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itinerant1
Guest
It looks like you did not bother to read the entire article.
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AnneElliot
Guest
touchéHowever, as I mentioned above, this was not always the case. It is a more modern distinction (because of the Great Schism and Protestantism) to distinguish between “catechumens” and “candidates”.
Not that I’m aware of, but it has been my understanding that all martyrs are baptized by their blood… it is a second baptism, not a replacement for sacramental baptism.I did read it.
I quoted from Pope Innocent III earlier in my reply regarding Trent’s use of “or the desire for it”. Neither Trent nor Pope Innocent III say anything about “baptism of desire” replacing sacramental Baptism. I can type up the entire page and half from my Denzinger of Pope Innocent III if you want to read it.
“Baptism of desire” is not found in ANY Papal or Conciliar text… you don’t find that the slightest bit odd? How can a doctrine of the Church never be explicitly mentioned?
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itinerant1
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Back to basics: What the Church teaches…
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation” (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16).
“For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament” (CCC 1259).
Pope Pius IX wrote in Quanto conficiamur moerore, 7: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.”
The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that “for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
The Church expressly teaches that “it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God” (Singulari Quadam), that “outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control” (Singulari Quidem), that “they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life” (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore).
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation” (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16).
“For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament” (CCC 1259).
Pope Pius IX wrote in Quanto conficiamur moerore, 7: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.”
The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that “for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
The Church expressly teaches that “it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God” (Singulari Quadam), that “outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control” (Singulari Quidem), that “they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life” (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore).
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itinerant1
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Not sure what your point is, when we were originally talking about the early Church.
However, as I mentioned above, this was not always the case. It is a more modern distinction (because of the Great Schism and Protestantism) to distinguish between “catechumens” and “candidates”.
If you did read the article then you would know that the blood baptism (baptismus sanguinis) can be a substitute for the Sacrament of Baptism, i.e. the martyr may have never had the chance to be formally baptized.
I did read it.
Trent mentions ‘baptism “or” the desire’, which you prefer to interpret as “and”. Remember? The question was whether “aut” represents an inclusive “or” as equivalent to the English “and”; or was it and exclusive “or”.
Look again and see what is necessarily implied in the quotes found in my last post. On this one, most people can read the writing on the wall.
Isn’t it odd that your position contradicts what the Church explicitly teaches about invincible ignorance, catechumens dying without Baptism, blood baptism, and so on?
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AnneElliot
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Keep reading…
“Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a **preparation **for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life… Wherefore to promote the glory of God and **procure **the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”, the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.””
Pope Pius IX wrote in Quanto conficiamur moerore, 7: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine **light **and grace since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.”
The 2000 declaration Dominus Iesus of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states that “for those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but **enlightens **them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit; it has a relationship with the Church, which, according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit.” ALSO from Dominus Iesus: “**If **it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.” AND “the Church, guided by charity and respect for freedom, must be primarily committed to proclaiming to all people the truth definitively revealed by the Lord, and to announcing the **necessity **of conversion to Jesus Christ **and **of adherence to the **Church **through **Baptism **and the other sacraments, in order to participate fully in communion with God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus, the certainty of the universal salvific will of God does not diminish, but rather increases the duty and urgency of the proclamation of salvation and of conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ.”
The Church expressly teaches that “it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God” (Singulari Quadam), that “The Church clearly declares that the only hope of salvation for mankind is placed in the Christian faith, which teaches the truth, scatters the darkness of ignorance by the splendor of its light, and works through love. This hope of salvation is placed in the Catholic Church which, in preserving the true worship, is the solid home of this faith and the temple of God. Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control” (Singulari Quidem), that “they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine **light **and grace, attain eternal life” (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore).
Is it your contention that baptism of desire/blood, etc. rest on implications that we must read into Papal and Conciliar texts?
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AnneElliot
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The Church does not teach anything explicit about baptism of desire, baptism by blood, etc. There is no Papal or Conciliar document that mentions the phrase “baptism of desire”.
If you read the documents you posted above regarding invincible ignorance you will see that they end with ignorance being remedied somehow by the “efficacious virtue of divine light =knowledge that “scatters the darkness of ignorance”] and grace”, and that those invincibly ignorant who “keep the natural law” and “strive to live a good life” are being “prepared” (by God) “for the Gospel”. And that to “procure their salvation” the “Church fosters the missions with care and attention” all the while maintaining that those “ignorant of the Faith will not be held guilty IN THIS MATTER” (that is, the matter of infidelity, if they have violated the natural law they are culpable for that).
… Can you give me an example of some other doctrine the Church teaches which is taught only implicitly in Papal and/or Conciliar documents, or is “baptism of desire” etc. the only one?
