No Salvation Outside the Church?

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Hey everyone-
I’m sorry if this has already been addressed a million times, but I couldn’t seem to find anything on this searching through the website. I’m a member of an internet community, and trying to explain to a Jewish man what exactly the Church’s teaching is on salvation for non-believers. Not exactly an easy task. Do you have any resources, such as articles written in easy language, for me that I can give him? Thanks!
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says.

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 and when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
 
Church Militant said:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says.

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 and when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
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Thanks for the quote; I forgot to mention that he’s convinced that the Church teaches that all Jews are going to hell. So this is a really good one.
 
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Supergirl:
I’m sorry if this has already been addressed a million times
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you are right, please, try the thread Outside the Church there is no salvation. It is closed now, but you can find very useful arguments there.
 
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barsapp:
you are right, please, try the thread Outside the Church there is no salvation. It is closed now, but you can find very useful arguments there.
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Thanks!
 
Church Militant:
."325
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

.
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OK. But I would be interested in your opinion of the article by Mr. Keating:
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fr.asp
 
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stanley123:
OK. But I would be interested in your opinion of the article by Mr. Keating:
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fr.asp
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I read that article when Karl first published it and my thought was “so what.” I have no doubt that His Holiness does not aggressively evangelize our Jewish friends, nor did John Paul II.

I have found that my Jewish friends, and I have a buddy who is Hasidic, enjoy a good discussion of our respective faiths, but that they are revolted by the arguments and allegations of most n-Cs who attempt to evangelize them.

One thing that I have discovered is that Judaism is far more complex than I had known and that my own ignorance got in the way of my attempts to share with my Jewish friends. Did you know, just for instance, that the Jews have a concept of purgatory similar to our own beliefs? I was floored to learn that in talking with my Hasidic friend.

The Jews (God Be Good To Them) are very sensitive to persecution for their religion (with understandable cause, I think) and from some of the efforts that I have seen by n-Cs, who approach them about the same way they do us Catholics (You’d’ve had to been there to understand the laughter that my friend and I shared when an n-C jumped us both for being non-Christian :rolleyes: ). The point is that all evangelism must be the result of love for the person in question and not some sort of ego-feeding “presentation” of “the way of salvation”.

Sharing your faith with a friend is one thing. Insulting and aggressive ignorance is another matter alltogether.
Pax tecum,
 
Church Militant:
The Jews (God Be Good To Them) are very sensitive to persecution for their religion (with understandable cause, I think) and from some of the efforts that I have seen by n-Cs, who approach them about the same way they do us Catholics
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This is an interesting thought and one that has never occurred to me. I have only known a couple of Jewish co-workers and will bear this in mind in my interaction with them. Thanks.
 
Well - you have Cyprian’s “No Salvation oustide of the Church” which you kind of need to interpret “vertically” - thus reducing the statement to a tautology in that there is no Salvation ouside of the Church becasue “The Church” incorporates all those that are saved!!

I sometimes wonder whether the “No salvation oustide of the Church” thing was the closest the Church has come to falling into error. I can almost here the HS breathing a sigh of relief - phew - that was a close one
 
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pilchard:
Well - you have Cyprian’s “No Salvation oustide of the Church” which you kind of need to interpret “vertically” - thus reducing the statement to a tautology in that there is no Salvation ouside of the Church becasue “The Church” incorporates all those that are saved!!

I sometimes wonder whether the “No salvation oustide of the Church” thing was the closest the Church has come to falling into error. I can almost here the HS breathing a sigh of relief - phew - that was a close one
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Y’know… you just might be right. Truth is truth, but sometimes it’s such a big powerful truth that it gets away from our capacity to think it through…or in the case of the reformation era, the rhetoric gets outta control. (and look at the damage that has caused…)
Pax tecum,
 
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Supergirl:
Hey everyone-
I’m sorry if this has already been addressed a million times, but I couldn’t seem to find anything on this searching through the website. I’m a member of an internet community, and trying to explain to a Jewish man what exactly the Church’s teaching is on salvation for non-believers. Not exactly an easy task. Do you have any resources, such as articles written in easy language, for me that I can give him? Thanks!
Click to expand...
The new compendium to the CCC states:

*Q.171. What is the meaning of the affirmation: “There is no salvation outside the Church”?

