No to Birth Control Because of Infallibility?

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Has anyone heard of this argument before from the article written below?

petemurphy.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/catholic-churchs-position-on-birth-control-2/

Quote:

In his minority report, Archbishop Wojtyla warned: “If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930.” It should likewise have to be admitted that for half a century the Spirit failed to protect the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

I’m sure it’s meant to be anti-Catholic, but did Pope John Paul II say this? Was it taken out of context?

Thanks.
 
jcoldc said:
Has anyone heard of this argument before from the article written below?

petemurphy.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/catholic-churchs-position-on-birth-control-2/

Quote:

In his minority report, Archbishop Wojtyla warned: “If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930.” It should likewise have to be admitted that for half a century the Spirit failed to protect the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

I’m sure it’s meant to be anti-Catholic, but did Pope John Paul II say this? Was it taken out of context?

Thanks.
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I don’t know about the quote, but I have some thoughts on the subject:

It wasn’t until the Anglican Church’s Lambeth Conference in 1930 that any Christian faith tradition approved of contraception. The 1930 Lambeth Conference approved of contraception only in “rare” circumstances, but the barn door was open and the stampede soon followed. Even though most Protestant denominations condemned the decision of the Lambeth Conference at the time, within 20 or 30 years, pretty much all of them had changed their teaching on contraception.

The haunting question remains: Were Protestant denominations teaching error before 1930 when they all taught that artificial birth control is a sin, or are they teaching error now when they teach that it’s okay to contracept?

The Catholic Church has never bowed to pressure to change and stands virtually alone in its unwavering opposition to the unholy trinity of contraception, abortion and euthanasia.
 
jcoldc said:
Has anyone heard of this argument before from the article written below?

petemurphy.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/catholic-churchs-position-on-birth-control-2/

Quote:

In his minority report, Archbishop Wojtyla warned: “If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930.” It should likewise have to be admitted that for half a century the Spirit failed to protect the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

I’m sure it’s meant to be anti-Catholic, but did Pope John Paul II say this? Was it taken out of context?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I don’t see any more context needed. The good Archbishop was commenting on Church teaching.
 
Spirithound said:
I don’t see any more context needed. The good Archbishop was commenting on Church teaching.
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I see it the same way. The Archbishop was stating that if the church changed its opinion on birth control that it would be tacit admission that the infallibility of the church is not true and that God guided the protestants rather than the church.

That is not the case, however. The church declared and still declares that unnatural birth control is intrinsically disordered.
 
promethius said:
I see it the same way. The Archbishop was stating that if the church changed its opinion on birth control that it would be tacit admission that the infallibility of the church is not true and that God guided the protestants rather than the church.

That is not the case, however. The church declared and still declares that unnatural birth control is intrinsically disordered.
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Right. The Church is the Truth, and the intrinsic truth cannot just change with a vote or a majority.
 
Randy_Carson said:
The Catholic Church has never bowed to pressure to change and stands virtually alone in its unwavering opposition to the unholy trinity of contraception, abortion and euthanasia.
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I think thats one of the signs that we are where we should be. A institution that caves in from secular pressure isn’t from God. The anglican and lutheran Churches are a good example of this collapse under pressure(contraception, abortion, gay marriage, divorce, women priests, even the denial of Christ’s divinity and his salvation,etc)

Sometimes I wonder if Luther and King Henry VIII are turning in their graves

A church that gives in to secular pressure is a bad sign that it isn’t led by the Holy Spirit, but instead by temporal wordly powers.
 