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itinerant1
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Your interpretation makes no sense, whatsoever. The state of invincible ignorance is not turned into a state of knowledge in regard to that in which the person is invincibly ignorant. Otherwise, it would not be a case of invincible ignorance. It’s that simple. You need to understand what is meant by invincible ignorance. Get the facts first. You can distort them later.
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itinerant1
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“Keep reading” ?? LOL. I’ve already read the documents.
And what’s with the underlines? All that your underlining tells me is that you do not correctly understand what you are reading. Either you are incapable of correct interpretation (invincible ignorance), or, you are willfully denying the correct interpretation (obstinance).
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itinerant1
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Underline this: 
Augustine says that, “some have received the invisible sanctification without visible sacraments, and to their profit; but though it is possible to have the visible sanctification, consisting in a visible sacrament, without the invisible sanctification, it will be to no profit” (Super Levit. lxxxiv).
Aquinas says: “Since, therefore, the sacrament of Baptism pertains to the visible sanctification, it seems that a man can obtain salvation without the sacrament of Baptism, by means of the invisible sanctification.” (STh III q. 68, a. 2, s.c.)
“As stated above (1, ad 2; 68, 2) man receives the forgiveness of sins before Baptism in so far as he has Baptism of desire, explicitly or implicitly; and yet when he actually receives Baptism, he receives a fuller remission, as to the remission of the entire punishment. So also before Baptism Cornelius and others like him receive grace and virtues through their faith in Christ and their desire for Baptism, implicit or explicit: but afterwards when baptized, they receive a yet greater fulness of grace and virtues. Hence in Psalm 22:2, “He hath brought me up on the water of refreshment,” a gloss says: “He has brought us up by an increase of virtue and good deeds in Baptism.””
(STh III, q. 69, a. 4.)
“No man obtains eternal life unless he be free from all guilt and debt of punishment. Now this plenary absolution is given when a man receives Baptism, or suffers martyrdom: for which reason is it stated that martyrdom “contains all the sacramental virtue of Baptism,” i.e. as to the full deliverance from guilt and punishment. Suppose, therefore, a catechumen to have the desire for Baptism (else he could not be said to die in his good works, which cannot be without “faith that worketh by charity”), such a one, were he to die, would not forthwith come to eternal life, but would suffer punishment for his past sins, “but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire” as is stated 1 Corinthians 3:15.” (STh III 68 a. 2 ad 2)
“If, however, some were saved without receiving any revelation, they were not saved without faith in a Mediator, for, though they did not believe in Him explicitly, they did, nevertheless, have implicit faith through believing in Divine providence, since they believed that God would deliver mankind in whatever way was pleasing to Him, and according to the revelation of the Spirit to those who knew the truth, as stated in Job 35:11: “Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth.”” (STh II-II q. 2 a. 7 ad 3)
“Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Savior wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience–those too many achieve eternal salvation (Lumen Gentium 16).”
Augustine says that, “some have received the invisible sanctification without visible sacraments, and to their profit; but though it is possible to have the visible sanctification, consisting in a visible sacrament, without the invisible sanctification, it will be to no profit” (Super Levit. lxxxiv).
Aquinas says: “Since, therefore, the sacrament of Baptism pertains to the visible sanctification, it seems that a man can obtain salvation without the sacrament of Baptism, by means of the invisible sanctification.” (STh III q. 68, a. 2, s.c.)
“As stated above (1, ad 2; 68, 2) man receives the forgiveness of sins before Baptism in so far as he has Baptism of desire, explicitly or implicitly; and yet when he actually receives Baptism, he receives a fuller remission, as to the remission of the entire punishment. So also before Baptism Cornelius and others like him receive grace and virtues through their faith in Christ and their desire for Baptism, implicit or explicit: but afterwards when baptized, they receive a yet greater fulness of grace and virtues. Hence in Psalm 22:2, “He hath brought me up on the water of refreshment,” a gloss says: “He has brought us up by an increase of virtue and good deeds in Baptism.””
(STh III, q. 69, a. 4.)
