No Salvation Outside The Church?

[inkaneer]

Thank you!! You’ve brought out the finer points that I was not aware of. It makes sense that baptism in a church other than the Catholic Church is still important. I married a non-Catholic and that is the first question we were asked. At the time I thought it was weird but our classes were very poor (I know they have improved immensely since then; this was quite awhile ago).

I went to Catholic school and I was taught that the boys in Africa (strange that the girls were never mentioned) who didn’t know about Jesus would go to limbo when they died and limbo was a great place to be. The only thing that made limbo different from heaven is that God isn’t there. I felt so sorry for those people and even back then I didn’t think it was fair. How could limbo be great without God? How horrible. But we were told they could have all the ice cream they wanted. I was just a dumb kid. I wanted the ice cream, too!!

I’ll check your reference and I’ll be very careful.

Thanks again!!

Regarding Limbo, it was never an official teaching of the church., It was put forth by certain theologians as a possiblility and more or less based on the “Bosum of Abraham” which was also called the “Limbo of the Fathers”. The church never included it in its teaching although St. Thomas Aquinas had some thoughts on it. Somehow the idea made the jump from being a theological possibility for discussion to being an unofficial teaching. To me, I always thought it was a way of saying “We don’t know” to the question of what happens to babies who die before Baptism. In any event the secular legalization of abortion does not seem to have resurrected the Limbo debate and probably just as well.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Regarding Limbo, it was never an official teaching of the church., It was put forth by certain theologians as a possiblility and more or less based on the “Bosum of Abraham” which was also called the “Limbo of the Fathers”. The church never included it in its teaching although St. Thomas Aquinas had some thoughts on it. Somehow the idea made the jump from being a theological possibility for discussion to being an unofficial teaching. To me, I always thought it was a way of saying “We don’t know” to the question of what happens to babies who die before Baptism. In any event the secular legalization of abortion does not seem to have resurrected the Limbo debate and probably just as well.

Definitely just as well!!

 

[Cinder]

I think I can shed a bit of light. While the Catholic Church is the True Church, all other Christians and pagans and in fact all others are tied to the Catholic Church through the Mass. The Mass is the ongoing crucifixion, death and ressurection of Jesus (Salvation) that is brought to all mankind. That is why the Mass is prayed every single hour of every single day of every single year. Without the Mass being prayed, there would be no salvation. Remember, there is no time in God. Calvary is happening right now,God is watching our birth, death and entrance into heaven (hopefully) right now, God is watching the wars, the birth of the Blessed Mother, all of history, right now. Without the Mass our lives and sacrifices are without merit and mean nothing other than warm fuzzies. It is the Catholic Church, much like a very large ship with lots and lots of smaller boats all tied to it, cruising on towards Jesus. It is our own choices that make us abandon ship. So the statement that there is no salvation outside the Church, is true, but it is not as cut and dried as the statement makes it sound. Without the Mass we have nothing. Choose Jesus.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Cinder,

Welcome to CAF.- I think you will find that participating in CAF is a stimulating and enriching activity. Now, on to some serious material… I really need some explanations on some of the statements you made.

I think I can shed a bit of light. While the Catholic Church is the True Church, all other Christians and pagans and in fact all others are tied to the Catholic Church through the Mass.

Now, are we counting ‘Christians’ as those who have received valid baptism, and ‘pagans’ as those who have not heard of Christ and are trying to live a God-centered life anyway? Or, is there something else? I guess I just do not understand this division you have made.

The Mass is the ongoing crucifixion, death and ressurection of Jesus (Salvation) that is brought to all mankind.

I am not sure I would explain the Mass quite like this. Christ was crucified and died once… for all (1Peter 3:18) Here are some links you may find helpful in this area:

catholic.com/library/Institution_of_the_Mass.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0109sbs.asp

catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

That is why the Mass is prayed every single hour of every single day of every single year.

I think it would be more accurate to say that we give proper worship to God every time the Mass is celebrated.

Without the Mass being prayed, there would be no salvation.

