Noah and the Ark - Fact or Fiction?

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maria_rose said:
Is the story symbolic as well or a real historical event as I believe?
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Hi
I think it is not a fiction, it is a real historical event, it is mentioned in Quran, the perfect Word of GodAllahYHWH it itis original text. There are legends of this event in many nations.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
 
Patrick_Wright said:
The Genesis Flood and the Ark are very real events and that is how God wants us to understand them. Lets not complicate things by attempting to demonstrate that the Ark still exists although it could. The focus should be on the Flood and Ark event and its meaning to us now. Good books to read: “The Genesis Flood” by Dr. Whitcomb and Dr. Henry Morris from Baker Book House; “Sea Floor Sdiments” by Larry Vardiman, Phd. Institute for Creation Research; " An Ice Age Caused by the Genesis Flood" by Michael Oard, also ICR; “Panoram of Creation” Dr. Carl Baugh. There are many others for those willing to read them. Patrick Wright
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ARE YOU Kidding ? or what? henry morris is a fundamentalist -type who interprets everything literally. like the earth is 6000 years old or something. the Institute for Creation Research is a front for fundamentalists. Not real science at all. There was probably a local flood which the sacred writers adopted to tell the story. Read the New Catholic Encyclopedia on the Flood. bibliog.
A. Dundes ed. The Flood Myth. c.1988
 
ARE YOU Kidding ? or what? henry morris is a fundamentalist -type who interprets everything literally. like the earth is 6000 years old or something. the Institute for Creation Research is a front for fundamentalists. Not real science at all. There was probably a local flood which the sacred writers adopted to tell the story. Read the New Catholic Encyclopedia on the Flood. bibliog.
A. Dundes ed. The Flood Myth. c.1988

You are free to believe in evolution, if you think that makes more sense. But don’t insult my intelligence by calling it science. Evolution is religion. It is based on faith. No one has ever seen it. Evolutionists just believe it.

And they attack anyone who does not believe in Evolutionism. Does that sound like science? Science is supposed to be the search for the truth. Evolutionism is a dogmatic belief, based on things not seen. It’s premise is rejection of the Creator, and His replacement by natural forces.

ابو كمون
 
Orogeny said:
There is no evidence supporting a global flood. No geology, no archeology. Had the flood been a real event, there would be an enormous amount of evidence that would be impossible to not see. But there is none.

The story of the flood is symbolic.

Peace

Tim
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TIM, I agree with you. But we seem to be on the minority in this thread! I can’t believe there are so many literalists out there. Henry Morris has more followers than i thought. I think the article on Noah in the New Catholic Encyclopedia is balanced. Gives credit to the Hebrew language for its beautiful portrayal of Noah, while not adding it all up as exact historical factoid.
 
This is a response to the OP (I’m not going to read through all the pages :p)

I have read a small book written by a creationist on the subject. While I find it interesting, I have to say that I do not believe for a second that the whole story is historically true. I do not recall ever thinking that it MIGHT be historically true.

It just doesn’t make sense… people back then didn’t even know what the world was. They thought the world was much, much smaller and flat. In THEIR context, the story might be true.

The amount of water required to cover the whole Earth is simply immense, and God would need to conjure it and then destroy it after the flood. I do not believe that God would cover his tracks either and this ties in well with the fact that we have no evidence of a global flood ever occurring.

I personally believe that it is probably fact mixed with fiction due to passing of the story orally throughout generations. I do believe that the ship may be lodged up in Mt Ararat but I certainly don’t believe there was ever a global flood.
 
gell said:
This is a response to the OP (I’m not going to read through all the pages :p)

I have read a small book written by a creationist on the subject. While I find it interesting, I have to say that I do not believe for a second that the whole story is historically true. I do not recall ever thinking that it MIGHT be historically true.

It just doesn’t make sense… people back then didn’t even know what the world was. They thought the world was much, much smaller and flat. In THEIR context, the story might be true.

The amount of water required to cover the whole Earth is simply immense, and God would need to conjure it and then destroy it after the flood. I do not believe that God would cover his tracks either and this ties in well with the fact that we have no evidence of a global flood ever occurring.

