No Salvation Outside The Church?

[guanophore]

No salvation outside the Church: for many centuries this was standard Church dogma.

News flash, William. It still is.

We are not at liberty to jettison doctrines of the faith that were handed down to us from the Apostles.

It allowed Popes to be more powerful than Kings. Excommunication was a sentence to eternal torture.

This is not true. Excommunication is no such thing. It is a disciplinary action intended to save souls.

Fortunately, Catholics began to be ashamed of this inhuman belief, and so they started to Interpret.

Maybe you are ashamed of the Gospel as it was handed to us by the Apostles, William, and you are ashamed to espouse their teachings, but Catholics are not, and you can provide no evidence to support the assertion you are making here. Please produce one “Catholic” (besides yourself) who is ashamed of the Apostolic faith!

 Many examples of interpretation, some contradictory, can be found in this thread. It is amazing - it is unreal - that people can send and

receive email about hell.

I am not sure what you mean by this, but people’s misunderstanding about Church teaching, much of which is represented in this thread, does not constitute the Truth.

My own opinion, for what it's worth, is this.

According to the old Two Natures doctrine Jesus was God, but also Man. As man he was a first century rabbi. He often contradicted himself. He believed in the imminent end of the world
and that there was a place where the unrepentant would be tortured forever.
He was wrong twice.

Anyone who claims that Jesus “was wrong” any times has no business calling himself a Catholic. Why do you identify yourself this way, when you have rejected Catholic faith?
Catholics believe that Jesus is God, and God is never “wrong”. You do more damage to the faith, claiming to be something you are not.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t know why the CCC has a paragraph about Muslims in it, I did not write it.

Have you considered READING it? It is free online,a nd it will answer questions of this kind.

I am not trying to discourage you from bringing them here, however, as you are the reason we exist.

So why be a Catholic? Why should a person convert to the Catholic church if Christians can be saved without being full members of the Catholic church? You said above that conversion was a “benefit”… What does that mean? Does a person get bonus points for being Catholic, even though it doesn’t really matter?

All denominations resulted from separating from Catholicism. Each denomination has denied part of the Apostolic Teaching that was committed once for all to the Church. What began by rejecting Catholicism 500 years ago has continued, and each generation of newly created denominations abandons a little more of the faith of the Apostles. This faith, outside of which there is no salvation, is contained in it’s fullness in the Catholic Church.

You don’t have to be identified as Catholic to be saved, but those who are not visibly Catholic are only saved in spite of the fact that they are lacking some of the Truth.

so the phrase “no salvation outside the church” isn’t clear enough? It means that there really is salvation outside the church? That doesn’t make sense. Are the teachings of the church straightforward, or do they not mean what they say?

It means that there is only ONE CHURCH. All who are members of Christ belong to that One Church. Since there is no other way to be saved but by Christ, and all who are attached to the Head are members of His One Body, the Church, all who are saved are members of the One Church.

So if being Catholic is no guarantee, and there are "probably" many Protestants who will be saved... Why be Catholic?

Some people seem to feel no need to have the whole Truth,a nd are content to settle for only part of it.

 It's hard to find the truth, but not impossible? And Protestants can be saved... What's the point? Does truth matter?

Most of our separated brethren believe they have the “whole Truth” in their bibles,a nd don’t need anything else.

God can save anyone He wants, however he likes. He gave us the Church to guide us into salvation.

Either what the Catholic church teaches is true, and all else is false; or some other faith is true.

No. This is a false premise. Truth can be found in many places. St. Paul even quoted Pagan sources in his letters, and said they were true.

Why believe in mortal and venial sin, the authority of the Pope, the Sacraments, etc. if I don’t have to believe them to be saved?

It is much more difficult to attain salvation when one is missing part ofthe Truth God has revealed for that purpose.

Why should a person convert and subject themselves to worrying about sin and believing what the Pope teaches if they don’t have to in order to find salvation?

I can’t imagine why anyone would want to “worry about sin”. That does not even sound Christian to me. J esus taught us to focus on Him, and to leave our sins behind.

Is there something the Pope is teaching that you would NOT want to believe?

Do you not believe that God gave teachers to help us grow in faith?

 

[guanophore]

Wow - I am really confused reading this thread.

The CCC seems very clear to me that if you are a non-Catholic Christian who rejects the Catholic Church, you cannot be saved.

But after reading this thread, I don’t know what to believe. I see the point of several posters who ask if this is not what the CC teaches, then what’s the point of converting to the Catholic faith?

