Noah and the Ark - Fact or Fiction?

[Orogeny]

Or is it?

Yes it is.

You say that there is not evidence supporting a global flood, but there is evidence for **major **local floods, and by major I mean major.
Here in the Pacific northwest, at the end of the ice age, an ice dam formed and created lake Missoula, which was the largest body of fresh water ever. Several times this ice dam broke and flooded from Montana through eastern Washington into Oregon.
It is what created the Columbia gorge, one of the names the floods go by is the Missoula flood. They say it would have been a wall of water 1,000 feet deep, and when it all settled in the Willamette Valley here in Oregon, it filled the valley to about 600 feet. This happened several times. Scientists say this happened around 15,000 years ago, which would have been around the time that the native Americans were first arriving into America, it is possible that they could have passed the stories back to the Asia Continent.
I have also heard the same thing happened around the Black sea, but I have not been able to find much information on that flood though.

So though this wasn’t a global flood, it does show that very massive floods have occurred on earth, and it is my opinion that it is these floods are the ones that the bible is talking about, but again that is just my uninformed opinion.

I never said that there has never been massive floods. I acknowledge their existence. None, however, could possibly explain a boat on Ararat and none have been so large as to cover mountains as massive as Ararat, especially in historic times.

In fact, your point supports my assertion that there is no evidence of a world-wide flood. If a flood as localized as the Missoula flood was, relative to a global flood of course, leaves large amounts of flood deposits and carves out the landscape as it did, can you imagine the evidence a global flood would leave?

Peace

Tim

 

[runandsew]

Yes it is.I never said that there has never been massive floods. I acknowledge their existence. None, however, could possibly explain a boat on Ararat and none have been so large as to cover mountains as massive as Ararat, especially in historic times.

In fact, your point supports my assertion that there is no evidence of a world-wide flood. If a flood as localized as the Missoula flood was, relative to a global flood of course, leaves large amounts of flood deposits and carves out the landscape as it did, can you imagine the evidence a global flood would leave?

Peace

Tim

I also don’t believe that there was one global flood, but I am not so sure that the story is just symbolic, it could be, but it could be that something happened to Noah in one of these localized massive ice age floods, where he and his family were the only ones saved in their area.

I have listened to the arguments that the Grand Canyon in Arizona is proof of a global flood, because of the layering would be all the different sediments settling down after the flood, similar to what we see after the Mount St. Helen’s eruption, but it find that hard to believe since some of the layers which are between other layers were not sedimentary, but are ancient sand dunes with little footprints walking in them which have been found.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Now, you make your case.

I’ll use a quote from the first Pope:

“because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.” (1 Peter 3:20)
Sounds to me like Peter, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, believed it really happened. If he believes it, so do I.

 

[buffalo]

The Search for Noah’s Ark
By ArcImaging
Research Collaboration with Ataturk University

 

[Deacon_Joseph]

I also saw documentaries about the fact that the CIA had pictures of Noah’s Ark, along with the fact that fossils showing that around 5000 years ago their was a large flood in the middle east and near east areas. Marko Polo stated in his journal that enroute to China he saw the Ark clearly visible on a mountain top in what is now modern Turkey.

 

[colliric]

I also saw documentaries about the fact that the CIA had pictures of Noah’s Ark, along with the fact that fossils showing that around 5000 years ago their was a large flood in the middle east and near east areas. Marko Polo stated in his journal that enroute to China he saw the Ark clearly visible on a mountain top in what is now modern Turkey.

The CIA have even more photos of the same weird “rock formation” or “Ararat Anomoly” that was also photographed by that privatly owned satellitte in 2003 and only came to the general public’s attention in '95 and then again last year(when the satellite photo was released)… and which lookes like a 6:1 ratio boat as was described to a tee in the book of Genesis. The fact that this “formations” measurements nearly match the exact measurements given in Genesis is probally what drew the extreme attention of the CIA once they looked at it and thought “that’s weird”.

The funny thing is unlike other “theories” we know they’ve got photos because they actually said so when they released 6 of them in 1995 and have not released any from their 1972 trip…

I find it quite odd that most sites with this new 2003 photo do not also have the photo’s that the CIA released in '95 and some don’t even mention that it was the CIA that discovered it instead makeing it out that the photo was of something new that hadn’t been seen before.

 

[thistle]

You think it is a photo of a rock formation… it has not been confirmed to be that scientifically. Experts have analyzed it over and over and there is no major concensus over it and they all agreed it’s a very oddly shaped Rock formation, if it even is one because it’s very very diffrent and is generally thought not to be made of the same substance as the surrounding rock.

