No Priest at Church yesterday - was it still Mass?

[carol_marie]

So we were out of town for the weekend but we found a Catholic Church that had mass at 4pm. When we get there the church was filled and someone was playing music. After awhile a man (deacon?) announces that the Priest that was scheduled to say mass that day will not be coming. He said that someone was driving back home to get a prayer book so we should sit tight. After a short bit, they did the readings for the day, said the prayers, we stood & said the Our Father and then they did communion (without the wine of course.) Afterwards they said one more prayer, some announcements and then everyone got up and left. The whole thing lasted about 15 minutes. My question… did that fufill our Sunday obligation?

 

[NotWorthy]

Did you check with the people at the Church. I bet it is. If it was me, though, I would have made every attempt to make it to Mass later that evening or Sunday morning.

NotWorthy

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

carol marie:

So we were out of town for the weekend but we found a Catholic Church that had mass at 4pm. When we get there the church was filled and someone was playing music. After awhile a man (deacon?) announces that the Priest that was scheduled to say mass that day will not be coming. He said that someone was driving back home to get a prayer book so we should sit tight. After a short bit, they did the readings for the day, said the prayers, we stood & said the Our Father and then they did communion (without the wine of course.) Afterwards they said one more prayer, some announcements and then everyone got up and left. The whole thing lasted about 15 minutes. My question… did that fufill our Sunday obligation?

If this was Sunday your Sunday Obligation would automatically be excused because there was no Mass available for you to attend if this was the only Mass.

I assume that you mean 4 pm Saturday evening then everyone would have been obligated to return on Sunday morning for Mass.

The person should have made an announcement that Fr. was not going to be there that we would have a Communion service that did NOT satisfy the Sunday obligation and that everyone was expected back on Sunday morning for Mass.

 

[banjo]

carol marie:

So we were out of town for the weekend but we found a Catholic Church that had mass at 4pm. When we get there the church was filled and someone was playing music. After awhile a man (deacon?) announces that the Priest that was scheduled to say mass that day will not be coming. He said that someone was driving back home to get a prayer book so we should sit tight. After a short bit, they did the readings for the day, said the prayers, we stood & said the Our Father and then they did communion (without the wine of course.) Afterwards they said one more prayer, some announcements and then everyone got up and left. The whole thing lasted about 15 minutes. My question… did that fufill our Sunday obligation?

On fulfilling the Sunday obligation you can check the CCC 2180 and following. The other details you might discuss with your parish priest.

In Christ,

 

[carol_marie]

banjo:

On fulfilling the Sunday obligation you can check the CCC 2180 and following. The other details you might discuss with your parish priest.

In Christ,

How do I discuss it? Do I just call him? I’m a bit worried because we were traveling (w/ 4 kids & a dog & a camper) and we weren’t able to attend today because of other obligations. We knew this in advance which is why we (tried) to go on Saturday night. But I’d hate the thought that I could be in a state of sin for having missed mass?
(although I honestly don’t feel that it was our fault since we tried to go… we even brought along another family who aren’t Catholic & so we were disappointed that the whole thing was so odd…)

 

[netmilsmom]

carol marie:

How do I discuss it? Do I just call him? I’m a bit worried because we were traveling (w/ 4 kids & a dog & a camper) and we weren’t able to attend today because of other obligations. We knew this in advance which is why we (tried) to go on Saturday night. But I’d hate the thought that I could be in a state of sin for having missed mass?
(although I honestly don’t feel that it was our fault since we tried to go… we even brought along another family who aren’t Catholic & so we were disappointed that the whole thing was so odd…)

I thought that if you made an honest effort and were traveling, that one did not sin by not making mass. I think you put in an honest effort.

Try just hitting the confessional and telling your priest there. If it is no sin, no problem. If it is, you are forgiven. And please keep us informed about what he said! We camp a lot!

 

[FrCorey]

they could have done one of the rites called, celebrations in the absence of a priest.

 

[carol_marie]

FrCorey:

they could have done one of the rites called, celebrations in the absence of a priest.

Does that “count?”

They did seem to be following a plan - they said things like, “OK - now we need to say the Our Father… please stand…” etc. They weren’t just making it up…

 

[otm]

carol marie:

Does that “count?”

They did seem to be following a plan - they said things like, “OK - now we need to say the Our Father… please stand…” etc. They weren’t just making it up…

I think you might find the answer above, but may not understand it.

1. no, it did not fulfill your obligation, as it was not a Mass. It was a prayer service and Communion, but that is not a Mass. A Mass includes a consecration: no priest, no consecration.
2. You may or may not still have had an obligation to attend Mass the next day (Sunday) if you were able. If, for example, you were taking a train starting the next morning before any Mass was available, you had already bought your tickets before this incident, and there was no Mass available on the train, you would have no obligation. No obligation, no sin. You had made a reasonable attempt to fulfill your obligation, and through no fault of your own, you were not able to,

The obligation is waived where, through no fault of your own you are not reasonably able to attend Mass.