Can someone clarify … can a non-Catholic Christian who rejects the CC be saved? Yes or No

No, but most non-Catholic Christians do not reject the CC. They don’t even know that the Bible, from which they draw their faith traditions, is Catholic. They reject what they THINK is Catholic, which is often mythology. I recommend the CCC on this topic, as it will clarify the Teaching of the Apostles that there is no salvation outside the Church.

If they were to learn the Truth of Catholcism, and realize that it is the only Church founded by Christ, then reject it, they would be choosing to reject Him.

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#819

 

[inkaneer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Because quite simply you cannot be saved if your sins are not forgiven. This is the big problem in protestantism for no where can the protestant obtain remission of sin. And mortal sin is just what its name implys, it is mortal, deadly to the soul. If you die with unrepented mortal sin you go to hell. Forget purgatory, you are hellbound. But Jesus established a church and granted that church the power to forgive the sins of anyone and through it the grace of salvation. That church is the Catholic Church for only it claims the power to forgive sin.

Well Protestants don’t believe that that if you die with an unrepented mortal sin you go to hell.

I am sure some do. For despite their claim of sola scriptura, most protestants incorporate unscriptural doctrine into their belief system. Scripture clearly states there is sin that is deadly [mortal]. That means there is sin that will send one to hell. One can deny it if they want but that does not change things one iota.

One more thing, protestantism has so many conflicting beliefs it is like a cafeteria where one can take or reject doctrines based on personal perference and rationalize the decision to boot! But does that make it correct? In a system that claims that the only authority is scripture why does the individual have authority to decide anythjng?

 

[gkoomen]

Jesus taught that there is a broad way that leads to destruction, and a narrow way that leads to life. I see a lot of posts on here that try to justify choosing the former. “I don’t want to get up on Sunday. I don’t want to have to go to Confession”, etc That’s downright dangerous! If you know that the CC teaches the truth, but refuse to follow it, I wouldn’t hold out much hope for you. We can take this thread to hundreds of pages of arguing and achieve nothing. The answer lies in the heart, not the head. Seek the truth with your head, but embrace it with your heart. No one was ever argued into the Kingdom of God! All this wrangling back and forth will not save anyone. Let’s give prayer a try.

 

[cathdoki]

So why be a Catholic? Why should a person convert to the Catholic church if Christians can be saved without being full members of the Catholic church? You said above that conversion was a “benefit”… What does that mean? Does a person get bonus points for being Catholic, even though it doesn’t really matter?

I don’t know why the CCC has a paragraph about Muslims in it, I did not write it.

Catholics and Orthodox have the EUCHARIST! What more can we ask for?

 

[mo3]

David - Look at my post 122. It is clear that unless Luther repented, returned to the CC, and received the sacrament of penance, the Church would say he did NOT achieve salvation.

The Catholic Church would never say “he did not achieve salvation.”

The Catholic Church does not judge the eternal salvation of souls.

God bless.

 

[guanophore]

Because quite simply you cannot be saved if your sins are not forgiven. This is the big problem in protestantism for no where can the protestant obtain remission of sin. And mortal sin is just what its name implys, it is mortal, deadly to the soul. If you die with unrepented mortal sin you go to hell. Forget purgatory, you are hellbound. But Jesus established a church and granted that church the power to forgive the sins of anyone and through it the grace of salvation. That church is the Catholic Church for only it claims the power to forgive sin.

Jesus forgives sins, and He may choose to forgive sins when a person makes a perfect contrition. This is the case with Catholics and non-Catholics. Jesus is not bound by the sacrament.

I am sure some do. For despite their claim of sola scriptura, most protestants incorporate unscriptural doctrine into their belief system.  Scripture clearly states there is sin that is deadly [mortal].  That means there is sin that will send one to hell.  One can deny it if they want but that does not change things one iota.

Most protestants don’t distinguish levels of sin,and believe a person is hellbound for venial sins as well as mortal.

One more thing, protestantism has so many conflicting beliefs it is like a cafeteria where one can take or reject doctrines based on personal perference and rationalize the decision to boot! But does that make it correct? In a system that claims that the only authority is scripture why does the individual have authority to decide anythjng?

Because anyone with a belly button can read scripture and interpret it for himself. Each one becomes his own authority of how the Scripture is to be understood, and lived.

