"No War Is Ever Holy"

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Matt25

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Here is the “Appeal for Peace,” launched today by religious leaders gathered in Lyon, at the conclusion of the three-day meeting “Men and Religions.” The theme of the meeting was “The Courage to Forge a Spiritual Humanism of Peace.” It was organized by the Rome-based Community of Sant’Egidio and the Archdiocese of Lyon and attended by leading figures of some of the world’s major religions. …

We pay homage to the memory of John Paul II, a man of dialogue and a tenacious witness of the sanctity of peace. We believe that without peace this world becomes inhuman. We have heard the cry of many, suffering from war and terrorism. We have questioned and deepened our commitment to our respective religious traditions and we have found in them a message of peace. We prayed for peace in the world.

It is in the name of peace that we address the believers of our traditions, men and women of good will, and those who still believe that violence makes the world a better place. To them we say: It is time to stop the use of violence! Human life is sacred. Violence humiliates human beings and diminishes the cause of those who make use of it. The world is tired of living in fear. Religions do not want violence, war or terrorism. We proclaim this with conviction! …Peace is the name of God. God never wants the elimination of the other. God is moved with compassion for the victims of violence, terror and war. Those who legitimate their interests or justify violence in the name of God debase religion. No war is ever holy. Humanity is not improved by violence or terror
 
I don’t like using the augumentum ad nauseam tactic so I’ll just talk about quote in the title.
he who said this is a heretic.
  1. we got just war doctrine
  2. how about US and UK in WWII? An imperialism war for colonies to you matt25?
 
btw your profile says your religion is catholic, did you just forget to put the “c” in upper case? just curious.
 
I’m sure he did, because we all know if someone were to make such a grave sin intentionally like not capitalizing a “c”, they would sure find themselves in hell.

:rolleyes:
 
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Matt25:
Peace is the name of God. God never wants the elimination of the other. God is moved with compassion for the victims of violence, terror and war.
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Read Deuteronomy 13 and tell me what God wanted there.
If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, [a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things ** shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.**
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abcdefg:
I don’t like using the augumentum ad nauseam tactic so I’ll just talk about quote in the title.
he who said this is a heretic.
  1. we got just war doctrine
  2. how about US and UK in WWII? An imperialism war for colonies to you matt25?
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Does the Just War doctrine describe any war as “holy”?

What about the USSR in WWII, a Holy War for freedom?
 
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abcdefg:
btw your profile says your religion is catholic, did you just forget to put the “c” in upper case? just curious.
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No I did not.
 
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Matt25:
Does the Just War doctrine describe any war as “holy”?

What about the USSR in WWII, a Holy War for freedom?
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Just so you know, the USSR invaded half of Poland before being invaded by Germany. There original intentions were not self-defense or the stopping of the nazi war machine from slaughtering the innocent.
 
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bogeyjlg:
Just so you know, the USSR invaded half of Poland before being invaded by Germany. There original intentions were not self-defense or the stopping of the nazi war machine from slaughtering the innocent.
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Actually that was pretty much my point. Thankyou.
 
This grows tiresome. The Bible itself says that there is a time for war. Not to mention, I wonder why “proponents of peace” always oppose peaceful countries.

Particularly misleading is the statement: “Humanity is not improved by violence or terror.” Terror is what our enemies are all about. Violence can be both immoral (i.e. terrorism, crime) and moral (police, liberation) depending on how its used.

This reminds me of the widely held slogan “War is not the answer.” This slogan, like the title of this thread, is complete and utter nonsense. After all, the greatest evils of humanity–slavery, the holocaust, countless genocides, countless tyrannies, etc–were quite effectively “answered” by war.

Tyrants of the world would rejoice if the world adopted a “no war” philosopy, knowing they can do whatever evil they chose and the world would be silent.

Ecclesiastes says there is a “time for war.” Psalms says “to love God is to hate evil.” Moral people, afraid of being poisoned by hate, even the productive hatred of evil, have become indifferent to evil to the great detriment of the world.
 
What about the wars against poverty, against injustice, against our carnal vices, etc?
 
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Matt25:
Does the Just War doctrine describe any war as “holy”?
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I will concede that no war is holy, but I think many get holy and moral confused. Just because something is not holy does not make it immoral.
 
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Matt25:
As recently as 2003 Pope John Paul II said “NO TO WAR”! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity"
see vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2003/january/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20030113_diplomatic-corps_en.html so if war is “always a defeat for humanity” in what sense is it Holy?
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War is not always a defeat for humanity–this too is nonsense. Silence in the face of the holocaust by good people would have been a defeat for humanity.
 
Very true, Jay. Holy means “sacred”. A sacred thing is always good, but not every good is sacred.
 
Matt25, I have a question, and I’m not being a smarty pants, its a sincere and honest question. Which do you fear more, American power or terrorism?
 
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Matt25:
Does the Just War doctrine describe any war as “holy”?

What about the USSR in WWII, a Holy War for freedom?
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Interesting, that you forget the USSR, with its ally, Nazi Germany, started WWII by invading Poland.
 
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Jay74:
War is not always a defeat for humanity–this too is nonsense. Silence in the face of the holocaust by good people would have been a defeat for humanity.
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War is always a defeat for humanity since war is always a product of sin and never one of virtue. It may be the case that the sin is all on one side and virtue all on the other. Nonetheless grave murderous sins are never absent from wars either in their genesis or in their execution.

It is also my belief that if a single innocent life is lost in the course of a war then that lost life represents a defeat for all humanity.
 
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