“No man obtains eternal life unless he be free from all guilt and debt of punishment. Now this plenary absolution is given when a man receives Baptism, or suffers martyrdom: for which reason is it stated that martyrdom “contains all the sacramental virtue of Baptism,” i.e. as to the full deliverance from guilt and punishment. Suppose, therefore, a catechumen to have the desire for Baptism (else he could not be said to die in his good works, which cannot be without “faith that worketh by charity”), such a one, were he to die, would not forthwith come to eternal life, but would suffer punishment for his past sins, “but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire” as is stated 1 Corinthians 3:15.” (STh III 68 a. 2 ad 2)
“If, however, some were saved without receiving any revelation, they were not saved without faith in a Mediator, for, though they did not believe in Him explicitly, they did, nevertheless, have implicit faith through believing in Divine providence, since they believed that God would deliver mankind in whatever way was pleasing to Him, and according to the revelation of the Spirit to those who knew the truth, as stated in Job 35:11: “Who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth.”” (STh II-II q. 2 a. 7 ad 3)
“Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Savior wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience–those too many achieve eternal salvation (Lumen Gentium 16).”
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itinerant1
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The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X states
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Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
The Council of Trent pronounced the dogma of the baptism of desire when it stated: “the state of grace cannot be had except through the laver of regeneration or a desire for it”. This Tridentine teaching has since supported all subsequent recognition that actual membership in the Church is not required in order to be saved. Vatican II expounded on the necessity of the Church, except to those innocently unaware that her foundation by God through Christ made it a necessity.
St. Alphonsus Liguori in his commentary on the “Works of the Council of Trent”, stated:
“Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament.”
Excerpted from St Alphonsus Liguori on the Council of Trent: An Exposition and Defense of all the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent; Along with a Refutation of Errors of the Pretended Reformers and the Objections of Fra Paolo Sarpi.
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Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
The Council of Trent pronounced the dogma of the baptism of desire when it stated: “the state of grace cannot be had except through the laver of regeneration or a desire for it”. This Tridentine teaching has since supported all subsequent recognition that actual membership in the Church is not required in order to be saved. Vatican II expounded on the necessity of the Church, except to those innocently unaware that her foundation by God through Christ made it a necessity.
St. Alphonsus Liguori in his commentary on the “Works of the Council of Trent”, stated:
“Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament.”
Excerpted from St Alphonsus Liguori on the Council of Trent: An Exposition and Defense of all the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent; Along with a Refutation of Errors of the Pretended Reformers and the Objections of Fra Paolo Sarpi.
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Pitcharan
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Incorrigibility and Obstinancy are hallmarks of the Lovers of Darkness
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itinerant1
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We need to tone it down on the extraneous remarks. Kapeesh?
Charity in all things. If that doesn’t work, then we can ramp-up the remarks.
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Pitcharan
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Are you seeing any signs of it working?We need to tone it down on the extraneous remarks. Kapeesh?
Charity in all things. If that doesn’t work, then we can ramp-up the remarks.
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itinerant1
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It’s all in how you define “working”. Regardless of what Anne herself may think, judging from the feedback I have received via PM, most observers of this thread are able to see the weaknesses in her arguments. They can also see, in contrast, what the Church actually teaches. So, it is definitely working, working for others, that is, thanks to Anne’s theological errors.
Peace out, and Truth out!
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sidbrown
Guest
Yes, I agree with you that Baptism of desire has been taught as you have outlined it here.
And at the present time, the Catholic Church teaches that Jews, and other nonCatholics can be saved. But was this always the teaching, or has the teaching changed?
Unless I am misreading or mistinterpreting the words, it looks to me like the teaching has changed on this since before we read:
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is wholly necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Unam Sanctam
Pope Eugenius IV, A.D. 1431-1447, at Council of Florence: “It [the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that none of those outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but neither Jews, nor heretics and schismatics, can become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life they have been added to the Church; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practised, even if he has shed [his] blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
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Pitcharan
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Certainly and I give you and Tqualey full marks on that. We all readers applaud you for keeping the flag of truth flying high. I benefited greatly in terms of learning and this would not have happened but for Anne provoking you to bring out these truths.
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Pitcharan
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I am aware that the CC has been solemnizing marriages between a catholic and a follower of any other religion, since a very, very long time. They would not be doing so, if they believed that non-catholics are hell bound. This goes to prove that the CC believes in salvation being possible for non-catholics even without their having to convert. Also check out this earlier post of mine on another thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6966907&postcount=770
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itinerant1
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The necessity of Baptism and belonging to the Church have always been taught. Along with those teachings, from the earliest times, the doctrines that have been taught as complimenting the aforementioned teachings was the possiblity of being saved extra-sacramentally through the Baptism of Desire and the Baptism of Blood.
The Church has always made allowances for those pagans who can saved by means of following the dictates of the natural moral law. The possibility of being saved despite a condition of invincible ignorance has also been taught. These exceptions apply to those, who through no fault of their own, are unaware of the Church or unaware of the necessity of belonging the Church. If their dispositions are such that they would join the Church if they knew about it, and likewise accept Baptism, and so on, they are considered to be in the Church implicitly and spiritually, though not physically.