A. It means that all salvation comes from Christ-Head through the Church, which is his Body. Therefore, those cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, do not enter it and do not persevere. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those can attain eternal salvation who, without fault, do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church, but seek God sincerely and, under the influence of grace, try to do his will known through the dictates of their conscience.*
 
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Vidar:
The new compendium to the CCC states:

Q.171. What is the meaning of the affirmation: “There is no salvation outside the Church”?

A. It means that all salvation comes from Christ-Head through the Church, which is his Body. Therefore, those cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, do not enter it and do not persevere. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those can attain eternal salvation who, without fault, do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church, but seek God sincerely and, under the influence of grace, try to do his will known through the dictates of their conscience.
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What does the Compendium say about our Protestant and Orthodox brethren? Surely the following still applies to them:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272 819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

And further, from the Catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

I haven’t found the compendium in a bookstore. Can anyone provide a link?
 
****Council of Florence (1438-1445) (****From the Bull “Cantate Domino”, February 4, 1441) It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
 
barsapp said:
****Council of Florence (1438-1445) (****From the Bull “Cantate Domino”, February 4, 1441) It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41]
, unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
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That teaching has been expanded upon, not negated, but clarified. See the quote from the CCC in post 12. Those born into those seperated communities “cannot be charged with the sin of seperation.”
 
Encyclical of Pius IX Quanto Conficiamur Moerore August 10, 1863
  1. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
  2. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom “the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior.”[4] The words of Christ are clear enough: “If he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you a Gentile and a tax collector;”[5] “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me;”[6] “He who does not believe will be condemned;”[7] “He who does not believe is already condemned;”[8] “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”[9] The Apostle Paul says that such persons are “perverted and self-condemned;”[10] the Prince of the Apostles calls them “false teachers . . . who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master. . . bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”[11]
  3. God forbid that the children of the Catholic Church should even in any way be unfriendly to those who are not at all united to us by the same bonds of faith and love. On the contrary, let them be eager always to attend to their needs with all the kind services of Christian charity, whether they are poor or sick or suffering any other kind of visitation. First of all, let them rescue them from the darkness of the errors into which they have unhappily fallen and strive to guide them back to Catholic truth and to their most loving Mother who is ever holding out her maternal arms to receive them lovingly back into her fold. Thus, firmly founded in faith, hope, and charity and fruitful in every good work, they will gain eternal salvation.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
That teaching has been expanded upon, not negated, but clarified. See the quote from the CCC in post 12. Those born into those seperated communities “cannot be charged with the sin of seperation.”
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Very well said my friend. :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
Humani Generis ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII CONCERNING SOME FALSE OPINIONS THREATENING TO UNDERMINE THE FOUNDATIONS OF CATHOLIC DOCTRINE AUGUST 12, 1950 ”Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation.”
 
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barsapp:
Encyclical of Pius IX Quanto Conficiamur Moerore August 10, 1863
  1. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
  2. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom “the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior.”[4] The words of Christ are clear enough: “If he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you a Gentile and a tax collector;”[5] “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me;”[6] “He who does not believe will be condemned;”[7] “He who does not believe is already condemned;”[8] “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”[9] The Apostle Paul says that such persons are “perverted and self-condemned;”[10] the Prince of the Apostles calls them “false teachers . . . who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master. . . bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”[11]
  3. God forbid that the children of the Catholic Church should even in any way be unfriendly to those who are not at all united to us by the same bonds of faith and love. On the contrary, let them be eager always to attend to their needs with all the kind services of Christian charity, whether they are poor or sick or suffering any other kind of visitation. First of all, let them rescue them from the darkness of the errors into which they have unhappily fallen and strive to guide them back to Catholic truth and to their most loving Mother who is ever holding out her maternal arms to receive them lovingly back into her fold. Thus, firmly founded in faith, hope, and charity and fruitful in every good work, they will gain eternal salvation.
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Well and good, but you still have to reckon with the CCC. The only way to reconcile the two is to say that the Church understands them to be a part of her already, by virtue of their baptism and faith in Christ. “Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.” In other words, the circle is larger. Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." We have to be able to reconcile what you quoted with what I quoted, because we know that the Magisterium cannot contradict itself or tradition or scripture. The Pope promulgated the CCC as a “sure norm” for teaching the faith, ie., to the universal Church on a matter of faith and morals. The only other way around it is to say that the Pope erred and since the promulgation of the CCC, the Church has been mislead. That would mean Christ’s promise failed. There are those who say that (like the SSPX, Sedevacanteists, etc.), but they have basically removed themselves from the Church, either formally or informally.
 
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