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Vico
Guest
Mankind has no active power by which grace can be attained, so every work or grace is miraculous. Before justification (baptism) that grace is called actual grace.
Catechism
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Catechism
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Mi_Rose
Guest
Not to sound flippant here but either your marriage was a trial for him or your divorce was. He was either unhappy before or after the divorce. His actions don’t have to match his feelings. I hope that makes sense.
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Marette
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I would be a little jealous! Seriously, though, God is good and fair to all, and we are only seeing what goes on with a person in their earthly life up to this point. We do not know what he may face in the afterlife. Not saying he is going to sit on the hottest hob in Purgatory, just that we do not see the full story here on earth. Let God work it out. Please don’t pray for God to give him trials, just that the fellow may be showered with graces and be found worthy of the Beatific Vision.
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Nap66
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For me I consider trials in life to be bad things that come out of the blue over which you have no control. He had control to get married and divorced. Just because the marriage didn’t make him happy, I don’t consider that a trial. Now if someone in his family had a stroke or got ALS and he had to take care of them for a long time, that is a trial. He didn’t ask for it and it came out of the blue. Of course the control is that he can ignore the family member and not help at all and continue on with his life the same as before (and I think he would). But the original circumstance would still be out of the blue and happened with no choice by him.
The thing is, and I’m generalizing to all trial-less people (and there are many people out there like that), when nothing bad out of your control ever happens to you, you begin to feel like you control everything and you are the master of your domain here on earth. In return, you begin to think that when bad things happen to other people it must have been those people’s faults. As someone said upstream:
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Nap66
Guest
How can someone experience a personal conversion if they do not experience a trial? Even Saul/Paul got knocked off his horse otherwise he would have merrily gone on his way killing Christians to his dying day. Using one’s lack of trials in life to help others seems like a great goal, but how many people actually do this?
Not many I would presume. When you have a good life, the last thing you want to do is listen to someone’s bad life and/or help take on their troubles. IMHO people who are selfless only became that way from going through trials. So maybe God will send him a trial someday, but if it doesn’t actually involve his own body, he would just pawn the trial off onto someone else to deal with it. That’s the way he rolls.
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Spyridon
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Give it time.
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Spyridon
Guest
@Nap66 are you familiar with Psalm 73? In it, the Psalmist laments how the wicked go through life with no trials and only apparent blessing… And then he realizes something.
I urge you to meditate long and hard on these Words of God:
"Truly God is good to the upright,
to those who are pure in heart.
But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled,
my steps had well nigh slipped.
For I was envious of the arrogant,
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
For they have no pangs;
their bodies are sound and sleek.
They are not in trouble as other men are;
they are not stricken like other men.
Therefore pride is their necklace;
violence covers them as a garment.
Their eyes swell out with fatness,
their hearts overflow with follies.
They scoff and speak with malice;
loftily they threaten oppression.
They set their mouths against the heavens,
and their tongue struts through the earth.
Therefore the people turn and praise them;
and find no fault in them.
And they say, “How can God know?
Is there knowledge in the Most High?”
Behold, these are the wicked;
always at ease, they increase in riches.
All in vain have I kept my heart clean
and washed my hands in innocence.
For all the day long I have been stricken,
and chastened every morning.
If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
I would have been untrue to the generation of thy children.
But when I thought how to understand this,
it seemed to me a wearisome task,
until I went into the sanctuary of God;
then I perceived their end.
Truly thou dost set them in slippery places;
thou dost make them fall to ruin.
How they are destroyed in a moment,
swept away utterly by terrors!
They are like a dream when one awakes,
on awaking you despise their phantoms.
When my soul was embittered,
when I was pricked in heart,
I was stupid and ignorant,
I was like a beast toward thee.
Nevertheless I am continually with thee;
thou dost hold my right hand.
Thou dost guide me with thy counsel,
and afterward thou wilt receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but thee?
And there is nothing upon earth that I desire besides thee.
My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart and my portion for ever.
For lo, those who are far from thee shall perish;
thou dost put an end to those who are false to thee.
But for me it is good to be near God;
I have made the Lord God my refuge,
that I may tell of all thy works."
I urge you to meditate long and hard on these Words of God:
"Truly God is good to the upright,
to those who are pure in heart.
But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled,
my steps had well nigh slipped.
For I was envious of the arrogant,
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
For they have no pangs;
their bodies are sound and sleek.
They are not in trouble as other men are;
they are not stricken like other men.
Therefore pride is their necklace;
violence covers them as a garment.
Their eyes swell out with fatness,
their hearts overflow with follies.
They scoff and speak with malice;
loftily they threaten oppression.
They set their mouths against the heavens,
and their tongue struts through the earth.
Therefore the people turn and praise them;
and find no fault in them.
And they say, “How can God know?
Is there knowledge in the Most High?”
Behold, these are the wicked;
always at ease, they increase in riches.
All in vain have I kept my heart clean
and washed my hands in innocence.
For all the day long I have been stricken,
and chastened every morning.
If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
I would have been untrue to the generation of thy children.