If you had other plans that could have been reasonably rearranged to allow you to reasonably attend Mass on Sunday, then you were still under boligation to attend.

The issue of reasonableness is between you and your confessor.

 

[carol_marie]

Well if it didn’t count as “mass” I think they should have announced that because how is a new Catholic to know??? At that time rather than waiting around for it to start while the person went home for the “prayer book” we could’ve probably found another Catholic Church one town over and just been a bit late. What’s the point of a prayer service/communion if it doesn’t count as mass? At least give us the option of walking out if we want. (we were seated - all 10 of us in the FRONT row) and they told us to “sight tight.”

Also, at one point I turned around and asked the person behind me, “How will we do communion - I thought only a Priest could do the concecration?” (sp?) And she said, “Oh we have concecrated hosts… don’t worry…”

Honestly, if I had know it wasn’t a mass I would not have stayed. I have a hard enough time keeping all my kids good for mass - optional prayer services are not on our agenda.

 

[mhansen]

carol marie:

Well if it didn’t count as “mass” I think they should have announced that because how is a new Catholic to know??? At that time rather than waiting around for it to start while the person went home for the “prayer book” we could’ve probably found another Catholic Church one town over and just been a bit late. What’s the point of a prayer service/communion if it doesn’t count as mass? At least give us the option of walking out if we want. (we were seated - all 10 of us in the FRONT row) and they told us to “sight tight.”

Also, at one point I turned around and asked the person behind me, “How will we do communion - I thought only a Priest could do the concecration?” (sp?) And she said, “Oh we have concecrated hosts… don’t worry…”

Honestly, if I had know it wasn’t a mass I would not have stayed. I have a hard enough time keeping all my kids good for mass - optional prayer services are not on our agenda.

If you didn’t know, you didn’t know. End of story. No guilt needed here.

You didn’t meet all of the “requirements” for a mortal sin, one of which is “full knowledge.” Don’t let it upset your sleep tonight.

 

[carol_marie]

mhansen:

If you didn’t know, you didn’t know. End of story. No guilt needed here.

You didn’t meet all of the “requirements” for a mortal sin, one of which is “full knowledge.” Don’t let it upset your sleep tonight.

Thank you. I agree. Live & learn… now I know.

CM

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

carol marie:

Well if it didn’t count as “mass” I think they should have announced that because how is a new Catholic to know??? At that time rather than waiting around for it to start while the person went home for the “prayer book” we could’ve probably found another Catholic Church one town over and just been a bit late. What’s the point of a prayer service/communion if it doesn’t count as mass? At least give us the option of walking out if we want. (we were seated - all 10 of us in the FRONT row) and they told us to “sight tight.”

Also, at one point I turned around and asked the person behind me, “How will we do communion - I thought only a Priest could do the concecration?” (sp?) And she said, “Oh we have concecrated hosts… don’t worry…”

Honestly, if I had know it wasn’t a mass I would not have stayed. I have a hard enough time keeping all my kids good for mass - optional prayer services are not on our agenda.

“What’s the point of a prayer service/communion if it doesn’t count as mass?”

Well that is a question each person has to ask themselves. What is the points of prayer? Why do we receive Holy Communion?

Sometimes I will stop in a church as I travel just to pray for awhile. Other times I may stop in at a Communion service during the week where there is no resident priest “just” to receive Holy communion that day.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

mhansen:

If you didn’t know, you didn’t know. End of story. No guilt needed here.

You didn’t meet all of the “requirements” for a mortal sin, one of which is “full knowledge.” Don’t let it upset your sleep tonight.

A reasonable Catholic should know that they have an obligation to attend Mass on all Holy days of obligation and Sundays. That the obligation is binding under Mortal sin. A Catholic must decide with their conscience if they truly were unable to meet this obligation through no fault of their own.

I myself have misread Mass times while out of town and arrived for a Holy Day vigil at 7 pm to find that it was at 6 pm. That was my fault. I should have paid better attention when reading the times. I was obligated to get up two hours early the next day to attend Mass before starting my scheduled day. I had the choice to reschedule my nine-o’clock and ten- o’clock appointments to attend the 9 AM mass or get up at 6 AM and attend the 7 AM Mass!

You will have to decide if you could have reasonably returned for Mass Sunday morning or if “other things” were more important.

 

[shannin]

carol marie:

How do I discuss it? Do I just call him? I’m a bit worried because we were traveling (w/ 4 kids & a dog & a camper) and we weren’t able to attend today because of other obligations. We knew this in advance which is why we (tried) to go on Saturday night. But I’d hate the thought that I could be in a state of sin for having missed mass?
(although I honestly don’t feel that it was our fault since we tried to go… we even brought along another family who aren’t Catholic & so we were disappointed that the whole thing was so odd…)

There’s no mortal sin on your part here. Your intention was to attend Mass on Saturday because you weren’t able to go on Sunday.

