No will to persevere

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Intellectually I believe that the Holy Catholic Church is what Jesus founded and therefore want in due process to be a part of it, but my will is decidely against the Church. I don’t have the will to live a daily Catholic life, and I respond to a possible case of scrupulosity by trying to “kill” my conscience and live in mental peace. I’m not a “joiner”, and as I get closer to officially being Catholic I rebel against the obligations. I skipped Mass deliberatelty this past Sunday for instance. The priest was supposed to test my Catechism knowledge afterwards. Many times I’m apathetic toward God’s opinion(defense against overactive conscience) or do something precisely because I shouldn’t. It’s a teenage “no one tells me what to do” attitude(of course no one is really forcing me) and I’m 26. I wonder if God will/should really be merciful toward me regarding this attitude, and the questionings really an incentive killer for amendment. Mostly I’m just stuck in neutral without traction.

In addition I seem to delude myself. I have a seeming unconscious need to explain my successes and failures in life through religion. I explain things as God’s will or not God’s will when in fact its more than likely my own will or my cooresponding fear of doing something. Why is this? Besides that over the years I have fallen for ‘justification by faith alone’, Calvinism, almost for Orthodoxy, and there’s no proof I’m not deluded right now in my current Catholic conviction. I’ve wandered spiritually, been deceived, and lost all enthusiasm and assurance for anything. I search, but I wish there was a way to KNOW that one was on the right path. Then again, maybe knowing the exact path that I’m currently on and the dangers arrayed in opposition would freak me out:(

Tell me CAF, what’s the diagnosis and the cure?
 
josephback said:
Tell me CAF, what’s the diagnosis and the cure?
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Rejection of self love. You simply love yourself more than you love God. If you loved God more than yourself, you would do his will, not yours.

The above may sound harsh, and it probably is, but it is true. I was there too. One day (September 5, 2008) I realized who I was in relationship to who God was and I started loving God more than I loved myself.

That is when I started doing God’s will instead of my own, things like going to confession, going to Mass, reading the Bible every day and praying.

-Tim-
 
You, my friend, are at war. :knight2:

Here’s a good link to read (or listen to) to remind you:
peterkreeft.com/audio/01_culture-war/culture-war_transcription.htm

I dealt with scruples for a long time myself and found that St. Therese helped a great deal–specifically the book I Believe in Love:amazon.com/Believe-Love-Personal-Retreat-Teaching/dp/1928832288

St. Francis de Sales wrote that sometimes when we sweep too hard we churn up more dust, and St. Therese is the antidote to this.

She learned how to accept herself as a sinner and to offer up her littleness as if to say, “What do you expect, I am still a child?” She approached the spiritual life as a toddler who can’t climb the first stair but keeps getting back up and trying without getting mad at themselves for only being a toddler.

You’re in this for the long haul—pace yourself and expect it take a while.👍
 
Rejection of self love. You simply love yourself more than you love God. If you loved God more than yourself, you would do his will, not yours.
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In theory I agree 100% with this…but it is something that I struggle with. Is separating your will from God’s will truly that cut an dry for some people? Do some people always know without a doubt what is God’s will in a situation vs what their will is?

I am being very serious here. I don’t mean should I go to church, confession, adoration, ect… Not the obvious things…I know wrong from right… I struggle the most with what some people see as little things. But I have found that little things add up and make big differences

Thoughts??

Terry
 
josephback said:
Intellectually I believe that the Holy Catholic Church is what Jesus founded and therefore want in due process to be a part of it, but my will is decidely against the Church. I don’t have the will to live a daily Catholic life, and I respond to a possible case of scrupulosity by trying to “kill” my conscience and live in mental peace. I’m not a “joiner”, and as I get closer to officially being Catholic I rebel against the obligations. I skipped Mass deliberatelty this past Sunday for instance. The priest was supposed to test my Catechism knowledge afterwards. Many times I’m apathetic toward God’s opinion(defense against overactive conscience) or do something precisely because I shouldn’t. It’s a teenage “no one tells me what to do” attitude(of course no one is really forcing me) and I’m 26. I wonder if God will/should really be merciful toward me regarding this attitude, and the questionings really an incentive killer for amendment. Mostly I’m just stuck in neutral without traction.