 

[inkaneer]

This still doesn’t answer the question. What’s the point in being Catholic if it doesn’t matter? If I can get into Heaven without being Catholic, then why bother with conversion? Conversion to the Catholic church comes with rules and new beliefs… Going to church every Sunday, believing Mary was without sin, confessing to a priest, etc. If I can be saved without having to convert… I can sleep in and pray on my own, confess to God in prayer, and not worry about whether or not it matters if Jesus’ mother was sinless. There’s no point to being Catholic if I can be saved without converting.

Okay here is your answer in a nutshell. Jesus established a church through which the redemptive work of His on the cross could be administered to men. The church then is the normative or usual manner of salvation but God is not limited to His church as to how a person can be saved. God is a God of justice but He is also a God of mercy. That means that while God will judge each one rightly not everyone will have the same standard of justice applied. Thus a person who never heard of Jesus Christ let alone anything about Christianity will be judged by far more lenient standards than someone who did hear of the Catholic Church but refused to join it. Catholics will have a higher standard applied to them but someone who rejects his Catholic faith and dies before rejoining the church has squandered his salvation. Now where you fit in is impossible to determine. The standard by which you will be judged is unknowable by me or even possibly you. But I do sense a reluctance on your part to join the Catholic Church . Maybe that is because you don’t want to be ‘bothered’ with the obligations of what it means to be Catholic. Maybe it is for family reasons or other reasons. If that is the case and knowing that Jesus said that the path to heaven is narrow but the road to hell is broad I am not optimistic of your salvation probability. Bear in mind, I am not judging you and saying you are hellbound but that is my discernment based on what I sense in your posts. Could I be wrong? Of course. Am I? I don’t know.

 

[inkaneer]

Did GOD say that salvation is just for Catholics? NO For GOD so loved THE WORLD that HE gave His only begotten SON that WHOSOEVER believeth in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life. There is said that GOD loves the world, Not just Catholics

Tell me what “believeth in Him” means. Does “believeth in Him” mean that if Jesus establishes a church that you would also believe in that church and join it? If not ,then tell me why did Jesus establish a church? Why did he not write on stone tablets the whole of scripture and tell mankind, “here it is, now go follow it”? And doesn’t believing in Jesus mean believing in **all **He taught and not just some of it? And if you don’t think it does tell me how much of it is required for salvation. I agree that God loves the world, after all He created it] and God is love. But doesn’t love require a response? Is God obligated to reward to those who do not love Him the same as to those who do. God is a God of Mercy but He is also a God of Justice? Mercy was in giving His only son to pay the price for man’s sin. Mercy is not in turning a blind eye to those who spurn Him.

 

[inkaneer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Because quite simply you cannot be saved if your sins are not forgiven. This is the big problem in protestantism for no where can the protestant obtain remission of sin. And mortal sin is just what its name implys, it is mortal, deadly to the soul. If you die with unrepented mortal sin you go to hell. Forget purgatory, you are hellbound. But Jesus established a church and granted that church the power to forgive the sins of anyone and through it the grace of salvation. That church is the Catholic Church for only it claims the power to forgive sin.

Jesus forgives sins, and He may choose to forgive sins when a person makes a perfect contrition. This is the case with Catholics and non-Catholics. Jesus is not bound by the sacrament.

Consider this question. How difficult [or easy] is it to make a “perfect Act of Contrition”? Now before you anser consider this: If a perfect act ofcontrition was easy then why did Jesus give the church the authority to forgive sin? I asked a theologian this same question regarding a perfect act of contrition. His answer is that a perfect Act of contrition requires a person to have only the love of God as its only motive and not some other motive or sub motive like fear of hell. Is that possible for a sinful man to do? Yes it is possible. Is it probable that a sinful man could do it? Not very. So while the possibility exists the bottom line is take the road that Jesus offered through the church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
I am sure some do. For despite their claim of sola scriptura, most protestants incorporate unscriptural doctrine into their belief system. Scripture clearly states there is sin that is deadly [mortal]. That means there is sin that will send one to hell. One can deny it if they want but that does not change things one iota.

Most protestants don’t distinguish levels of sin,and believe a person is hellbound for venial sins as well as mortal.

That is not only unscriptural and thus wrong but is also why they reject purgatory. Scripture clearly says there is sin that can be forgiven in the next life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
One more thing, protestantism has so many conflicting beliefs it is like a cafeteria where one can take or reject doctrines based on personal perference and rationalize the decision to boot! But does that make it correct? In a system that claims that the only authority is scripture why does the individual have authority to decide anythjng?

Because anyone with a belly button can read scripture and interpret it for himself. Each one becomes his own authority of how the Scripture is to be understood, and lived.