I think salvation took place when Christ died for our sins on Good Friday. The Mass has many elements that provide us with Grace - but, salvation was an event that took place in history - and then transcended all of human history so that it includes every human who ever was, is, or has yet to be.

Remember, there is no time in God. Calvary is happening right now,God is watching our birth, death and entrance into heaven (hopefully) right now, God is watching the wars, the birth of the Blessed Mother, all of history, right now.

God is eternal and is not bound by time. Christ entered time to bring about our salvation because that is the Way that He chose. I do not believe it is accurate to say that “…Calvary is happening right now…”. I think one of the links I provided address this.

Without the Mass our lives and sacrifices are without merit and mean nothing other than warm fuzzies.

I think you are addressing Christ’s Plan for our salvation - and establishing the Mass on Good Friday was a major part of it because it is at the Mass that the bread and wine are Consecrated into the Body, Blood, Human Soul and Divinity of Christ.

It is the Catholic Church, much like a very large ship with lots and lots of smaller boats all tied to it, cruising on towards Jesus. It is our own choices that make us abandon ship. So the statement that there is no salvation outside the Church, is true, but it is not as cut and dried as the statement makes it sound. Without the Mass we have nothing. Choose Jesus.

OK! I’ll go along with that… I hope my comments have been helpful.

God bless

 

[Pitcharan]

Allow me to reiterate; “A Catholic has been given or offered the salvation of Christ through His Church and in His sacraments”. Although I agree with you in that “ the majority in any religion, are either ignorant or misinformed of the teachings of their own religion”, wanton ignorance is not an excuse, that position is scriptural. Ignorance based on distorted teachings or on a person’s refusal to accept the truth or refuse to hear it is wanton.

I can only say that the kind of ignorance we see is comparable to that of the citizens of Nineveh described in the book of Jonah. Wanton ignorance, though present is limited to a lesser fraction I feel.

… But nowhere in scripture does it say God will not accept some who in heart call upon Him.

If you felt that my post implied that God does not accept those who approach Him on their own, I am sorry. There was no such idea in me. In fact, I concur totally with your above position and can even enrich it with another quote: … and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. (John 6:37b)

… The parable you speak of shows disregard or wanton ignorance on the part of one who comes without proper preparation of himself.

Exactly. this is what I meant when I mentioned unworthy and complacent.

… The Church does not “speculate” in this teaching and we are responsible to learn the Truth, that is in the teachings of Christ through His Church. What I have presented in previous posts is not a judgment of the soul of any particular man, but rather the understanding we should have in what is required based on what is proclaimed and what results may come from the choices of acceptance or refusal. I was very specific about “ only God knows the hearts of man.

Here again, I clarify that when I spoke of speculation I DID NOT refer either to our Church or to you, but to those many posters who are obviously speculating and even falsely claiming I
it to be the position of our Church.

Kind of a simplistic statement…

May sound simplistic to you; but try applying it to those posters who speculate and even define who will be saved and who damned. What better words can I use for them?

 

[Pitcharan]

John 3:5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Either you belong to the category of people, who seeing do not perceive, OR you really refuse to perceive. You are merely playing with words by mixing the word “entry” in my usage and that of our Lord.

An “entry” is there at every stage in the Salvation process. You probably believe in a single one time and all time salvation and so for you entry is just once.

Jesus never stopped anyone from coming and receiving the free offer of salvation. He explains clearly how to come and freely receive and what it takes to retain the greatest gift (ie to endure till the end) and not loose it after receiving.

I’ve also noted that you conveniently avoid queries addressed specifically to you but take pains to respond to other posts just to twist things and confuse readers.

 

[Pitcharan]

Not sure I get what you are saying here.

I am saying that the offer of salvation is for all mankind without prejudice or precondition, ie for sinners and saints alike. If someone does not believe he/she is just refusing the offer though there is NO precondition from God’s side like worthiness. And for the one who believes and receives, God can qualify the person and make him/her worthy provided if he/she simply co-operates. There are NO preconditions but instructions how to receive the gift and then not loose it but retain it by enduring till the end.