In addition I seem to delude myself. I have a seeming unconscious need to explain my successes and failures in life through religion. I explain things as God’s will or not God’s will when in fact its more than likely my own will or my cooresponding fear of doing something. Why is this? Besides that over the years I have fallen for ‘justification by faith alone’, Calvinism, almost for Orthodoxy, and there’s no proof I’m not deluded right now in my current Catholic conviction. I’ve wandered spiritually, been deceived, and lost all enthusiasm and assurance for anything. I search, but I wish there was a way to KNOW that one was on the right path. Then again, maybe knowing the exact path that I’m currently on and the dangers arrayed in opposition would freak me out:(

Tell me CAF, what’s the diagnosis and the cure?
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i would simply recommend, getting a good spiritual director (FSSP priest would be best in my opinion - fssp.org/en/coordonnees.htm )
and also, try reading the writings and lives of the saints, or anything from here - www.tanbooks.com
i would strongly recommend, simply because there are so many untrustworthy books out there, that you try and only read books that are either from this site, or that have the church approval markings in them from before the 1960s…and i don’t mean to say that there are no other good books besides those, i know there are many, but what i think would help you is, just to have some good catholic books you know you can trust for sure, and i think that is very important for you, because you sound rather misled and confused,
and so i would especially recommend books by Saint Alphonsus, Saint Francis de Sales, Saint John Vianney, and any other doctor of the church.

also, here are a few good sites for audio sermons, in case you’re not to keen on reading -
audiosancto.org/
keepthefaith.org/
fultonsheen.com/Fulton-Sheen-MP3.cfm
youtube.com/user/CatholicClips#g/p

but about your feelings of rebellion, for that i would just say that, God is not forcing or demanding anything from you, He only lays down these laws for your good, because by them you will learn to love Him and everyone, including yourself, and you will have true peace and joy, and by perservering to the end, you will attain everylasting happiness with God in heaven, which is not something God owes to you, but only what He gives to you purely out of love,
and to help you understand Gods love for you, think of this, God owes us nothing, and we really can’t give Him anything, since He is God after all, we cannot add to Him or subtract from Him, He is purely independent, and so…what does He have to gain from us? well…the truth of it is, all He wants is our happiness, He just wants us to be in heaven with Him, because there is no other place we will be happy, we were made for God and we will only feel out of place until we go to Him,
and the point is…God only gives to us, He pores out His love on us and just gives freely, He doesn’t have to, and we certainly don’t deserve it by any means, but He has gone to such great lengths to show and give His love, even so far as to give His own life, to pay the ultimate price, not just giving a little or even alot, but giving ALL, every last drop of blood, which no normal human being could do, but God being both man and divine, gave every last drop of blood from His precious body for us, even though just a few drops of blood would have redeemed us!..but He wanted to show us, that nothing is wanting for those who seek Him, He won’t just give us what we need, He will give that and more!..

if you desire peace and joy, even amidst your sufferings, then persevere, the devil will try to drag you back to the miserable state you were once in, but just pray to God each time you feel pulled back, and then just ignore those thoughts and emotions that discourage you, and continue practicing your faith despite them, don’t let those things control your actions, and after awhile, although you may not notice at first, but little by little, you will just change, and soon enough reach a point where you can look back, and see all that God had done in you…but you need to be patient, and pray every day, even if it’s just one Hail Mary, just do what you can, that’s all God asks, put yourself in His hands, and He will take care of you,
and keep in mind, that even if you have these thoughts and ideas and feelings, that doesn’t mean you have to make any decisions because of them.

so, check out those sites i gave you, and just try to stick with trustful Catholic sources for now, just to be safe…and if you can get a spiritual director, i’m sure that would help you out alot, even if it’s just by phone or e-mail.

ok, so that’s all, but if you have any other questions feel free to ask,
take care.
 