Also you seem to have missed the significance of what I said. in 1947 they didn’t have that stunning birds eye sattellite photo and still noticed how oddly boat-like that formation looked simply by having a photo of it’s side taken from a very long distance away by a spy plane accidently having been turned on too early. Then it was kept classified for 48 more years…

There was also more photo’s taken by the CIA in 1972 which they haven’t released yet. They clearly thought it looked very very interesting too…

Also Josephus is the same historian we all tend to rely on for external corroborating evidence when someone asks “did jesus exist”, I also happen to trust him on Noah’s Ark…

Maybe you can lead an expedition and prove us all wrong.
If Josephius knew and said where Noah’s Arc was then why did nobody go to see it 2000 years ago or since then? I would have thought that would be a pretty important find especially for those living at that time!

 

[runandsew]

Looking at the pictures from the link on the first page of this thread, it looks like to me that all it is, is a rock ridge that has been polished from glaciation. If you look at the section just to the lower left and the lower right corner of the picture you have some polished rock areas also. You can even see the grooves that have been carved into the rock. Before it was cut and polished by the glaciers, it probably have the same uneven surface as the rest of the rock.

But I could be wrong, It very well could be the ark? who knows for sure, have they sent people up to it to investigate it up close?

 

[colliric]

Looking at the pictures from the link on the first page of this thread, it looks like to me that all it is, is a rock ridge that has been polished from glaciation. If you look at the section just to the lower left and the lower right corner of the picture you have some polished rock areas also. You can even see the grooves that have been carved into the rock. Before it was cut and polished by the glaciers, it probably have the same uneven surface as the rest of the rock.

But I could be wrong, It very well could be the ark? who knows for sure, have they sent people up to it to investigate it up close?

It’s quite unaccessable by foot today this specific region of the mountain, It will be dangerous sending up an expedition. It was not so in the past, so sadly Sattellite imaging will have to do for now.

Considering this is well and truly the favorite of the possible locations of the ark(due to the historical eyewitness accounts. The second favorite on the mountain itself is Ahora Gourge), I don’t think it will be long before someone goes up there and has a look anyway, no matter how dangerous the climb will be, both politically(there’s politics involved here, it’s very close to the Iran border) and literally.

 

[colliric]

Maybe you can lead an expedition and prove us all wrong.
If Josephius knew and said where Noah’s Arc was then why did nobody go to see it 2000 years ago or since then? I would have thought that would be a pretty important find especially for those living at that time!

Josephus simply said it was still visible on the mountain top nothing more. Secondly people have gone up there had a look and comeback down saying they’d been to, seen and even physically touched the ark. And funny enough most of the modern explorers have come down saying it was somewhere in the vicinity where this Anomoly is located, and they didn’t even KNOW about the Anomoly!

 

[maria_rose]

There is no evidence supporting a global flood. No geology, no archeology. Had the flood been a real event, there would be an enormous amount of evidence that would be impossible to not see. But there is none.

The story of the flood is symbolic.

Peace

Tim

The flood may not have been global, but semi global or just in the then known world. It was a primevil event.There have been studies done in the Mediterranian on a flood possibility. There is evidence in several Mediterranian countries that their shores where once covered by a flood because of fossils found and certain rock formations. I wish I remembered which program I saw this on. It’s so long ago. It may have been ‘Ancient Mysteries’ or "Mysteries of the Bible’
I’m sad you’re such a doubting Thomas. God open your heart and may he love you!

Thanks all of you for your links and stuff. I’m deeply grateful.

 

[desert_cath]

It’s quite unaccessable by foot today this specific region of the mountain, It will be dangerous sending up an expedition. It was not so in the past, so sadly Sattellite imaging will have to do for now.

just questions… Mt. Everest, which is the highest of 'em all is more accessible than Mr. Ararat? Could the reason why nobody till now has ever sent an expedition be that they’ve already determined earlier that there was no point because there was no boat? again, just questions…

 

[colliric]

just questions… Mt. Everest, which is the highest of 'em all is more accessible than Mr. Ararat? Could the reason why nobody till now has ever sent an expedition be that they’ve already determined earlier that there was no point because there was no boat? again, just questions…

nope, no and no. It’s actually because there was an avalanche less than a century ago which rendered that area unexplorable by foot.

It can’t be accessed on foot.

 

[kbharbert]

I believe it is a real historical event…

I also think and have faith that it’s probally going to be confirmed during my lifetime…

this was the latest major development in the search on Ararat for the most famous boat ever built:
meta-religion.com/Archaeology/Mesopotamia/mt_ararat_anomaly.htm

Take that with a grain of salt, but I looked at that photo and my jaw dropped.

the CIA discovered this “anomoly” in 1949 by pure accident when they were spying on Russia…
artbulla.com/zion/Noah.html

**i agree that there was an ark.
and a flood.
i know MANY believe the whole story is symbolic.
i guess, for me, i WANT to believe that the stories of the bible are not ALL just stories told to illustrate a point.
i wonder how many believe the crucifixion and Christs rising again was purely a parable?
there is a place along the highway in either maryland or virginia where a church began to build a replica of the ark.
they never got enough money to finish it.
i imagine it would have been a delight to visit if they had.
**

 

[Pixie_Dust]

**i agree that there was an ark.
and a flood.
i know MANY believe the whole story is symbolic.
i guess, for me, i WANT to believe that the stories of the bible are not ALL just stories told to illustrate a point.
**

My belief in it rests primarily on the fact that Peter believed it to be a true historical event. Also, I come from a fundamentalist background so I tend to believe that the whole Bible is Truth and not partially myth.

