No Purgatory For You!

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I don’t understand purgatory? didn’t Jesus die for our sins? Wasn’t his perfect sacrifice sufficient? He said from the cross, “It is finished.”
Is there a passage in the bible that teaches purgatory?

God bless,
jean
Purgatory does not exist because our sins are not forgiven. Purgatory exists through the mercy of God because we do not die in a state of perfection, which is necessary for heaven.

But a deeper issue is that the fact that Jesus ‘died for our sins’ does not mean the once saved, always saved idea or that we do not need to cooperate with our redemption. It doesn’t mean that sin has no meaning anymore or that there is no consequence (to us) if we misuse our free will. We still have that capacity - to misuse our free will and to sin, knowingly. Jesus’ death and resurrection obtained for us the grace and availability of forgiveness for our sins; it also accomplished the justice of God in restoring the relationship between God and man (which man had destroyed in Adam and Eve). Because of the total destruction that original sin caused, only God, Himself, could deliver the justice; only God Himself could pay the price necessary to reestablish the relationship between us. He did what only God could do for us. We cooperate by doing what WE can (and should do)…as St. Paul says - we “work our our salvation in fear and trembling”.

Redemption was accomplished by Christ, through His passion and death; salvation, our own particular salvation, is something we must cooperate in by cooperating with that awesome gift of redemption. We, as humans, are great and glorious creatures (little less than angels) and made in the image and likeness of our Father…given free will to accept or reject Him. Our actions matter and our sins count. We are beings worthy of being in a love relationship with God. We are not mere ‘pets’ of God that have or play no part in the great drama of salvation.
 
Either way, the exchange between the thief and Jesus do not preclude Purgatory
Yeah, that’s what I was saying…it could have been either way, we don’t know. But it could have been either. thanks:)
 
Either way, the exchange between the thief and Jesus do not preclude Purgatory
That’s a good point…one which I hadn’t given a lot of thought to personally until reading your post.

I can’t help thinking personally that if Dismas (traditionally the name we ascribe to the good thief) did visit Purgatory, it would have had to barely qualify as a visit…working from what we know :

Luke 23: 39-46 [NAB]
Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.”

The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, "Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation?

And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal."

Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

He replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

It was now about noon and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon

because of an eclipse of the sun. Then the veil of the temple was torn down the middle.

Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit”; and when he had said this he breathed his last.

The degree of our sorrow or contrition for our sins, if deep enough, can remove all temporal punishment due to sin. Here are two snippets from the CCC:

1492 Repentance (also called contrition) must be inspired by motives that arise from faith. If repentance arises from love of charity for God, it is called “perfect” contrition; if it is founded on other motives, it is called “imperfect.”

If it wasn’t love or compassion for our Lord which caused Dismas to speak thus, making his plea fall so sweetly on divine ears amidst all the insults, jeering and blasphemies…perhaps, due to a glance into the eyes of Him Crucified which would have changed everything… then what else could it have been ?

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

Some propose that St. Peter may have had access (primacy ?) to the first sacramental Confession [John 21: 7-11] within the chronological context of the birth of the Church - following the life , death and resurrection of Our Lord. If that be so, it becomes difficult not to consider the exchange between Our crucified Lord and the crucified Dismas as a precursor, just prior to the consummation of the Sacrifice. We may recall here that Jesus also forgave sins (the parlytic, the woman caught in adultery) during his public life prior to His Crucifixion.

Writers refer to him as the penitent thief, or the repentant thief [sometimes the good thief]. He recieves salvation through the crucified Christ.

It would appear, from what can be read :
  • He had a fear(respect) of God
  • He acknowledged his debt which had to be paid to justice…and had accepted it.
  • (I find this next one fascinating) He knew Jesus had done nothing wrong/criminal.
  • He was, at that point, humble … he only asked to be remembered.
Bishop Fulton Sheen, in his book The Seven Last Words asks, “May we say the good thief died a thief - because he stole Heaven ?”

I prefer to think that, being such a good thief , he would have stole Heaven entirely… without having to make any detours.

🙂
 


The degree of our sorrow or contrition for our sins, if deep enough, can remove all temporal punishment due to sin. …

🙂
I apologize to my fellow members, I wasn’t able to edit the post within the permitted time frame. My editing skills aren’t always up to speed…that particular sorrow quoted above applies within the context of absolution - ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/what.htm ; although as a slight variation it is referred to here as temporal guilt (rather than temporal punishment).
 
The title of this thread just gets to me. all i can think about is Seinfeld and the “Soup Nazi” “No Soup For you!”😛
 
The title of this thread just gets to me. all i can think about is Seinfeld and the “Soup Nazi” “No Soup For you!”😛
I thought of that too… Well then, it seems everyone is in agreement that everyone
who is in need of a purgatory will get one, except the few who say Jesus’ 2nd coming is a “get out of purgatory free card”… I am still not so sure… I still think we might just
have to be perfect at Jesus’ 2nd coming… Think of someone like Hitler, or Judas, who
most people assume are in hell… Yet I saw home movies of Hitler with his family on TV, does love die? If someone who loves somebody could be in hell, why couldn’t we,
if we are not perfect at Jesus’ 2nd coming? Don’t we people of this modern age have
all the information and opportunity available to be perfect if we really want to? What about people who commit suicide? Many say, “they were mentally impaired, God understands”. Why doesn’t just everyone go to purgatory?

You know, they were really rude to that guy…and then they call him a Soup Nazi!
People with money think they own the world…
 
This reply is to JEAN 8 who asks for a Scriptural reference to purgatory.
FIRST – the term “purgatory” does not appear in Scripture, but then neither do the phrases “Holy Trinity” or “propitiatory atonement.” You have to use some common sense and to some extent, honestly, read a bit between the lines.
SECOND – the concept of purgatory is found fairly frequently in the O.T. In the N.T., my favorite passage that alludes to it is I Corinthians 3:10-15, which concludes, “If it [the body of works built on a poor foundation] is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The image of the less-than-perfect Christian entering paradise after escaping from a “house fire” is a very good description, to my mind, of what purgatory involves.
THIRD – The truth of the doctrine does not depend being able to cite chapter and verse from the Scriptures to support it. It comes from Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Word of God, as interpreted to us by the shepherds of our faith, appointed by God and led by the Holy Spirit.
FOURTH – Not believing in purgatory is not going to excuse you from undergoing it as you enter into Heaven (or into the New Earth). I like to think of it as a “2nd baptism” or a “re-baptism.” The first baptism frees me from the eternal penalties of sin, and purgatory washes me clean of all the icky residue of sin that clings to me (and that I* cling to!!!) over the years as I struggle through this sinful world. What a relief!
– God’s blessings and peace to all. – Rusty*
 
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