I have gone through the same thing when I first started getting serious about the Faith. It’s your old will trying to fight back against your new will. As a previous poster has said - you are at war. As dramatic as it sounds, it’s a war with yourself. I suggest reading adn meditating on the Scriptures.

In regards to delusions: I swear that must be a “new to the faith” thing, because I have done that when I got more serious with the Faith. I believe it’s because we still have the “God is King and Sovereign of History Only” mindset rather then the “God is my Father” mindset. In my view (if anyone can quote a saint or a bible verse that thinks otherwise, kindly do so) is that this is mostly an (name removed by moderator)ersonal relationship with God. In time, you will have a “personal relationship” with Him.

And always remember: God is the "still small voice that says ‘this is the way’ " He does not force you into anything - He gently tugs and pulls, if you are willing.
 
TimothyH said:
Rejection of self love. You simply love yourself more than you love God. If you loved God more than yourself, you would do his will, not yours.
Click to expand...
Ya know, I once came up with the diagnosis of malignant self-love, but my psychiatrist at the time just got amused and said that I suffered from depression and OCD:shrug: There’s probably some truth to the self-love charge.

The above may sound harsh, and it probably is, but it is true. I was there too. One day (September 5, 2008) **I realized who I was in relationship to who God was **

meaning small in comparison?

and I started loving God more than I loved myself.

That is when I started doing God’s will instead of my own, things like going to confession, going to Mass, reading the Bible every day and praying.

-Tim-

If the above is the sum of God’s will, then I read the Bible and go to Mass most of the time. I went to Confession once, then learned that you’re not supposed to do that until you join the Church:eek:(because it would duplicate the effect of what baptism does I guess) It just seems like there’s something missing though…
 
EmeraldWings said:
if you desire peace and joy, even amidst your sufferings, then persevere, the devil will try to drag you back to the miserable state you were once in, but just pray to God each time you feel pulled back, and then just ignore those thoughts and emotions that discourage you, and continue practicing your faith despite them, don’t let those things control your actions, and after awhile, although you may not notice at first, but little by little, you will just change, and soon enough reach a point where you can look back, and see all that God had done in you…but you need to be patient, and pray every day, even if it’s just one Hail Mary, just do what you can, that’s all God asks, put yourself in His hands, and He will take care of you,
and keep in mind, that even if you have these thoughts and ideas and feelings, that doesn’t mean you have to make any decisions because of them.

so, check out those sites i gave you, and just try to stick with trustful Catholic sources for now, just to be safe…and if you can get a spiritual director, i’m sure that would help you out alot, even if it’s just by phone or e-mail.

ok, so that’s all, but if you have any other questions feel free to ask,
take care.
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Ok. What’s a spiritual director? Thanks for the links!
 
nfreak141 said:
In regards to delusions: I swear that must be a “new to the faith” thing, because I have done that when I got more serious with the Faith. I believe it’s because we still have the “God is King and Sovereign of History Only” mindset rather then the “God is my Father” mindset. In my view (if anyone can quote a saint or a bible verse that thinks otherwise, kindly do so) is that this is mostly an (name removed by moderator)ersonal relationship with God. In time, you will have a “personal relationship” with Him.

And always remember: God is the "still small voice that says ‘this is the way’ " He does not force you into anything - He gently tugs and pulls, if you are willing.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by “personal relationship”? Not like the Evangelical idea???

The last part is interesting. Huh.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

Pray the divine mercy chaplet 17 times a day, or even just 1 time.

It will change your life.

If you can you can use regular rosary, but if not, just use your fingers.

Jesus said that even the most hardened sinner, if he said this chaplet just one time, will obtain a peaceful and happy death.

Try it:thumbsup: it only takes 5 minutes:eek:

And no, don’t believe in your psychiatrist… I went through what you went through, even worse, and I am perfectly sane. Jesus can heal you. Psychiatrists only look for money.

I once wanted to become an atheist. And tried to “diminish” my conscience too. But the merciful Jesus called me back.

If your conscience bugs you, it says Jesus, heaven and hell is real.