The argument that there’s not enough water to cover the earth, frankly doesn’t hold water for me because I would never presume to limit the power of God. He’s the one that put the water on the earth to begin with, so if God needed more water, all He had to do was say so.

 

[GratefulSoul]

Dr. Hugh Ross over at Reasons to Believe has presented a very tenable model of a regional flood hypothesis. It’s clear from what we know about earth geology/topography, etc., that there wasn’t a global flood but a regional (or local) one is more likely. God’s purposes in wiping out sinful man while preserving useful and necessary livestock and other life-forms for the regional ecosystem are realized in such a model. Thusly, the integrity of God’s Word remains intact.

 

[garysibio]

To those who do not believe the account of Noah and the flood is historical, on what basis do you then accept the existence of Abraham and the other patriarchs. There is no obvious dividing line in the book of Genesis that indicate that the text up to that point is figurative and after it is historical. Moses does not seem to differentiate. Why should we?

Stories of a universal flood are found all over the world. That in itself is substantial evidence that the flood happened. Also, almost all of the rocks found on the surface are sedimentary. By definition sedimentary rock were laid down by a flood.

 

[garysibio]

My belief in it rests primarily on the fact that Peter believed it to be a true historical event.

Not just Peter but Jesus. In the Olivet Discourse He refers to the days of Noah speaking of them as if they were historical.

 

[FraterInChristo]

Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen. Because of it the ancients were well attested.

By faith we understand that the universe was ordered by the word of God, so that what is visible came into being through the invisible.

By faith Abel offered to God a sacrifice greater than Cain’s. Through this he was attested to be righteous, God bearing witness to his gifts, and through this, though dead, he still speaks.

By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and “he was found no more because God had taken him.” Before he was taken up, he was attested to have pleased God.

But without faith it is impossible to please him, for anyone who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

By faith Noah, warned about what was not yet seen, with reverence built an ark for the salvation of his household. Through this he condemned the world and inherited the righteousness that comes through faith.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance; he went out, not knowing where he was to go.

By faith he sojourned in the promised land as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs of the same promise; for he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and maker is God.

By faith he received power to generate, even though he was past the normal age–and Sarah herself was sterile–for he thought that the one who had made the promise was trustworthy.

So it was that there came forth from one man, himself as good as dead, descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sands on the seashore. All these died in faith. They did not receive what had been promised but saw it and greeted it from afar and acknowledged themselves to be strangers and aliens on earth, for those who speak thus show that they are seeking a homeland. If they had been thinking of the land from which they had come, they would have had opportunity to return. But now they desire a better homeland, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

(con’t)

 

[FraterInChristo]

By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac descendants shall bear your name.” He reasoned that God was able to raise even from the dead, and he received Isaac back as a symbol.

By faith regarding things still to come Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau.

By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and “bowed in worship, leaning on the top of his staff.”

By faith Joseph, near the end of his life, spoke of the Exodus of the Israelites and gave instructions about his bones.

By faith Moses was hidden by his parents for three months after his birth, because they saw that he was a beautiful child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; he chose to be ill-treated along with the people of God rather than enjoy the fleeting pleasure of sin. He considered the reproach of the Anointed greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the recompense.

By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s fury, for he persevered as if seeing the one who is invisible.

By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

By faith they crossed the Red Sea as if it were dry land, but when the Egyptians attempted it they were drowned.

By faith the walls of Jericho fell after being encircled for seven days.

By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with the disobedient, for she had received the spies in peace.

What more shall I say? I have not time to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, did what was righteous, obtained the promises; they closed the mouths of lions, put out raging fires, escaped the devouring sword; out of weakness they were made powerful, became strong in battle, and turned back foreign invaders. Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection. Others endured mockery, scourging, even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, sawed in two, put to death at sword’s point; they went about in skins of sheep or goats, needy, afflicted, tormented. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and on mountains, in caves and in crevices in the earth.

Yet all these, though approved because of their faith, did not receive what had been promised. God had foreseen something better for us, so that without us they should not be made perfect.

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God.

Consider how he endured such opposition from sinners, in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart.

~ Hebrews 11:1 - 12:3