No Salvation Outside The Church?

[William99]

Last week ten protestant medical missionaries were murdered by
the Taliban. According to Eugene IV (Edited) they
are in hell.
I don’t think so.

 

[cathdoki]

Last week ten protestant medical missionaries were murdered by
the Taliban. According to Eugene IV (Edited) they
are in hell.
I don’t think so.

I don’t think so either my friend.

 

[AnneElliot]

Just above Ignatious of Antioch.

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

Thanks for providing the source.

Regardless of whether one wants to say “innocent ignorance” or (as Popes have termed it) “invincible ignorance”, what I said previously still stands. Ignorance cannot save anyone. It can excuse, but it cannot save.

(Edited)

 

[cathdoki]

(Edited)
(Edited) They are human except when teaching ex-cathedra.

 

[AnneElliot]

(Edited)

Pope Eugene IV was speaking ex cathedra in what was posted. He was speaking, as the successor of St. Peter, on a matter of doctrine (DOGMA)… on a matter pertaining to the Faith.

(Edited)

 

[cathdoki]

Pope Eugene IV was speaking ex cathedra in what was posted. He was speaking, as the successor of St. Peter, on a matter of doctrine (DOGMA)… on a matter pertaining to the Faith.

(Edited)

You’ll have to show me where Eugene was speaking ex-cathedra.

(Edited)

 

[cathdoki]

Pope Eugene IV was speaking ex cathedra in what was posted. He was speaking, as the successor of St. Peter, on a matter of doctrine (DOGMA)… on a matter pertaining to the Faith.

Yeah, Popes make mistakes. But that doesn’t mean you can call them names, either. That’s just childish. Address the argument, not your sentimentality about it. No one’s going to change their mind because you’ve called a Pope of the Holy Catholic Church a “bigot” (or agreed with someone who did), sound reason changes minds, prayer changes hearts.

Do I agree with Pope John Paul II kissing the Koran? No, of course not. But he never wrote in into an encyclical or Papal Bull, etc. And I certainly would never call him names over it. He made a mistake (a big one). But I’ve made worse.

Would you consider a pope selling indulgences to not be a bigot?

 

[AnneElliot]

You’ll have to show me where Eugene was speaking ex-cathedra.

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, **professes **and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (Denzinger 714) (BTW, Cantate Domino is a Papal Bull)

(Edited)

 

[cathdoki]

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, **professes **and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (Denzinger 714) (BTW, Cantate Domino is a Papal Bull)

Thanks for providing that.

(Edited)

 

[cathdoki]

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, **professes **and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (Denzinger 714) (BTW, Cantate Domino is a Papal Bull)

Here is an example of pride.

No one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

That is contrary to the Gospel.

 

[Michael_Francis]

**Stay on topic and avoid off topic rants and allegations against clergy of expect further moderator intervention.

A review of this link should also help. **

 

[AnneElliot]

Here is an example of pride.

No one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

That is contrary to the Gospel.

No it’s not, it is perfectly in accord with the Gospel:

“Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 7:21

 

[AnneElliot]

Stay on topic and avoid off topic rants and allegations against clergy of expect further moderator intervention.

A review of this link should also help.

Thank you!

 

[cathdoki]

No it’s not, it is perfectly in accord with the Gospel:

“Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 7:21

You’re wrong.

Thank you Michael Francis!

 

[cathdoki]

So, putting your life on the line for Christ is not enough to enter heaven?

Not denying Christ to the point of death is not enough to get to heaven?

Hmmmm???

Have a great night

 

[AnneElliot]

So, putting your life on the line for Christ is not enough to enter heaven?

Not denying Christ to the point of death is not enough to get to heaven?

Hmmmm???

Have a great night

You are too emotionally involved to see what’s at stake here. Take a step back, breathe, and relax. God is in control.

A man who believes the Pope is of Satan, the Blessed Mother was tool to transport Jesus to earth, etc. who “sheds his blood for the Name of Christ” is pouring out his blood for his own idea of Christ, and not the Jesus Christ who truly Is. God will give each and every person the grace(s) they need to find eternal life… a person who obstinately refuses to acknowledge the truth cannot find eternal life simply because he’s not really looking for it. If you look for Jesus outside of His Church, you won’t find Him.

The Church has never canonized martyrs who were not Catholic.

 

[guanophore]

“Zealous faith”? Let’s not slip into the errors of protestantism here with Sola Fide. Pharisees had a “zealous faith” but Jesus said that unless ones righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees one would not have eternal life [Mt 5:20].

No chance of that. But you must realize that some of our separated brethren live out a much more authentic faith that the majority of “cafeteria catholics”. They believe that one who claims to walk with Christ must manifest the fruits of such a walk.

As to the righteousness, we become the righteousness of God in Christ, for He is our righteousness. The only way we can exceed the rightousness of the Pharisees is to be covered by the blood of the Lamb.

He also said:

" 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’" [Mt 15:8-9]

Sounds like sola scriptura to me.

Well, it does not to me. It sounds like cafeteria catholics to me.

Many of our separated brethren, I would say the majority of those who espouse Sola Scriptura, are very close to the heart of God, and worship Him to the utmost of their ability.
They don’t even know it is a doctrine of men!

Error is error and what one thinks does not make error truth. Sort of goes back to the scripture reference above about worshipping God in vain.

People are not held responsible for that they do not know. “bible christians” believe that living according to how they understand the Bible is the best way to AVOID error.

Yeah and protestantism is proof positive of the result. 40,000 denominations and counting. All claiming to be Spirit led and teaching the One Truth yet all different.

You are preachin’ to the choir.

I don’t think so as I got that number about a year ago from the Gordon Conwall Theological Seminary which is a highly respected protestant institution. But in reality the actual number of protestant denominations is unimportant. The fact is that there is only one number that is correct and that is the number one.

Yes. that is one reason that number bothers me. Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH, so even one other claiming to be authentic represents a problem.

 

[guanophore]

A question I posed before:

If the CCC in paragraph 841 states that God’s plan of Salvation includes muslims, then how can it not include non-Catholic Christians?

If someone told you God’s plan of salvation does not include non-Catholic Christians. then they misunderstood the ["]Catechism.]("

Since there is no remission of sin outside of the Catholic Church,

Where on earth did you come by such a preposterous notion? If you are quoting someone else’s preposterous notion, then I missed it. Where is origin of this drivel?

how is a Protestant (or any non-Catholic) saved? Or do you argue that God has 2 standards? One for Catholics (members of His Church), and another for non-Catholics?

Everyone is saved by grace, through faith. Non-Catholic Christians are alsom members of His Church.

 

[guanophore]

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (Denzinger 714)

One has to understand such statements in their historical context. This was 200 years or so before the Reformation. Besides the Orthodox, there WERE no non-Catholic Christians!

 

[guanophore]

So, all protestants go to hell.

Such statements are not accurate, do not represent Catholic doctrine, and are not productive. How is posting such falsehoods of benefit in the mission of CAF?

What about the Orthodox? The Church with little change or new doctrine for well over a thousand years?

It seems like you are attempting to polarize the thoughts of another member with the
CCC, since the two appear to be diametrical.