Peace and Joy can only be obtained if we live according to God’s Will. We are created for God, to love and to be loved by him. And restless is our heart until we find him (that’s what st. Augustine said, not exactly, but more less)

And that’s what I experienced. When I tried to diminish my conscience, there is no peace and joy, but more torment, but when I comply to my conscience, live according to God’s commandments, I experience peace and joy in abundant.

If you want to learn more about what God’s commandment is, it is love. To love God with all our heart, soul, and mind, and to love one another as Jesus has loved us.

This might be a help for you
startcatholicism.blogspot.com/

Catholicism by george brantl is an excellent book and it is available online and for free.

Try to read the diary of St Faustina Kowalska - Divine Mercy in my Soul
saintsworks.net/books/St.%20Faustina%20Kowalska%20-%20Diary.pdf

It is available online and for free

St. Faustina’s Vision of hell
divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm

Don’t lose trust and hope.

Jesus loves you
 
josephback said:
What do you mean by “personal relationship”? Not like the Evangelical idea???

The last part is interesting. Huh.
Click to expand...
When I talk about a personal relationship, I mean it’s easier to approach God.

You know the image of a might old guy on a golden throne that has a deep bellowing voice when he talks to His people? That’s the “(name removed by moderator)ersonal relationship” I expressed - the “God is King above anything else” mindset. The “I pray due to obediance” mindset It really is a bad mindset. It FELT dry.

The “personal relationship” I talk about is when, instead of a King, we see a Father. Instead of a booming voice, it’s a loving voice that touches your Heart. Instead of praying due to obediance, it’s due to love.

That’s when you will really start to love God and Jesus.
 
josephback said:
Ok. What’s a spiritual director? Thanks for the links!
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A spiritual director is someone who assists you in understanding yourself and helps you, by the grace of God, to grow in and practice Christian virtue, they basically counsel and direct you in spiritual and religious matters, in helping you to overcome your weaknesses, and grow in perfection,
i personally recommend a priest from the FSSP, because they are just educated and trained so well in counsel and religious instruction, and not to mention they are very gentle and welcoming, atleast all the FSSP priests i’ve met have been.
and it’s also good and important to stick with one spiritual director if you can, and they will answer all your questions and help you with anything you struggle with or are confused about or whatever else,

it might make you feel nervous at first or uneasy, but it’s really a great help to have someone to help you with all your spiritual troubles and questions and everything, it just takes a load off your mind and it’s a great comfort knowing you have someone to go to for answers and advice.

the devil will try to fool you into thinking that the life of a Catholic is to hard and tiresome, or whatever else to turn you off from it, but once you reach a certain point in your spiritual life and your relationship with God, it just gets easier, not because your sufferings go away, but because Jesus carries you along the way and supports you,
we all suffer in this life, no one can escape that, but we don’t have to suffer so much, if we accept our sufferings out of love for God, then they become light and sweet, not for what they are, but for why we endure them, for the love of God, to show Him we love Him and want to share in His passion, to save souls and make reparation for sin.

well…i really don’t want to get ahead of myself here, so i’ll end it there,
alright, glad you liked the links, take care.
 
YOU WROTE: “…my will is decidedly against the Church. I don’t have the will to live a daily Catholic life, and I respond to a possible case of scrupulosity by trying to “kill” my conscience and live in mental peace. I’m not a “joiner”, and as I get closer to officially being Catholic I rebel against the obligations.”

Scrupulosity (unnecessary fear about one’s salvation) can often be caused by an incomplete or inaccurate understanding of official Church teaching. People often become overly worried about their salvation when they have been led to believe that it is just TOO DIFFICULT to be saved. Sometimes just TALKING to someone with harsh views about Church doctrine is enough to cause a person to develop needless fears about going to Hell. It is right to bring such bad reasoning out into the open. It must be confronted for what it is.

You mentioned the “obligations” of the Church. It might be helpful if you explained JUST EXACTLY what you believe these obligations to be. This might be very different from what the actual Church obligations really are.

