No Salvation Outside The Church?

[inkaneer]

What does any of that matter if I don’t have to follow the rules of the Catholic church to go to Heaven? Why should I worry about having to get up and go to church every Sunday morning, and go confess my sins if I can be saved without doing that?

I agree. Why do those things? If it doesn’t make you a better person, whats the point?

Because quite simply you cannot be saved if your sins are not forgiven. This is the big problem in protestantism for no where can the protestant obtain remission of sin. And mortal sin is just what its name implys, it is mortal, deadly to the soul. If you die with unrepented mortal sin you go to hell. Forget purgatory, you are hellbound. But Jesus established a church and granted that church the power to forgive the sins of anyone and through it the grace of salvation. That church is the Catholic Church for only it claims the power to forgive sin.

 

[IMFORGOD]

That doesn’t answer my question.

Why should someone bother converting if it doesn’t matter whether or not they are Catholic? Just because it makes you feel better?

Inkaneer said that all baptized people who don’t commit a mortal sin go to Heaven… But you have to have knowledge to commit a mortal sin, right? So if a person doesn’t convert or bother with the Catholic church, but they are baptized they will go to Heaven. Seems a better way than trying to be Catholic and worrying about following all the rules.

What do you claim to be mortal sins? Have/do you have fantasies about the other sex? (Adultry) Have you stolen even a little thing? (Theft) Have you ever wanted something that your friend or neighbour has? (Coveting your neighbours possessions) Have you ever wished someone was dead? (murderer) These things that take part in our daily lives are all part of the 10 Commandments, No human being EVER goes without sinning that is just Human nature. and we are obligated to attend a church and yes even to confess our sins to the priest for the priests are the new apsotles of JESUS in our day and as you have read in the Bible JESUS sent out HIS disciples to cast out demons,Heal the sick,raise the dead and more which you still find to this day.All in all JESUS started the Catholic church not the protestant church. Martin luther was responsible for that issue and the removal of the books from the Bible. So you can continue to follow the half teachings of the protestants or you can choose to learn fully through the Catholic church. the choice is all yours but remember that the protestants have only existed for 493 years Catholics were started with JESUS

 

[AnneElliot]

OKAstro the answer you are looking for is YES there is salvation outside the Catholic church I have easy proof of that.

That statement is an outright denial of Dogma.

 

[bingbang]

Because quite simply you cannot be saved if your sins are not forgiven. This is the big problem in protestantism for no where can the protestant obtain remission of sin. And mortal sin is just what its name implys, it is mortal, deadly to the soul. If you die with unrepented mortal sin you go to hell. Forget purgatory, you are hellbound. But Jesus established a church and granted that church the power to forgive the sins of anyone and through it the grace of salvation. That church is the Catholic Church for only it claims the power to forgive sin.

Well Protestants don’t believe that that if you die with an unrepented mortal sin you go to hell.

 

[bingbang]

That statement is an outright denial of Dogma.

Not everyone follows dogma.

 

[OKAstro]

No I cannot give you a yes or no answer. There are too many variables, that only God knows.

I disagree. Isn’t the CCC seems supposed to be the truth about what the CC believes? And the words seem pretty clear to me. Are you saying they have another meaning?

We’re told to read the CCC, but who is supposed to tell us what it means? As Catholics we rely on the CC to interpret scripture, so I would presume that the CCC is part of that interpretation. Why would it say something so clearly, but be interpreted as “it depends”

Makes no sense to me. Who has the correct interpretation?

 

[OKAstro]

OKAstro the answer you are looking for is YES there is salvation outside the Catholic church I have easy proof of that. plus if you read John 10:16-19 And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. [17] Therefore doth the Father love me: because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. [18] No man taketh it away from me: but I lay it down of myself, and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father. [19] A dissension rose again among the Jews for these words.

As well as John 3:16, you will see that there is salvation outside the catholic church

I was always taught that these “other sheep” refers to the Gentiles who were also to be called to conversion. Has nothing to do with Protestants, unless you interpret it as a conversion call for Protestants to return to the CC.

 

[gkoomen]

Why ask, "Why be Catholic, and HAVE TO do all those things? It’s not so much that we have to as that we GET TO. As a Protestant, I envied Catholics many of these same things - Confession etc. Such a treasure! Such a privilege! Do you realize that the rest of the world doesn’t have what you have?

 

[AnneElliot]

Not everyone follows dogma.

One would think it would be safe to think that Catholic would be concerned about following Dogma. My post was not aimed at the entire population in general, but at the poster, who identifies as a Catholic.

I am well aware that non-Catholics don’t follow Dogma. That’s part of what makes them non-Catholics.

 

[Milesius]

Hey everyone. I have always heard that the Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Church. But what exactly does this mean? Would a baptized Non-Catholic person with advanced Parkinson’s Disease and Alzheimer’s Disease who doesn’t even know anyone anymore still be culpable for their sins? Would he go to Heaven?

If the sins were committed while they still had use of their reason then yes they would still be culpable.

By the way at one time all Christians believed that outside of the Church there was no salvation for the simple reason that it is biblical, the only disagreement was what constituted the Church.

 

[IMFORGOD]

That statement is an outright denial of Dogma.

