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ADiosgracias
Guest
Can a couple get married with the intention of not having sex? What happen with Deacons?
Wasn’t the case of the blessed Mary and St Joseph?
Wasn’t the case of the blessed Mary and St Joseph?
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ADiosgracias
Guest
I want to add: May not be the case of homosexuals who wanted to live holy but in the company of their partners?
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
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Lujack
Guest
There is such a thing as a Josephite Marriage. I know very little about it, however.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Yes, this would be called a Josephitic or Josephite marriage (for that reason). You can do a search on those terms for more information. That is not the case with deacons, however, most of whom have ordinary marriages just like anyone else.
No, because such a relationship does not have any sacramental place in the order of creation or the economy of salvation. Likewise, a brother and a sister can decide never to marry and to grow old in each other’s company, but a family relationship of such a sort has nothing to do with the sacrament of marriage. In any case, a Josephitic marriage remains oriented toward the primary purpose of marriage – “the procreation and bringing up of children for the worship of God” – because the parties could decide to end their abstinence at any time. Louis and Zélie Martin did exactly that, and the product of their union turned out to be St. Thérèse of Lisieux, along with four other nuns. Two homosexuals could never have a marriage which remained oriented in this way toward the fundamental nature of the sacrament.
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1ke
Guest
A couple could do this under the spiritual direction of a holy priest, but both parties must be willing and able to begin having marital relations if and when the other party requests it.
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1ke
Guest
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Corki
Guest
No, two aspects of a Joshephite marriage make that just as impossible as any other same-sex “marriage”.
- A Joshephite marriage is to be exactly the same as a “regular” marriage with the exception of the marital act. The same could not be said for a homosexual couple.
- At any time, a couple in a Joshepite marriage can give up the Josephite marriage (they may need the permission of their spiritual director) at which time, the marriage simply becomes as any other marriage. This is, of course, impossible for a same sex couple.
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runningdude
Guest
Since a “Josephite” marriage is unconsummated, it could theoretically be dissolved by the Pope, correct?
Also, since it is not consummated, would it also not yet be sacramental?
Also, since it is not consummated, would it also not yet be sacramental?
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Could you please rephrase your sentence? It is fairly unintelligible.
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catholictiger
Guest
the church strongly discourages having the will not to consummate a marriage, not consummating the marriage is grounds for annulment, and I think is the one through the centuries that has always been grounds
Permanent deacons don’t have to live a life of celibacy to my knowledge
Mary and Joesph they lived by Jewish Laws not Catholic Laws.
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Corki
Guest
A marriage can be valid and Sacramental without consumation. It becomes indissolvable after consumation.
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Brooklyn
Guest
Saint Thérèse of Lisieux’s parents, Louis Martin and Marie Zelie Guerin, who were beatified in 2008, first made such a vow when they first married, which they kept for the first 10 months. But then a confessor told them to consider their marriage a vocation and to have children. Fortunately, they listened and produced 5 saintly daughters, including St. Thérèse. My point is that the confessor did not tell them they were sinning by being celibate.
We must also remember that Mary, the mother of Jesus, lived a celibate life with her husband, Joseph.
It is wrong to have sex without being open to life. It is not a sin to be celibate, not even in marriage, when both parties have agreed.
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TimothyH
Guest
A man who becomes a deacon when he is married may continue to have a normal marriage like anyone else including having sex with his wife. A man may not marry however, subsequent to recieving the sacrament of holy orders. This means that permanent deacons are expected to live a life of celibacy if they are unmarried when they become a deacon or if their wife dies.
The only exception is if the deacon is returned to the lay state - laicized - by the Pope. The man is still a member of the order of diaconate by virtue of the sacrament of holy orders because sacraments cannot be undone, but if he is returned to the lay state he will no longer function as a deacon and will be free to marry. Only the Pople may laicize.
Our parish had a deacon who was laicized. The had eight children, some of them young, when his wife died, plus he was diabetic. There was no way he was going to raise eight children on his own. He met a woman and wanted to get married, and so he went to Rome and requested laicization from the Holy Father who grated it. This is not a normal occurance however.
-Tim-
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Well, St. Joseph was already an older man… 
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catholictiger
Guest
sorry if I didn’t make this clear but I do believe exactly what say and know this is the view of the church.
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Brooklyn
Guest
You don’t really think that was the reason Joseph and Mary lived a celibate life, do you? I will admit, that may have made it easier for Joseph and more respectful towards Mary, and maybe that is one of the reasons he was chosen to be her spouse.Well, St. Joseph was already an older man…
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
I knew they had a Josephite marriage, but did they decide on this before or after they exchanged vows? Did they enter their marriage with the intention of never having sex?
But Mary and Joseph were bound by Jewish law, not Cannon Law.
Luna
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Brooklyn
Guest
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Vico
Guest
Yes. But the matrimonial covenant is invalid if they do not intend to grant the gift of proper conjugal relations upon request by their spouse (when moral and reasonable). It is unconditional. A couple that has validly married but not consummated can actually have the valid marriage dissolved through the Apostolic See’s approval.
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