If baptism by water is impossible, it may be replaced by the baptism of desire, or by the baptism of blood, as in the case of those who suffer martyrdom for the faith of Christ.
Example: St. Ambrose had no doubt about the salvation of Valentinian the Younger, who has asked for baptism, but had died before the saint could reach him (“De Obitu Valentini.”, n. 51, P.L. XVI, 1374). Hence the common teaching was that the defect of baptism might be supplied by desire, called the Baptism of Desire.
Martyrdom for Christ’s sake is the baptism of blood. This the Holy Innocents received, and the Church commemorates them as saints. All unbaptized persons who suffer martyrdom for the Christian faith, for some act of Christian virtue, or the fulfilment of a Christian duty, also received the baptism of blood. Witness St. John Baptist; or St. Emerentiana, who while yet a catechumen, was found by the pagans praying at St. Agnes’ tomb, and was put to death by them. The Church does not pray for the unbaptized who suffer death for Christ; for He Himself says, “He that shall lose his life for Me, shall find it.” (Matt. x. 39).
St. Augustine says, “Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ—it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, ‘Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’ [Matt. 10:32]” (The City of God 13:7 [A.D. 419]).
In regard to *Unam Sanctum *or other Church documents, they are often read out of context and thus misinterpreted. One does not properly understand the Bull on Papal Supremacy unless he understands something of the historical situation of Boniface VIII’s dispute with Philip the Fair, King of France. Boniface outlines and demarcates the differing spheres of authority of the secular powers and the Church or religious authority, within the context of mediaeval society. In religious matters, all are to be subject to the papal authority of the Church.
Likewise is correct interpretation of Pope Eugenius IV statement to be made in the context of history, and the context of the Church’s understanding of what it means to be “in the Church.” Those who culpably reject the Church certainly place their salvation in jeopardy, we can say in a general way that they are doomed (though any individual’s fate is known only to God). But as we have seen, there remains the possibility of salvation to those who through no fault of their own remain physically outside of the Church. That is, one may be “in the Church” implicitly and spiritually though not visibly. Another way to word it is to say that one can be in the visible Church invisibly.
See posts # 880 and 886 for further explanation.
St. Augustine says that, “some have received the invisible sanctification without visible sacraments, and to their profit; but though it is possible to have the visible sanctification, consisting in a visible sacrament, without the invisible sanctification, it will be to no profit” (Super Levit. lxxxiv).
St. Thomas Aquinas says: “Since, therefore, the sacrament of Baptism pertains to the visible sanctification, it seems that a man can obtain salvation without the sacrament of Baptism, by means of the invisible sanctification.” (STh III q. 68, a. 2, s.c.)
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itinerant1
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Having pulled out my copy of the Council of Trent (Denzinger), I see that the Council clearly teaches the baptism of desire when it says, "…and this translation after the promulgation of the Gospel cannot be effected except through the laver of regeneration, or a desire for it, as it is written…"
Since “or a desire for it” having been set apart by commas thereby rules out as a possibility that strained interpretation, which joins it to the previous clause, “the laver of regeneration”, as if the two expressions supposedly referred to the Sacrament of Baptism. To the contrary, what is being designated in the aforementioned text (796) is both the “Sacrament of Baptism”, and the “Baptism of Desire”.
This is precisely the intererpretion given the text by St. Alphonsus Liguori in his commentary on the “Works of the Council of Trent”, when he stated:
“Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament.”
Any questions? :coffeeread:
Since “or a desire for it” having been set apart by commas thereby rules out as a possibility that strained interpretation, which joins it to the previous clause, “the laver of regeneration”, as if the two expressions supposedly referred to the Sacrament of Baptism. To the contrary, what is being designated in the aforementioned text (796) is both the “Sacrament of Baptism”, and the “Baptism of Desire”.
This is precisely the intererpretion given the text by St. Alphonsus Liguori in his commentary on the “Works of the Council of Trent”, when he stated:
“Who can deny that the act of perfect love of God, which is sufficient for justification, includes an implicit desire of Baptism, of Penance, and of the Eucharist. He who wishes the whole wishes the every part of that whole and all the means necessary for its attainment. In order to be justified without baptism, an infidel must love God above all things, and must have an universal will to observe all the divine precepts, among which the first is to receive baptism: and therefore in order to be justified it is necessary for him to have at least an implicit desire of that sacrament.”
Any questions? :coffeeread:
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AnneElliot
Guest
So, am I safe in saying that you cannot provide any other doctrine which the Church teaches only implicitly in her Papal/Conciliar documents? “baptism of desire” is a teaching of the Church, yet the phrase cannot be found in ANY Papal/Conciliar decree? 
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