God’s special instructions concerning the greatest gift are NOT preconditions, but mere explanations how to:
(i) come forward and receive it,
(ii) avoid those foolish ways that can snatch it away, and
(iii) adopt righteous ways that enable retaining as well as becoming part of God’s team to save many more.

Salvation is a process that achieves the greatest reward finally and not a one-time event that bestows the greatest reward once and for all.

 

[AnneElliot]

I’ve also noted that you conveniently avoid queries addressed specifically to you but take pains to respond to other posts just to twist things and confuse readers.

Because many of those concerns have been answered before. I also chose not to respond to posters who seem to be too emotionally involved. Anyone can read through this thread and see where I really stand, as I have repeated multiple times: Anyone can be saved. Anyone can join the Catholic Church.

You probably believe in a single one time and all time salvation and so for you entry is just once.

I’m not sure what you mean here.

Baptism is the ‘door’ to the Church, whereby men enter into the Church, yes. Yes, baptism is a one time thing. However, people still fall into sin after baptism, and while still ‘members’ of the Church by their baptism, they are no longer living, but dead members until reconciled to God through the sacrament of Confession or an act of perfect contrition. Salvation is a process which we are to work out in fear and trembling.

 

[twb1621]

I .

*I can only say that the kind of ignorance we see is comparable to that of the citizens of Nineveh described in the book of Jonah. Wanton ignorance, though present is limited to a lesser fraction I feel.

An example of wanton ignorance is refusing to hear or consider anything (of Catholicism in this case) based on bias solely to maintain one’s pride and ego. Unfortunately that is far from lacking. I wish it were as you say, a lesser fraction.

*If you felt that my post implied that God does not accept those who approach Him on their own, I am sorry. There was no such idea in me. In fact, I concur totally with your above position and can even enrich it with another quote: … and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

(John 6:37b)
I probably didn’t understand your meaning correctly, it happens in these environments. Thank you.

*Exactly. this is what I meant when I mentioned unworthy and complacent.

Great…

*Here again, I clarify that when I spoke of speculation I DID NOT refer either to our Church or to you, but to those many posters who are obviously speculating and even falsely claiming it to be the position of our Church.

Got it clear…

*May sound simplistic to you; but try applying it to those posters who speculate and even define who will be saved and who damned. What better words can I use for them?

After clarifying these other issues, I understand your meaning. I misunderstood your intended meaning. My apologies my brother.

*I am saying that the offer of salvation is for all mankind without prejudice or precondition, ie for sinners and saints alike. If someone does not believe he/she is just refusing the offer though there is NO precondition from God’s side like worthiness

. And for the one who believes and receives, God can qualify the person and make him/her worthy provided if he/she simply co-operates. There are NO preconditions but instructions how to receive the gift and then not loose it but retain it by enduring till the end.

God’s special instructions concerning the greatest gift are NOT preconditions, but mere explanations how to:
(i) come forward and receive it,
(ii) avoid those foolish ways that can snatch it away, and
(iii) adopt righteous ways that enable retaining as well as becoming part of God’s team to save many more.

Salvation is a process that achieves the greatest reward finally and not a one-time event that bestows the greatest reward once and for all.

You are correct in that salvation is offered to all man without preconditions as you say. If someone does not believe or refuses that salvation through their own choices, that is rejection of that “offered” salvation. Any “worthiness” a person may possess would not be a precondition but rather their personal expression of their love and acceptance of God according to His teachings in their daily life.

