 
piouswoman said:
No.
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Then what does any anything he says have to do with the topic? Vatican II and all the “evil” that came from it is not the topic here . I guess SSPX folk don’t believe rules apply to them, or else they wouldn’t be SSPX, but promoting a single-minded agenda is against the stated rules.
 
piouswoman said:
Elt…I believe all of the things you asked. When did I ever deny it? When has the SSPX ever denied that they hold those beliefs? Never, dear Elt.
What I do not believe however is that the Holy Ghost was with the Second Vatican Council, and the reason is, that the Holy Ghost was not convoked. I have read extensively on the Council and it is fascinating how it was literally hijacked by the progressives. You have only to look at the bad fruits of Vatican II to see that it is gravely wrong to assume the Holy Ghost could of been with the Council and produced such evil results.
On another note…I wouldn’t touch Opus Dei with a ten foot pole. My conscience is crystal clear because I hold fast to Tradition, and refuse to follow the teachings of those who are in grave error.

I suggest you read: The Rhine Flows into the Tiber by Father Ralph Wiltgen, S.V.D.
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It’s troubling and baffling that you’re saying that “the Holy Spirit was not convoked” since that statement has no meaning in theology as I understand it. Are you meaning to say that the Council Fathers “forgot” to “invoke the Holy Spirit” in their prayers? If that’s what you meant to say then I have to respond that such thinking is so far outside the reality of common prayer that I must object to your statement as an accusation/conclusion created out of nothing.
 
JReducation said:
Two questions:
  1. If Opus Dei is in such serious error, how did Fr. Balaquer get canonized? You can’t get canonized for teaching heresy or error.
  2. How do those who attend SSPX get absolution from priests who do not have the power to absolve? This has nothing to do with excommunication, it has to do with faculties that they do not have. They were never granted by the competent ecclesiastical authority. To this day, these faculties have been witheld by order of the Holy Father and Pope Benedict has not recinded those orders.
JR 🙂
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Actually - both St Augustine and Aquinas technically taught error, namely that Mary wasn’t Immaculately Conceived. The canonisation of a Saint is a recognition of their heroic virtue but it isn’t an imprimatur on everything they said or taught.
 
piouswoman said:
Elt…I believe all of the things you asked. When did I ever deny it? When has the SSPX ever denied that they hold those beliefs? Never, dear Elt.
What I do not believe however is that the Holy Ghost was with the Second Vatican Council, and the reason is, that the Holy Ghost was not convoked. I have read extensively on the Council and it is fascinating how it was literally hijacked by the progressives. You have only to look at the bad fruits of Vatican II to see that it is gravely wrong to assume the Holy Ghost could of been with the Council and produced such evil results.
On another note…I wouldn’t touch Opus Dei with a ten foot pole. My conscience is crystal clear because I hold fast to Tradition, and refuse to follow the teachings of those who are in grave error.

I suggest you read: The Rhine Flows into the Tiber by Father Ralph Wiltgen, S.V.D.
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If you remember correctly both sessions of the Council began with a mass to the Holy Spirit presided by the Pope, first by John XXIII and the second invocation by Paul VI.

Now, we have another problem, if the Council is so evil, then John XXIII who called for the council was knowingly in great error. How do you explain his beatification?

If his sucessors were also in such grave error, they did canonize many saints between Paul VI and John Paul II, were those canonizations and beatifications also an error?

John Paul II addressed the issue of the ordiantion of women. Was that an error?

Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have addressed the abortion, artifical birth control and same sex marriage questions, are those also in error?

Benedict also addressed the sex abuse scandal head on and said that the Chuch felt shame. What that an error?

John Paul II apologized to the Jews for the massive murders that were committed against them. Was than an error?

When you go to confession to an SSPX priest who does not have the power to absolve your sins, aren’t you in error?

JR 🙂
 
catharina said:
It’s troubling and baffling that you’re saying that “the Holy Spirit was not convoked” since that statement has no meaning in theology as I understand it. Are you meaning to say that the Council Fathers “forgot” to “invoke the Holy Spirit” in their prayers? If that’s what you meant to say then I have to respond that such thinking is so far outside the reality of common prayer that I must object to your statement as an accusation/conclusion created out of nothing.
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Vatican II was a **pastoral **Council…

Because pastoral pronouncements are neither “true” nor “false”, and because they must be expressed in language that is vague and ambiguous, they cannot be the subject of infallibility. Thus it follows that the Holy Ghost simply cannot be solemnly invoked at a strictly pastoral Council, because the pastoral pronouncements could not be infallible anyway. All pastoral pronouncements, even those of Ecumenical Councils which are partly doctrinal and partly pastoral, form part of the Church’s day to day Ordinary Magisterium. Thus, what is taught in a pastoral pronouncement is not assured to be infallible.