---

“The tradition of the Apostles has been made manifest throughout the world, and can be found in every Church by those who wish to know the truth.” – Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 189, on how the unity of the Church was based on the Apostolic Tradition everywhere handed down (paradosis).

Yeah and protestantism is proof positive of the result. 40,000 denominations and counting. All claiming to be Spirit led and teaching the One Truth yet all different.

By the way those “churches” that Irenaeus spoke of were not protestant churches but Catholic Churches and you left off the reason why Irenaeus said this. It was because these Churches were united to Rome. You quoted Irenaeus’ Against Heresies 3:3:1 But how about the very next paragraph Against Heresies 3:3:2 where Irenaeus also added:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (Against Heresies 3:3:2).

 

[guanophore]

Consider this question. How difficult [or easy] is it to make a “perfect Act of Contrition”? Now before you anser consider this: If a perfect act ofcontrition was easy then why did Jesus give the church the authority to forgive sin? I asked a theologian this same question regarding a perfect act of contrition.

I don’t believe that I asserted it was easy. I just said it was possible.

His answer is that a perfect Act of contrition requires a person to have only the love of God as its only motive and not some other motive or sub motive like fear of hell.  Is that possible for a sinful man to do?  Yes it is possible.  Is it probable that a sinful man could do it?   Not very.

There are many of our separated brethren that walk by the Spirit, and not by the flesh. They manifest a zealous faith toward God. The HS can produce in any one of them an act of perfect contrition.

 So while the possibility exists the bottom line is take the road that Jesus offered through the church.

You will get no arguement from me on this point.

 That is not only unscriptural and thus wrong but is also why they reject purgatory.  Scripture clearly says there is sin that can be forgiven in the next life.

Well, it is clear to us, because we read it according to the Apostolic tradition, but it is not clear to many of them. some of them even think that the sins they have not yet committed are already forgiven!

 Yeah and protestantism is proof positive of the result.  40,000 denominations and counting.  All claiming to be Spirit led and teaching the One Truth yet all different.

Don’t you think you might be exaggerating just a little?

 By the way those "churches" that  Irenaeus spoke of were not protestant churches but Catholic Churches and you left off the reason why Irenaeus said this.  It was because these Churches were united to Rome.  You quoted Irenaeus' *Against Heresies 3:3:1* But how about the very next paragraph *Against Heresies 3:3:2* where Irenaeus also added:

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (Against Heresies 3:3:2).

 

[The_Reginator]

This has got to be one of the worst reasons for doing anything… ever! I’m not Catholic because I think it makes my Christian life easier.** I’m Catholic because Catholicism is TRUE! **

Christian life is not about feeling good, making things easier, etc. Christian life is about participating in the life of Jesus Christ Who is THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life. (“The Way which you must follow, the Truth you must believe, the Life for which you must hope… the Way imperishable, the Truth infallible, the Life everlasting… the straightest Way, the highest Truth, the true Life…”)

It’s about TRUTH.

Not feelings. Not abilities. Not preferences. Etc.

If someone asks you why you are Catholic, the first words out of your mouth ought to be because Catholicism is TRUE! Truth matters. There is no point to being Catholic if Catholicism is not true.

There are 10 million reasons to be Catholic, but the only reason that matters is that Catholicism is the truth.

Umm. That’s what I meant to say?
I was anxious to get to my points about the blessings we receive from Christ’s Church.
Thanks for the correction Ann. (Will you edit my posts from now on? There’s a quarter in it for you.)

 

[AnneElliot]

Umm. That’s what I meant to say?
I was anxious to get to my points about the blessings we receive from Christ’s Church.
Thanks for the correction Ann. (Will you edit my posts from now on? There’s a quarter in it for you.)

Blessings and other things are good too. As I said, there are 10 million (and probably more) reasons to be Catholic. But honestly I don’t think anything but the fact that it’s true really matters.

I apologize, now reading back through my original post… I could have been more charitable. I just get fired up about sentimentality.

 

[jericho777]

You assume that “everything” was written down. Please quote chapter and verse that says “everything” was written?

Do you mean like the Divinity of Christ at the Council of Nicea?

This doesn’t mean it was delivered to “you” perfectly. This doesn’t mean you understand it perfectly.

Does this mean you can’t use your mind to interpret scripture? What about the Holy Spirit? If you believe you are guided by the Holy Spirit to “interpret” scripture, then why can’t the Holy Spirit guide the Catholic Church when interpreting scripture?