 

[tqualey]

Hey, Cinder,

Are you still out there …? Check out post #681 … I am still waiting for a response…

God bless

I think I can shed a bit of light. While the Catholic Church is the True Church, all other Christians and pagans and in fact all others are tied to the Catholic Church through the Mass. The Mass is the ongoing crucifixion, death and ressurection of Jesus (Salvation) that is brought to all mankind. That is why the Mass is prayed every single hour of every single day of every single year. Without the Mass being prayed, there would be no salvation. Remember, there is no time in God. Calvary is happening right now,God is watching our birth, death and entrance into heaven (hopefully) right now, God is watching the wars, the birth of the Blessed Mother, all of history, right now. Without the Mass our lives and sacrifices are without merit and mean nothing other than warm fuzzies. It is the Catholic Church, much like a very large ship with lots and lots of smaller boats all tied to it, cruising on towards Jesus. It is our own choices that make us abandon ship. So the statement that there is no salvation outside the Church, is true, but it is not as cut and dried as the statement makes it sound. Without the Mass we have nothing. Choose Jesus.

 

[Pitcharan]

'Anyone can read through this thread and see where I really stand, as I have repeated multiple times: Anyone can be saved. Anyone can join the Catholic Church.

You are adamantly standing on one leg sticking to your own erroneus view and you lack the humility to accept correction and learn from others even when you hear the overhelming voice of truth going against your view. Yes, anyone can be saved not only by joining the CC in the manner you have stated. There are also other deemed members of the Lord’s mystical body as explained meticulously by many posters; and this is the teaching of the CC. You are adamantly projecting a very narrow view and closing you eyes to the truth taught by the CC even when it is glaring at you on your face

I’m not sure what you mean here. Baptism is the ‘door’ to the Church.

The door is NO precondition; it is neither a bar to entry rather a way to enter.

… Yes, baptism is a one time thing.

But it does NOT guarantee salvation once and for all.

Salvation is a process which we are to work out in fear and trembling.

The thing to be feared is SIN and its consequence. Salvation should by received with gratitude and joy. The birth of the SAVIOR brought great joy to all mankind. The joy of Christmas is unmatched by any feast ever.

 

[Pitcharan]

At the very outset let me thank you Tom for the response. I feel much better now

An example of wanton ignorance is refusing to hear or consider anything (of Catholicism in this case) based on bias solely to maintain one’s pride and ego.

It is true that pride and ego cause people to cling to their own views adamantly. But all mankind has this inherent weakness.

Our Lord had to administer extraordinary Grace in Saul to make him give up his strongly held wrong views. Later we read Paul’s confession where he honestly claims that he acted in ignorance.I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. (1Tim 1:12-14).

Now reconsider your view and I am sure you will believe that it is more of ignorance and less of wanton pride.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, AnneElliot,

As the saying goes, “The proof of the pudding is in the tasting” - and, in this case, the proof of a lack of clarity are the number of posts you have generated requesting furhter explanations that appear to be heretical. And while you may think your position leaves nothing to be desired - let me assure you, such is not the case.

Because many of those concerns have been answered before. I also chose not to respond to posters who seem to be too emotionally involved. Anyone can read through this thread and see where I really stand, as I have repeated multiple times: Anyone can be saved. Anyone can join the Catholic Church.

Your statement, “Anyone can join the Catholic Church” is an example of a statement that just begs for clarification. This sentence could be re-written to calim that anyone can do anything that they choose to do. This is not a thread about Free Will. The context your statement must address is, “No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church”… and, at least in my opinion, this is where it fails. Here is a quote (excuse the length) that addresses the matter:

**“In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that " extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”

“Note that word dogma. This teaching has been proclaimed by, among others, Pope Pelagius in 585, the Fourth Lateran Council in 1214, Pope Innocent III in 1214, Pope Boniface VIII in 1302, Pope Pius XII, Pope Paul VI, the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Dominus Iesus.”

“Our point is this: When the Church infallibly teaches extra ecclesiam, nulla salus, it does not say that non-Catholics cannot be saved. In fact, it affirms the contrary. The purpose of the teaching is to tell us how Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings.”

"There are two distinct dimensions of Jesus Christ’s redemption. Objective redemption is what Jesus Christ has accomplished once for all in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension: the redemption of the whole universe. Yet the benefits of that redemption have to be applied unceasingly to Christ’s members throughout their lives. This is subjective redemption. If the benefits of Christ’s redemption are not applied to individuals, they have no share in his objective redemption. Redemption in an individual is an ongoing process. “Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling; for God is at work in you” (Phil. 2:12–13).