It is a consequence of the Church’s infallibility that the doctrine contained in any new teaching must not contradict doctrine that had previously been taught “always and everywhere” in the Church. If a new “teaching” does contradict what was taught before, then the new teaching is obviously not infallible. This is confirmed by the infallible proclamation of Vatican Council I on July 18, 1870:

geocities.com/catholic_profide/renew2.html
 
LilyM said:
Actually - both St Augustine and Aquinas technically taught error, namely that Mary wasn’t Immaculately Conceived. The canonisation of a Saint is a recognition of their heroic virtue but it isn’t an imprimatur on everything they said or taught.
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Both Augustine and Aquinas were canonized for their holiness, but hey were declared Doctors of the Church for their inerrant theology. That’s the only way that you can become a Doctor of the Church.

They did not teach against a Church doctrine. That would be error.

They did not support the Immaculate Conception theology, but it was not a doctrine. It was on the table and a matter of debate. This is not error.

This was a judgement call that they made based on the reason that they had available to them at the time.

Error is to go against Church teaching. Giving an opinion that turns our to be mistaken is not what the Church calls error.

We have to make sure that we use the same language as the Church. Error means deliberate distortion of the truth.

A mistaken opinion because one lacks enough information is a neutral act. It is neither good nor bad.

Therefore, the positions of Augustine and Aquinas in their writings was neutral as far as the Church is concerned. That’s why they are Doctors. Because their theology is error free. It does not distort the truth. It may have incomplete answers, that’s not the same as a deliberate attempt to distort truth.

There is no error. There is simply a lack of knowledge on their part. This is not a sin.

JR 🙂
 
catharina said:
It’s troubling and baffling that you’re saying that “the Holy Spirit was not convoked” since that statement has no meaning in theology as I understand it.
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It means that they prayed, “E Nomini Patri, E fili, …er… where were we?”
 
Piuswoman, I and many others are still holding you in prayer.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
podger said:
HI everyone.

There was a prediction by someone, I don’t remember who but anyway there was to be no pope for a period of time.

Is it possible that these past many years there hasn’t been, that the Bishops have mainly been running the show.

God Bless Kathy
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That time is not yet here.

Pope Bendict XVI is the “Gloriae Olivae”. And may he reign for many years.

After him will be “Petrus Romanus”. The period of which you speak may be after this pope.

Gospa Mir.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
Piuswoman, I and many others are still holding you in prayer.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Consider that I am also holding you and others in prayer, as well as the pope and the bishops that they may abandon that which is contrary to the Traditional teachings of the Catholic Church and return to full Catholic Doctrine.

God bless,
Piouswoman
 
I’m not sure how people arrive at the conclusion that the Holy Spirit was not invoked for Vatican II.

Both sessions,the one begun by John XXIII and the second one begun by Paul VI began with a period several days of prayer to the Holy Spirit which concluded with a mass to the Holy Spirit before the meetings begun.

There are many ways of invoking the Holy Spirit.

Even in the letter that went out from John XXIII he invokes the bishops of the world to unite under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We should read his biographies. Not the Holy Spirit’s biography, John XXIII’s

JR 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I’m not sure how people arrive at the conclusion that the Holy Spirit was not invoked for Vatican II.

Both sessions,the one begun by John XXIII and the second one begun by Paul VI began with a period several days of prayer to the Holy Spirit which concluded with a mass to the Holy Spirit before the meetings begun.

There are many ways of invoking the Holy Spirit.

Even in the letter that went out from John XXIII he invokes the bishops of the world to unite under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We should read his biographies. Not the Holy Spirit’s biography, John XXIII’s

JR 🙂
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PW has not bothered to repeat her claim. That’s good.
 
piouswoman said:
Consider that I am also holding you and others in prayer, as well as the pope and the bishops that they may abandon that which is contrary to the Traditional teachings of the Catholic Church and return to full Catholic Doctrine.

God bless,
Piouswoman
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Do you realize the intellectual pride that such a statement takes. That, when the popes and Magisterium are guided by the Holy Spirit, and neither you, nor the excommunicated bishop are.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
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