I say this because the Roman Catholic Church is astonishingly gentle on its followers. It is very easy to be Catholic. Plenty of people will likely tell you otherwise, but those people are flatly wrong. What people say and what the Church actually teaches are often two entirely different things. It never fails to impress me how many hurtful lies about Catholic belief still circulate within the Catholic world. It is good to remember: if a given belief sounds too strict to be true, then it probably is.

There is a website called “Scrupulous Anonymous,” run by the Redemptorist Order - specifically to help Catholics suffering from needless fears about their salvation. The information there is accurate and precise. It has helped thousands of people gain a better understanding of Church teaching. And it may be very useful in calming various fears.

It can be reached here: mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm

And please, describe (if you feel up to it) the precise things that are bothering you here. I suspect that someone has hurt you (at some point) by telling you cruel falsehoods about Catholic belief. And believing these falsehoods is simply wearing you down. This often happens to new converts, and to people returning to the Faith after many years. It is nothing new. And it is absolutely disgusting.

Please, please, write in.

And the best thing to do is to expose such lies as soon as possible.
 
Try this. A week or so…maybe 9 days…of 10-15 minutes of prayer in front of the tabernacle or better at a Church that has the Blessed Sacrament exposed for Adoration.

And pray what you told us…tell God that you have no will to persevere. Tell Him, like a child of God. Tell Him that you want some of His will…that yours is all gone at the moment.

Ask Him to lend you will, lend you desire, lend you more love. “Give me, my Father, more love, more will, more hope”.

And then ask Him to give you some small act of charity or love to do each day after you leave the Church. Some favor you can do for someone else, perhaps quietly without their knowledge or awareness. A hidden act perhaps, between you and Our Lord. Do not go to sleep that day without that little act of a love…a held door, picking up a single piece of someone else’s trash in a parking lot or sidewalk, a smile to someone, maybe a ‘hello’ with a slight bit more enthusiasm, an short email to someone you haven’t talked to recently, a call to one of your siblings, an ounce more generosity or spirit of sacrifice in how you wake up in the morning.

And when you do this act…talk to God ever so briefly…thank Him for giving you this opportunity…and ask Him for more will in that instant. Not as a bargain…but out of love. “Help me to love you and others more”

Try this idea and approach. More conversation, like a child, with your Father…and more little, perhaps hidden, acts of love for others.

God Bless.

I am helping someone move today…and I will offer my work quietly for you, to God.

Pray like a child to God, please.

The cure is always more love - He is the doctor. And prayer.
 
josephback said:
Intellectually I believe that the Holy Catholic Church is what Jesus founded and therefore want in due process to be a part of it, but my will is decidely against the Church. I don’t have the will to live a daily Catholic life, and I respond to a possible case of scrupulosity by trying to “kill” my conscience and live in mental peace. I’m not a “joiner”, and as I get closer to officially being Catholic I rebel against the obligations. I skipped Mass deliberatelty this past Sunday for instance. The priest was supposed to test my Catechism knowledge afterwards. Many times I’m apathetic toward God’s opinion(defense against overactive conscience) or do something precisely because I shouldn’t. It’s a teenage “no one tells me what to do” attitude(of course no one is really forcing me) and I’m 26. I wonder if God will/should really be merciful toward me regarding this attitude, and the questionings really an incentive killer for amendment. Mostly I’m just stuck in neutral without traction.

In addition I seem to delude myself. I have a seeming unconscious need to explain my successes and failures in life through religion. I explain things as God’s will or not God’s will when in fact its more than likely my own will or my cooresponding fear of doing something. Why is this? Besides that over the years I have fallen for ‘justification by faith alone’, Calvinism, almost for Orthodoxy, and there’s no proof I’m not deluded right now in my current Catholic conviction. I’ve wandered spiritually, been deceived, and lost all enthusiasm and assurance for anything. I search, but I wish there was a way to KNOW that one was on the right path. Then again, maybe knowing the exact path that I’m currently on and the dangers arrayed in opposition would freak me out:(

Tell me CAF, what’s the diagnosis and the cure?
Click to expand...
Please do not let yourself willfully doubt the faith. Go to confession, and don’t miss Mass anymore. Please don’t give into these temptations for the sake of your soul.
 
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