“How does Jesus Christ work out his redemption in individuals? Through his mystical body. When I was a Protestant, I (like Protestants in general) believed that the phrase “mystical body of Christ” was essentially a metaphor. For Catholics, the phrase is literal truth.”**

I would recommend you read the entire article: catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

With so many posts going back and forth - from so many different posters - I think, in all charity, it is time you looked at your own statements and see how they are skating quite close to to the condemned teachings of Feeney.

On another topic, I went to the sites you gave me, and saw nothing that would have me believe Feeney’s heresy is alive and well in this diocese. All I can conclude is that the Church’s position on, “Outside of the Cathoic Chruch there is no salvation” is being properly observed and you have been mislead into thinking this diocese has abandoned the teachings of Rome.

I’m not sure what you mean here.

Baptism is the ‘door’ to the Church, whereby men enter into the Church, yes. Yes, baptism is a one time thing. However, people still fall into sin after baptism, and while still ‘members’ of the Church by their baptism, they are no longer living, but dead members until reconciled to God through the sacrament of Confession or an act of perfect contrition. Salvation is a process which we are to work out in fear and trembling.

 

[twb1621]

At the very outset let me thank you Tom for the response. I feel much better now

It is true that pride and ego cause people to cling to their own views adamantly. But all mankind has this inherent weakness.

Our Lord had to administer extraordinary Grace in Saul to make him give up his strongly held wrong views. Later we read Paul’s confession where he honestly claims that he acted in ignorance.I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. (1Tim 1:12-14).

Now reconsider your view and I am sure you will believe that it is more of ignorance and less of wanton pride.

my words were wonton ignorance, not wanton pride. the pride we all have in us and struggle with to some degree or other.
My brother, forgive my personal reflection at the risk of boring you (or others), but I began my career in municipal law enforcement at age 21 and went deeply into many areas of criminal and later civil investigations and research with the majority of this time in the federal arena assigned in conjunction with individual state drug task forces, then DEA, ATF Customs, US Marshals… Until my inspired turn around 6 years ago I never as an adult, knew what it was like NOT to carry a firearm or have to secretly evaluate every person in my immediate surroundings, working or not.

To keep it short (this time) Of the last three years I have spent a great deal of time (as many others here) defending and attempting to clear misconceptions of the faith with non practicing or ill informed Catholics, non-Catholic and non-believing individuals. All in all, I have dealt with some of the worst parts of evil in humanity in the “free world” giving witness for victims during my legal career.

In recent years, in my meager efforts to serve Our Lord, I have come to meet the unfortunate sufferers of distorted teachings, misconceptions and those who embrace “wanton” ignorance, who’s only drawback to full Christianity was pride. Many I sympathize with, as to acknowledge the truth would mean acknowledging misconceptions or distorted teachings and unwarranted condemnations by perhaps by their loved ones and even their heritage. That’s not an easy acknowledgment to make. But believe me when I say, I have first hand experience and I am a witness to many things I would not have chosen at times to witness. Much of what I have seen most Americans would not want to acknowledge as part of their society. One thing I assure you; do not think I predetermine everyone grouping them in judgment, but rather I see each individual independently and compassionately, and my experience, in a way not unlike Paul, allows me to better understand their position through my own past way of living and my experiences with others. This is why I do not shield my shameful past but freely relate it at times when it seems appropriate to those I feel MAY benefit in their own recognition of where I have been and that I am not unlike many of them.

 

[twb1621]

One thing I would like to make clear from my previous post;
when I said "All in all, I have dealt with some of the worst parts of evil in humanity in the “free world” giving witness for victims during my legal career ", This was not in any way to suggest a relationship between those I delt with in criminal law to those whom I have had discussions with in matters of faith, obviously there is no comparison between them but rather it was to express a variety of experiences related and unrelated, with others in general. I am not alone in such experiences. The sentances were out of place and I apologize for not being able to correct it in time.