 

[carol_marie]

“What’s the point of a prayer service/communion if it doesn’t count as mass?”

Well that is a question each person has to ask themselves. What is the points of prayer? Why do we receive Holy Communion?

Sometimes I will stop in a church as I travel just to pray for awhile. Other times I may stop in at a Communion service during the week where there is no resident priest “just” to receive Holy communion that day.

I would love to do that also… but I probably wouldn’t take my 4 children from the fun they were having camping - nor would I do so at a time when the other (non-Catholics) who were camping with us needed to come along.

I was ticked because we planned our entire day around the mass time - made a big deal about the importance of not skipping -dragged everybody along with - only to find out when I got home that it didn’t count and that my eternal soul might be in danger. Something I think SHOULD have been mentioned by the deacon “doing” the service or whatever it was called. Otherwise, how are we supposed to know?

How would you feel if you went to mass on Sunday AM and they said, “No priest or mass today… we’re going to pray & do communion instead.” Would you think… oh this is nice - I like prayer & communion… or would you think… Yikes… I need to attend mass - not a prayer service instead?

I actually thought that since the main purpose of our going to mass was to recieve Jesus in the Eucharist & we did that - it would qualify as mass. I asked someone on the way out what gives & she said that they share one Priest with 3 other parishes - so scheduling gets tricky. (not to mention how diffiult that must be for the poor Priest?)

I find it hard to believe that the ENTIRE group of people who attended when we did came back the next day… the church was packed. Why they didn’t just say “Mass is canceled” is beyond me.

At any rate - as someone else pointed out… we didn’t know.
Now we do.

 

[Petertherock]

We had a similar thing happen about a month or so ago. Although the Communion service was more organized and lasted longer than 15 minutes. Our deacon who ran the service told everyone that this counted for the Sunday obligation.

 

[banjo]

carol marie:

How do I discuss it? Do I just call him? I’m a bit worried because we were traveling (w/ 4 kids & a dog & a camper) and we weren’t able to attend today because of other obligations. We knew this in advance which is why we (tried) to go on Saturday night. But I’d hate the thought that I could be in a state of sin for having missed mass?
(although I honestly don’t feel that it was our fault since we tried to go… we even brought along another family who aren’t Catholic & so we were disappointed that the whole thing was so odd…)

Carol Marie

You have received many responses since I was last on the Forums. How do you discuss it? Do you just call him? Yes, if that will help you find peace of mind. Tell him what happened, over the telephone or in person. Something to keep in mind, you can’t have the celebration of the Mass without a priest.

God bless,

 

[mhansen]

Br. Rich SFO:

A reasonable Catholic should know that they have an obligation to attend Mass on all Holy days of obligation and Sundays. That the obligation is binding under Mortal sin. A Catholic must decide with their conscience if they truly were unable to meet this obligation through no fault of their own.

I myself have misread Mass times while out of town and arrived for a Holy Day vigil at 7 pm to find that it was at 6 pm. That was my fault. I should have paid better attention when reading the times. I was obligated to get up two hours early the next day to attend Mass before starting my scheduled day. I had the choice to reschedule my nine-o’clock and ten- o’clock appointments to attend the 9 AM mass or get up at 6 AM and attend the 7 AM Mass!

You will have to decide if you could have reasonably returned for Mass Sunday morning or if “other things” were more important.

Well, Br. Rich, it appears that the woman honestly didn’t know. Whether or not this makes her a “reasonable” Catholic in your eyes is something YOU’LL have to decide. As this situation is NOT the norm, and frankly, I’ve never had it happen to me in all of my 30 years, I wouldn’t expect everyone to know the intricacies of this situation.

The woman said she didn’t know. Shall we accuse her of lying as well as missing Mass? As for me, I’ll take her at her word.

Mike

 

[mhansen]

carol marie:

I was ticked because we planned our entire day around the mass time - made a big deal about the importance of not skipping -dragged everybody along with - only to find out when I got home that it didn’t count and that my eternal soul might be in danger. Something I think SHOULD have been mentioned by the deacon “doing” the service or whatever it was called. Otherwise, how are we supposed to know?

At any rate - as someone else pointed out… we didn’t know.
Now we do.

My friend,

Your soul is not in danger because you attended a Communion service. Come on people, give her a break here! Don’t let people place unnecessary guilt on you. I was the one you were referring to…I pointed out you didn’t know. If some of the others here don’t know the conditions for mortal sin, that’s something they need to deal with. I believe you honestly didn’t know. I have no reason to believe you would come here, take the time to post about it, obviously showing your concern and sincerity, if you were lying. That should be the end of it. No fire and brimstone needed.

Then again, you’re a new Catholic, so you’re probably not familiar with some of this behavior. Welcome to the world of endless guilt.

Mike