God bless.

I only believe what the Holy Spirit wanted written down was revealed in scripture.

The Divinity of Christ is revealed in both the OT and NT apart from any council or decree

“We are told to hold fast to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. Our faith was completely delivered to us.”

Our faith is perfectly delivered to us in scripture.

The Holy Spirit is sent to us to be our teacher John 14:26 to reveal God’s will for us in light of scripture. The Holy Spirit cannot contradict the written word.

 

[Emerite]

Okay here is your answer in a nutshell. Jesus established a church through which the redemptive work of His on the cross could be administered to men. The church then is the normative or usual manner of salvation but God is not limited to His church as to how a person can be saved. God is a God of justice but He is also a God of mercy. That means that while God will judge each one rightly not everyone will have the same standard of justice applied. Thus a person who never heard of Jesus Christ let alone anything about Christianity will be judged by far more lenient standards than someone who did hear of the Catholic Church but refused to join it. Catholics will have a higher standard applied to them but someone who rejects his Catholic faith and dies before rejoining the church has squandered his salvation. Now where you fit in is impossible to determine. The standard by which you will be judged is unknowable by me or even possibly you. But I do sense a reluctance on your part to join the Catholic Church . Maybe that is because you don’t want to be ‘bothered’ with the obligations of what it means to be Catholic…

Very well said, Inkaneer. You really comprehend the teachings of the CCC. We must pray for our brothers so that we might all be in heaven together one day, and for Christian unity throughout the world.

 

[guanophore]

I only believe what the Holy Spirit wanted written down was revealed in scripture.

Yes. Of course! But the HS did not intend for everything to be written.

The Divinity of Christ is revealed in both the OT and NT apart from any council or decree

Except that you would not know what the Scriptures are, without the council and the decree. Further, if it were so “evident”, 80% of Christendom would not have fallen into the Arian heresy by 325.

“We are told to hold fast to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. Our faith was completely delivered to us.”

This occurred before any of the NT was written. Jesus committed the faith to the Apostles, and they to their successors.

Our faith is perfectly delivered to us in scripture.

It is interesting that Scripture does not claim this about itself, is it not? And it is also interesting that the Scriptures say that the faith is complete in the Church.

The Holy Spirit is sent to us to be our teacher John 14:26 to reveal  God’s will for us in light of scripture. The Holy Spirit cannot contradict the written word.

No, but people’s perceptions sure can - and do!

 

[JIMBARRY1946]

A comment to “Scoobyshme”. You should be in our parish. Our pastor has two churches in northeast Ohio along the PA border. He is NOT afraid to tell it like it is about anything. He frequently preaches on the horrors of abortion and stresses that unnatural family planning is a serious sin. I believe he is the holiest priest I have ever encountered in my lifelong Catholicism.

 

[inkaneer]

I don’t believe that I asserted it was easy. I just said it was possible.

Quite a big difference between possible and probable. The question is, is one willing to bet their eternal future on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
His answer is that a perfect Act of contrition requires a person to have only the love of God as its only motive and not some other motive or sub motive like fear of hell. Is that possible for a sinful man to do? Yes it is possible. Is it probable that a sinful man could do it? Not very.

There are many of our separated brethren that walk by the Spirit, and not by the flesh. They manifest a zealous faith toward God. The HS can produce in any one of them an act of perfect contrition.

“Zealous faith”? Let’s not slip into the errors of protestantism here with Sola Fide. Pharisees had a “zealous faith” but Jesus said that unless ones righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees one would not have eternal life [Mt 5:20]. He also said:

" 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’" [Mt 15:8-9]

Sounds like sola scriptura to me.

Well, it is clear to us, because we read it according to the Apostolic tradition, but it is not clear to many of them. some of them even think that the sins they have not yet committed are already forgiven!

Error is error and what one thinks does not make error truth. Sort of goes back to the scripture reference above about worshipping God in vain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
Yeah and protestantism is proof positive of the result. 40,000 denominations and counting. All claiming to be Spirit led and teaching the One Truth yet all different.

Don’t you think you might be exaggerating just a little?

I don’t think so as I got that number about a year ago from the Gordon Conwall Theological Seminary which is a highly respected protestant institution. But in reality the actual number of protestant denominations is unimportant. The fact is that there is only one number that is correct and that is the number one.

 

[cathdoki]

A question I posed before:

If the CCC in paragraph 841 states that God’s plan of Salvation includes muslims, then how can it not include non-Catholic Christians?