But when I thought how to understand this,
it seemed to me a wearisome task,
until I went into the sanctuary of God;
then I perceived their end.
Truly thou dost set them in slippery places;
thou dost make them fall to ruin.
How they are destroyed in a moment,
swept away utterly by terrors!
They are like a dream when one awakes,
on awaking you despise their phantoms.
When my soul was embittered,
when I was pricked in heart,
I was stupid and ignorant,
I was like a beast toward thee.
Nevertheless I am continually with thee;
thou dost hold my right hand.
Thou dost guide me with thy counsel,
and afterward thou wilt receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but thee?
And there is nothing upon earth that I desire besides thee.
My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart and my portion for ever.
For lo, those who are far from thee shall perish;
thou dost put an end to those who are false to thee.
But for me it is good to be near God;
I have made the Lord God my refuge,
that I may tell of all thy works."
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rcwitness
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Maybe you should define what a Spiritual trial is to you…?Zaccheus:
He’s my recent ex-husband. Yes I saw every part of his life for the last 20 years. His life hasn’t changed since he has been my ex for the last few months. Oh, and divorce for him wasn’t a trial, since he wanted the divorce.
All I know is that he is the least empathetic person I know. Does that come from having no trials? I could never understand why he had no feelings for anyone but himself. Probably because he thinks “I don’t have any problems, why are these people always complaining about their lives?”
To glide through a divorce smoothly and unaffected seems like he has a seared conscience!
A trial is a struggle to uphold the faith. I dont think its synonymous with a hardship.
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Nap66
Guest
Thank you for the Psalm. I have read that Psalm many times. I do realize that through trials, I at least, have grown closer to God. I realize that I have God, who will never foresake nor abandon me. Trial-less people (and the wicked in the Psalm), only have other people, who will always foresake and abandon each other.
That’s why my one question is if God wants all people to come and believe in him before we leave this earth, how can it be achieved without trials? No one living a great life from the get-go, will have a need to seek out God (as the Psalm states). So are trial-less people not as blessed as I think, because they have no need for God and put all their trust in this world and their own devices (not acknowledging that God is the one that gave them the trial-less life)? I’m sure there are trial-less or trial-few people who are close to God and do not need trials to get them there. But they are few and far between.
But I do like that Psalm.
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Nap66
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A few posts up I define a trial (for me only) as something bad happening to you out of the blue of which you had no control.
If that is the case, then the ex has absolutely no trials since he has no faith and is an atheist!
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rcwitness
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Consider the rich man who approached Jesus:
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to them “Then who can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” Peter began to say to him, “Lo, we have left everything and followed you.” Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. But many that are first will be last, and the last first.”
And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.
And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to them “Then who can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” Peter began to say to him, “Lo, we have left everything and followed you.” Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. But many that are first will be last, and the last first.”
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rcwitness
Guest
It can be, if it is a struggle to maintain the faith. But more like an affliction, to me.
Just because you fail a trial and take the easy path, doesnt mean their wasnt one. It means faith was abandoned.If that is the case, then the ex has absolutely no trials since he has no faith and is an atheist!
As for the marriage, if the spouse was not Christian, then a civil divorce could validly dissolve the marriage. Still, wouldnt there be a struggle to guide the atheist to believe???
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Benadam
Guest
That song cracked me up. The way the lyrics started and what they led into reminded me of something St. Paul said;Nap66:
I know that must be so frustrating for you.
I’ll pray for you.
Meanwhile, while I do not recommend this approach, I thought the song might give you a laugh.
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petra22
Guest
Just your question probably caused him to start thinking…
What I believe is that we all have problems. All sorts and types and even if you think a person has no problems he/she does. Maybe it’s internal. Maybe it will come later in life… I pray that he finds Jesus.
What I believe is that we all have problems. All sorts and types and even if you think a person has no problems he/she does. Maybe it’s internal. Maybe it will come later in life… I pray that he finds Jesus.
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MonteRCMS
Guest
I used to think that, as well.
Then I met people who were going thru the cancer death of a child or employment where the absolute impossible was demanded.
Then I met people who were going thru the cancer death of a child or employment where the absolute impossible was demanded.
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Benadam
Guest
Nap, no one can escape their own personal cosmic tragedy. They can spend a life in denial that it will ever happen but, that tragedy coming like a thief in the night might be a Grace for them… I guess only God knows.If that is the case, then the ex has absolutely no trials since he has no faith and is an atheist!
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Spyridon
Guest
My main reason for posting that Psalm was to console you with the thought “you are not the first or only person suffering in this way” - that particular Psalm was written between 2,500 and 3,000 years ago.
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oldgraymare2
Guest
This is hilarious! 
Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for posting this.
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Lost
Guest
You are blessed too. So don’t worry too much.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I had a children’s book when I was little where a little boy was dealing with his “enemy”, another little boy in his class, by being extra nice to him, based on his dad or a priest or minister saying to “heap coals of fire on his head”. As a child of about 8, I got the gist of responding to an enemy with kindness, but could not figure out how putting fiery coals on someone’s head represented being kind.
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