PetersKeys said:
I think thats one of the signs that we are where we should be. A institution that caves in from secular pressure isn’t from God. The anglican and lutheran Churches are a good example of this collapse under pressure(contraception, abortion, gay marriage, divorce, women priests, even the denial of Christ’s divinity and his salvation,etc)

Sometimes I wonder if Luther and King Henry VIII are turning in their graves

A church that gives in to secular pressure is a bad sign that it isn’t led by the Holy Spirit, but instead by temporal wordly powers.
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Someplace Chesterton said that he would rather belong to a Church that was 2000 years behind the times and consistent in its teaching, than to one that was two years behind and scurryig to catch up. 😃
 
PetersKeys said:
I think thats one of the signs that we are where we should be. A institution that caves in from secular pressure isn’t from God. The anglican and lutheran Churches are a good example of this collapse under pressure(contraception, abortion, gay marriage, divorce, women priests, even the denial of Christ’s divinity and his salvation,etc)

Sometimes I wonder if Luther and King Henry VIII are turning in their graves

A church that gives in to secular pressure is a bad sign that it isn’t led by the Holy Spirit, but instead by temporal wordly powers.
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Yes, excellent post. Reminds me of this by Fulton Sheen:
If I were not a Catholic and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be that if Christ is in any one of the churches of the world today, he must still be hated as he was when he was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world.
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Look for the Church that is hated by the world as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times as our Lord was accused of being ignorant and never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior as they sneered at our Lord because he came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil as our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of God as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to God. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible as Pilate rejected Christ because he called himself the Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as our Lord was rejected by men.
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Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions its members love as they love Christ and respect its voice as the very voice of its founder, and the suspicion will grow that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ himself. But only that which is divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is divine (Radio Replies, preface, p. ix, source, slightly edited for readability).
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Michelle Arnold posted it in the apologist forum.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85089
 
jcoldc said:
Has anyone heard of this argument before from the article written below?

petemurphy.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/catholic-churchs-position-on-birth-control-2/

Quote:

In his minority report, Archbishop Wojtyla warned: “If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930.” It should likewise have to be admitted that for half a century the Spirit failed to protect the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

I’m sure it’s meant to be anti-Catholic, but did Pope John Paul II say this? Was it taken out of context?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hooray for the popes!!
eideard.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/pope-reaffirms-church-opposition-to-contraception/
 
jcoldc said:
Has anyone heard of this argument before from the article written below?

petemurphy.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/catholic-churchs-position-on-birth-control-2/

Quote:

In his minority report, Archbishop Wojtyla warned: “If it should be declared that contraception is not evil in itself, then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit had been on the side of the Protestant churches in 1930.” It should likewise have to be admitted that for half a century the Spirit failed to protect the Catholic hierarchy from a very serious error.

I’m sure it’s meant to be anti-Catholic, but did Pope John Paul II say this? Was it taken out of context?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
It makes sense to me - He said IF IF IF IF IF IF. If means “if it is not evil”, then protestants are right. But the context is that JPII DOES firmly believe that it is evil and that the Catholic church is right.
 
PetersKeys said:
I think thats one of the signs that we are where we should be. A institution that caves in from secular pressure isn’t from God. The anglican and lutheran Churches are a good example of this collapse under pressure(contraception, abortion, gay marriage, divorce, women priests, even the denial of Christ’s divinity and his salvation,etc)

Sometimes I wonder if Luther and King Henry VIII are turning in their graves

A church that gives in to secular pressure is a bad sign that it isn’t led by the Holy Spirit, but instead by temporal wordly powers.
Click to expand...
Time out…are you saying that Lutherans condone abortion, gay marriage and women priests?
 
Um, not to cast dispersions, but Wikipedia and About.com are not exactly reliable sources. I think it’s safe to say that the statement that Lutherans condone such things is questionable.
 
First, is it just my computer or did the background on this forum just change from a yellowish color to a sand color???

Anyway, thanks for all the comments. I always learn somthing new from other posters. My first impression in reading this article was that the author was either trying to twist or take out of context, JPII’s words.

It’s frustrating. I was trying to find something to support an argument I was making. And (as usually happens) when I google the subject it comes up with so much stuff AGAINST the Catholic church. If you just type in “Catholic”, what comes up?? **** from CARM not honest Catholic sites. So infuriating, but I loved the reference from Bishop Sheen. I 've often felt that way being attacked as a Catholic, but he crystalized those thoughts better than I ever could have. Thanks.
 
As I recall a pastor, I think his name is Larry Christianson, in Long Beach CA wrote a book strongly attacking artificial birth control several years ago. I think he is a Lutheran.
 
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