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Sunflake9
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:banghead:
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Akini
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Answersplease, are you a Catholic?. We might be wasting our time discussing about the above thread. If you want to stir up some arguments, forget it.
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why_me
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You brring up a good point. Answersplease posting style leaves the responder with a difficult way to respond since if one keys in the qoute mechanism he or she will find a blank page. Plus, answersplease seems to have all the answers.
And yes, the OP does want to stir the pot by pasting info from websites with his own red and blue lettering commentary. And of course it would be nice to read the whole point behind what was said…instead of a quote and paste routine. Context becomes important.
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why_me
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Also, in all fairness, since the website listed by answers is an antimormon website, it would be interesting if a noncatholic would begin to past and post quotations listed on such antcatholic websites in order to enlist responses without that posters opinons. How long would that fly with the moderators? Not long since catholics would be reporting such posts.
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why_me
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And here is the mormon response to that website and the information that it contains about what answers posted:
en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_Research_Ministry
Here is just one or two comments about the information answers posted from the mormon source I listed:
Commentary
The critic removes a single sentence which describes why the First Vision is important. More significantly, the critic omits the paragraph immediately following this statement, in which President Hinckley clearly and powerfully places Jesus Christ at the center of our belief.
Conclusion
The editors of the wiki want their readers to believe that Latter-day Saints prioritize a belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet over the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our savior and the only name through which we may be saved. In their effort to convince the world that Latter-day Saints place more importance on Joseph Smith than on Jesus Christ, the critics carefully and selectively excise the testimony of Jesus Christ from the statements made by Latter-day prophets. This is a blatantly dishonest attempt to fool people into believing that we do not accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior and redeemer, despite the clear message delivered by the prophets before their statements were adulterated by the critics.
en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_Research_Ministry
Here is just one or two comments about the information answers posted from the mormon source I listed:
Commentary
The critic removes a single sentence which describes why the First Vision is important. More significantly, the critic omits the paragraph immediately following this statement, in which President Hinckley clearly and powerfully places Jesus Christ at the center of our belief.
Conclusion
The editors of the wiki want their readers to believe that Latter-day Saints prioritize a belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet over the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our savior and the only name through which we may be saved. In their effort to convince the world that Latter-day Saints place more importance on Joseph Smith than on Jesus Christ, the critics carefully and selectively excise the testimony of Jesus Christ from the statements made by Latter-day prophets. This is a blatantly dishonest attempt to fool people into believing that we do not accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior and redeemer, despite the clear message delivered by the prophets before their statements were adulterated by the critics.
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Answersplease
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MikeLurie
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It seems the quote button automatically purges the original post of anything worthless.
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Erethorn
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That doesn’t change the fact that belief in Joseph Smith is viewed by you as necessary for salvation. It might not be sufficient cause, but it’s a necessary cause.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessary_and_sufficient_condition
Salvation might come from Christ, God might be great, they might be much much more important than Joseph Smith, but the fact remains that “every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are”.
The Catholic Church doesn’t go that far, not even when it comes to the Pope, not even when it comes to our Blessed Mother.
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why_me
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It isn’t viewed as necessary for salvation. No where is that taught in the lds church. But mormons do believe that through Joseph Smith, the true church was restored and along with it the priesthood which gives him some importance in the lds church. And of course to be a mormon one must have a testimony that JS was a true prophet. Mormons have an understanding that most will be saved and inherit a kingdom of glory.
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ParkerD
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Erethorn,
I think WhyMe has answered well, and want to add a comment also. Sometimes one needs to read a passage using the context of an entire body of understanding. One should do this as they read Isaiah and Revelation in the Bible, for example, and not take every verse literally but understand that there are meanings that can be gleaned that are not literal.
For one to arrive at the point of being “exalted” to the “mansion where God and Christ are” means that one has qualified themselves through having made covenants with Them, and kept those covenants which has brought them to the condition of knowledge and faith whereby Christ has been able to sufficiently change such a person so that they have become a completely new person. They have been brought along through life to a condition of a “mighty change” in their heart, and proven themselves by “enduring in faith” as they have been tested by all sorts of challenges and have grown by overcoming adversity, and have grown in their love of all humankind. Joseph Smith added a depth of understanding to the world that had been lost about the opportunity to gain “exaltation” through Christ.
If someone is going to gain “exaltation”, they are going to be “on the same page” as everyone else who gains “exaltation” meaning they are going to be “one” just like Christ said in His great intercessory prayer. They are not going to be divided. They are not going to have a different “brand” of exaltation. They are going to love others with a deep compassion that swallows up the mortal differences of what century they lived in or what nationality they came from or who was their set of leaders on earth. Christ will have been their Leader, and will continue to be their Leader. Joseph Smith gave access (through revelation from God) to knowledge in these latter days about the covenant making that enables getting to an amenability to being changed by Christ, but having gotten that amenability and made those covenants, then salvation and exaltation are centered in Christ just as it has always been.
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gurneyhalleck1
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So technically we’re talking “extra Joseph Smith non sallus?”
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ParkerD
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Answersplease,
Context is always important for words to mean something in the way the writer or speaker was using the words. One who thinks words “stand by themselves” can misunderstand easily if they don’t bother to figure out the context of the words.
Joseph Smith had keys which means he had authority from God. Those keys are passed on to living men, and so forth. They are also delegable in some kinds of responsibilities such as performing divinely authorized baptisms. To say that Joseph Smith gives “his consent” is to say that he has observed the transfer of keys within the dispensation where he has a primary leadership responsibility, and has observed the proper use of those keys, and will be able to identify if someone or some group has gone off on some tangent and taken “authority unto themselves” and therefore nullified their authority in the eyes of God (which would be the case of break-off religions from the LDS religion).
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