Why don’t you show me something to correct me, For what I experienced in my past proves my point. I have always had a very close walk with JESUS and I could tell you stories that could make you re-think things too,Again I say Yes there is salvation outside the catholic church

 

[Milesius]

Why don’t you show me something to correct me, For what I experienced in my past proves my point. I have always had a very close walk with JESUS and I could tell you stories that could make you re-think things too,Again I say Yes there is salvation outside the catholic church

That is heresy and is a denial of God’s revelation to man.

 

[AnneElliot]

Why don’t you show me something to correct me, For what I experienced in my past proves my point. I have always had a very close walk with JESUS and I could tell you stories that could make you re-think things too,Again I say Yes there is salvation outside the catholic church

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215 (D 430)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302 (D 468)

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, 1441 (D 714)

Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscum #10 “See to it that the faithful have fixed firmly in their minds this dogma of our most holy religion: the absolute necessity of the Catholic faith for attaining salvation.”

Vatican I “This true Catholic faith, outside which no one can be saved, which I now freely profess and truly hold, I do promise and swear that I will most constantly keep and confess whole and inviolate with the help of God until the last breath of my life, and that I will take great care that it be held, taught, and preached by my inferiors and by those who are placed under my charge.” Papal Oath

Do you want more?

 

[Acts831]

Why ask, "Why be Catholic, and HAVE TO do all those things? It’s not so much that we have to as that we GET TO. As a Protestant, I envied Catholics many of these same things - Confession etc. Such a treasure! Such a privilege! Do you realize that the rest of the world doesn’t have what you have?

So a person “gets to” go to Mass or they get to go to Hell?

I’m asking why be Catholic if it makes no difference concerning salvation? Can a person be saved without being Catholic? If they can, then what’s the point in being Catholic… Why not just believe in Jesus and not worry about rules?

 

[Milesius]

I’m asking why be Catholic if it makes no difference concerning salvation? Can a person be saved without being Catholic? If they can, then what’s the point in being Catholic… Why not just believe in Jesus and not worry about rules?

Very good question, one I have yet to hear a convincing answer for.

 

[Acts831]

What do you claim to be mortal sins? Have/do you have fantasies about the other sex? (Adultry) Have you stolen even a little thing? (Theft) Have you ever wanted something that your friend or neighbour has? (Coveting your neighbours possessions) Have you ever wished someone was dead? (murderer) These things that take part in our daily lives are all part of the 10 Commandments, No human being EVER goes without sinning that is just Human nature. and we are obligated to attend a church and yes even to confess our sins to the priest for the priests are the new apsotles of JESUS in our day and as you have read in the Bible JESUS sent out HIS disciples to cast out demons,Heal the sick,raise the dead and more which you still find to this day.All in all JESUS started the Catholic church not the protestant church. Martin luther was responsible for that issue and the removal of the books from the Bible. So you can continue to follow the half teachings of the protestants or you can choose to learn fully through the Catholic church. the choice is all yours but remember that the protestants have only existed for 493 years Catholics were started with JESUS

You say that Jesus started the Catholic church and that matters, but then you say that a person does not have to be part of that church that Jesus started in order to find salvation… That does not make sense. Why does it matter which church Jesus founded if I don’t have to attend it to be saved?

How can I be obligated to confess my sins if I can get to Heaven without confessing them?

 

[gkoomen]

People do, in a sense, ‘get to’ go to hell - they make a choice freely and live with it. Sure, you might be saved if you leave the Church - but turning your back on it will have consequences - Purgatory. How long? How intense? It will certainly be much harder for non Catholics, and the temptation to fall into mortal sin will be a constant danger. As for me, I’m staying put. Becoming a Catholic was the best decision I ever made. What a treasure this Church is! Sell everything, and BUY THAT FIELD!

 

[Acts831]

People do, in a sense, ‘get ot’ go to hell - they make a choice freely and live with it. Sure, you might be saved if you leave the Church - but turning your back on it will have cons3quences - Pufgatory. How longZ How intense? It will certainly be much harder for non Catholics, and the temptation to fall into mortal sin will be a constant danger. As for me, I’m staying put. Becoming aa Catholic was the best decision I ever made. What a treasure this Church is - sell everything, and BUY THAT FIELD!

People in purgatory are still saved,right? So who cares about anything else? Everyone wants to go to Heaven, I don’t care how I get there, as long as I do. So why should I be Catholic if I can go to Heaven if I’m not?

 

[gkoomen]

Yes, they are saved - if they make it there. But Purgatory isn’t to be taken lightly. It’s no picnic. The souls there long to be out with all their hearts. I agree with Mother Angelica, "Don’t aim for Purgatory - You’re called to be a great saint - don’t miss the opportunity!

 

[Acts831]

Yes, they are saved - if they make it there. But Purgatory isn’t to be taken lightly. It’s no picnic. The souls there long to be out with all their hearts. I agree with Mother Angelica, "Don’t aim for Purgatory - You’re called to be a great saint - don’t miss the opportunity!

This still doesn’t answer the question. What’s the point in being Catholic if it doesn’t matter? If I can get into Heaven without being Catholic, then why bother with conversion? Conversion to the Catholic church comes with rules and new beliefs… Going to church every Sunday, believing Mary was without sin, confessing to a priest, etc. If I can be saved without having to convert… I can sleep in and pray on my own, confess to God in prayer, and not worry about whether or not it matters if Jesus’ mother was sinless. There’s no point to being Catholic if I can be saved without converting.