 

[AnneElliot]

On another topic, I went to the sites you gave me, and saw nothing that would have me believe Feeney’s heresy is alive and well in this diocese. All I can conclude is that the Church’s position on, “Outside of the Cathoic Chruch there is no salvation” is being properly observed and you have been mislead into thinking this diocese has abandoned the teachings of Rome.

I think you missed a few things on the websites of the religious communities I gave to you. If this is not sufficient, you are free to contact these communities for yourself to have them assure you that they do, in fact, still hold and teach the same position as Fr. Feeney on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus AND they do this with the support and knowledge of the Bishop of the Diocese of Worcester, MA.

Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience, not heresy. There is no Church document condemning “Feeneyism” as heresy.

http://www.sistersofstbenedictcenter.org/

“In 1949, under the direction of Father Feeney and Catherine Clarke and concerned with the growing attacks on Catholic doctrine, many Center men and women organized into a religious community called the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The primary focus of the community was to preserve Catholic teaching, particularly the doctrine of the necessity of the Church for salvation.”

“Our charism inspires in us a deep love of the Church, to whose infallible teachings we submit the complete obedience of our intellect and to whose authority we yield the entire submission of our will. “One cannot love Christ without loving the Church which Christ loves” (Pope Paul VI, Evangelii Nuntiandi, 16). We endeavor to bring as many souls as possible into the one ark of salvation, knowing that “one cannot have God for his Father, if he does not have the Church for his Mother” (St. Cyprian, De Unitate, 6, 8).”

Welcome - Saint Benedict Center

saintbenedict.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BL&Category_Code=OBS
(They sell Fr. Feeney’s book “Bread of Life” in addition to several other of Fr. Feeney’s writings)

“Political pressure was exerted on Cardinal Cushing, who at one time promoted the great work of the Center, to now close it… Father Feeney, identifying the ruse, knew his departure was signaling the surrender of the Faith to political powers. Father refused to obey the order, stating it was spurred on by pressure, and demanded a hearing. The fight suddenly shifted to a journalistic campaign denouncing Father for spreading the “malicious” dogma that there was “no Salvation outside the Church.”
Up to this time every Catholic believed this, a fact verified by the example of martyrs. The unrelenting condemnation of Father Feeney resulted in his supposed “excommunication” without due process. Father kept to his preaching, moving from the Center to the Boston Common. Crowds listened to him preach while others taunted him even spitting on him and his followers. Every newspaper condemned him, ruining his good name, even removing his literature from Catholic textbooks. Father appealed to Rome, but was buried in an avalanche of slander. He predicted that if the dogma of salvation was successfully obliterated in Boston, the Church would cease to exist there. Fifty years later, 84 of the churches in the Archdiocese have been closed.”

“In 1971, Humberto Cardinal Medeiros, the successor to Cushing, initiated a “reconciliation” of Father Feeney through the Benedictines, in whose house Father was living at the time. In 1972, The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith expressed a desire also to reconcile Father. On August 23, 1972, without retracting anything, Father Feeney recited the Creed which was witnessed and attested to by an auxiliary bishop from Boston and a priest. On November 22, 1972, Father Feeney was informed that he was now “reconciled” with the Church, Pope Paul VI having “lifted any censors, if there were any."”

“In 2002, Bishop Reilly of Worcester came to the Center and after a ceremony in the Chapel where the community recited and signed a copy of the Creed, he gave his formal blessing and “regularized” the community in the diocese. His successor, Bishop McManus has come to the Chapel several times since then to administer the sacrament of Confirmation in the Traditional Rite to the student of IHM.”

“With the help of God we pray to continue the legacy of our founder Father Leonard Feeney, in the spirit of St. Louis De Montfort.
All for Jesus through Mary.”

“A continual studying of Scripture and the writings of the Saints enables the Brothers to be dynamic apologists in the distribution of the works of the Order. This is done at conferences and in a street ministry where they bring the Faith to the market place. They do this zealously, convincingly, “in pure truth, according to the Gospel and not according to the maxims of the world,” contrary to today’s widespread errors which minimize, and even can be said to nullify, the teachings of Christ and His Church on the message of salvation.”

“These spiritual efforts are dedicated to sanctifying their own lives and furthering the apostolic and doctrinal crusade of Saint Benedict Center which includes defending the dogma of The One True Church and belief in the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.”

A few of their recent articles on Limbo and the necessity of Baptism:
saintbenedict.com/apostolates/mancipia-press/8-pointpamphlet/31-point-january-2001.html
saintbenedict.com/apostolates/mancipia-press/8-pointpamphlet/30-point-january-2006.html

 

[Pitcharan]

One thing I would like to make clear from my previous post;
when I said "All in all, I have dealt with some of the worst parts of evil in humanity in the “free world” giving witness for victims during my legal career ", This was not in any way to suggest a relationship between those I delt with in criminal law to those whom I have had discussions with in matters of faith, obviously there is no comparison between them but rather it was to express a variety of experiences related and unrelated, with others in general. I am not alone in such experiences. The sentances were out of place and I apologize for not being able to correct it in time.

My dear Tom,
your zeal truly inspires me. I am not undermining the danger of wanton ignorance. I too happen to have been wantonly ignorant for several years, even ridiculing the truths taught by our church and bending backwards to see sanctity in false teachings. I was also drawn to consider heretic teachings. I was saved by extraordinary grace similar to that of St. Paul (read my post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6839524&postcount=35). Having once been guilty of this particular sin and now after being freed by divine intervention, I am able to understand that the sin is more of “ignorance” and less of “wantonness”. The ignorance is in fact a blinding caused by pride; that is why I used the word “wanton pride”. This blindness can draw a person into varieties of perverse things which will project the person in the worst light and make him/her a detestable guy. But the HS knows it is ignorance. Otherwise why do you think God would administer exraordinary Grace and save such a person. You have read how Saul behaved before his conversion; you have read his confession of having been the worst of sinners; you also know that he was saved in an extraordinary manner. And so was I.
A big thanks for all what you shared with genuine love and humility and
warm regards
Pitcharan

 

[itinerant1]

Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience, not heresy. There is no Church document condemning “Feeneyism” as heresy.

Are there Church documents condemning Charles Curran or Hans Kung?

Fr. Feeney was, nonetheless heretical, in his intepretation of “no salvation outside the Church.” Nobody denies that fact except un-repentant Feeneyites.

 

[Pitcharan]

Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for disobedience, not heresy. There is no Church document condemning “Feeneyism” as heresy.

Are there Church documents condemning Charles Curran or Hans Kung?

Fr. Feeney was, nonetheless heretical, in his intepretation of “no salvation outside the Church.” Nobody denies that fact except un-repentant Feeneyites…

… and shameless lovers of darkness

 

[twb1621]

My dear Tom,
your zeal truly inspires me. I am not undermining the danger of wanton ignorance. I too happen to have been wantonly ignorant for several years, even ridiculing the truths taught by our church and bending backwards to see sanctity in false teachings. I was also drawn to consider heretic teachings. I was saved by extraordinary grace similar to that of St. Paul (read my post forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6839524&postcount=35). Having once been guilty of this particular sin and now after being freed by divine intervention, I am able to understand that the sin is more of “ignorance” and less of “wantonness”. The ignorance is in fact a blinding caused by pride; that is why I used the word “wanton pride”. This blindness can draw a person into varieties of perverse things which will project the person in the worst light and make him/her a detestable guy. But the HS knows it is ignorance. Otherwise why do you think God would administer exraordinary Grace and save such a person. You have read how Saul behaved before his conversion; you have read his confession of having been the worst of sinners; you also know that he was saved in an extraordinary manner. And so was I.
A big thanks for all what you shared with genuine love and humility and
warm regards
Pitcharan

Peace my brother, and may God’s grace always fill your heart and your pockets remain empty… figuratively speaking…