I personally believe that it is probably fact mixed with fiction due to passing of the story orally throughout generations. I do believe that the ship may be lodged up in Mt Ararat but I certainly don’t believe there was ever a global flood.
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OBIT for HENRY MORRIS-- < www.bostonglobe.com/news/ >

Mr. Morris’s ideas have been roundly rejected by mainstream scientists, but they continue to hold considerable sway over the beliefs of millions of Americans and other people around the globe. His books became the intellectual bulwark of a movement led mostly by fundamentalist Christians who seek to expose what they see as flaws in the theory of evolution. The books have been the basis for many attempts to introduce creationism or similar theories in the public schools.

Mr. Morris was a staunch ''young Earth" creationist who believed with unbending certainty that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and was made in six 24-hour days. Mammals and human beings were created on the sixth day. He maintained that fossils were animals that died during the biblical flood or were placed in rocks to give the appearance of age.

''If the Bible is the Word of God – and it is," he wrote in his 1974 book, ''Scientific Creationism," ''then it must be firmly believed that the world and all things in it were created in six natural days and that the long geological ages of evolutionary history never really took place at
 
Seagirt said:
OBIT for HENRY MORRIS-- < www.bostonglobe.com/news/ >

Mr. Morris’s ideas have been roundly rejected by mainstream scientists, but they continue to hold considerable sway over the beliefs of millions of Americans and other people around the globe. His books became the intellectual bulwark of a movement led mostly by fundamentalist Christians who seek to expose what they see as flaws in the theory of evolution. The books have been the basis for many attempts to introduce creationism or similar theories in the public schools.

Mr. Morris was a staunch ''young Earth" creationist who believed with unbending certainty that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and was made in six 24-hour days. Mammals and human beings were created on the sixth day. He maintained that fossils were animals that died during the biblical flood or were placed in rocks to give the appearance of age.

''If the Bible is the Word of God – and it is," he wrote in his 1974 book, ''Scientific Creationism," ''then it must be firmly believed that the world and all things in it were created in six natural days and that the long geological ages of evolutionary history never really took place at
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One has to wonder what motivates a person like Morris to write such dribble.
 
gell said:
One has to wonder what motivates a person like Morris to write such dribble.
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**he wrote it because that was what he believed.
me? i try not to ‘see’ God in ‘human’ terms.
as a little kid, i read a bible verse somewhere that said a blink of His eye is a thousand years to us. (i am paraphrasing obviously).
believe me…it didn’t take long to learn not to bring THAT up in a baptist sunday school class. LOL.
“I” think the 6 days creation happened…but not in OUR understanding of time.
i believe the flood happened…but the point raised as to the beliefs of the people living then as to their environment may very well mean that it was a BIG flood (destroying a LARGE area) but not covering the world.
i’m not so sure about evolution AS evolution…though…we, as humans, are evolving…long life spans for example. yes…that’s largly due to better medical care, better food and housing, etc. BUT…MAYBE (and this is just a rehtorical ‘maybe’) God created a being that WOULD evolve into who we are.
**
 
gell said:
This is a response to the OP (I’m not going to read through all the pages :p)

I have read a small book written by a creationist on the subject. While I find it interesting, I have to say that I do not believe for a second that the whole story is historically true. I do not recall ever thinking that it MIGHT be historically true.

It just doesn’t make sense… people back then didn’t even know what the world was. They thought the world was much, much smaller and flat. In THEIR context, the story might be true.
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Flat earth myth
 
abu_kamoon said:
ARE YOU Kidding ? or what? henry morris is a fundamentalist -type who interprets everything literally. like the earth is 6000 years old or something. the Institute for Creation Research is a front for fundamentalists. Not real science at all. There was probably a local flood which the sacred writers adopted to tell the story. Read the New Catholic Encyclopedia on the Flood. bibliog.
A. Dundes ed. The Flood Myth. c.1988

You are free to believe in evolution, if you think that makes more sense. But don’t insult my intelligence by calling it science. Evolution is religion. It is based on faith. No one has ever seen it. Evolutionists just believe it.

And they attack anyone who does not believe in Evolutionism. Does that sound like science? Science is supposed to be the search for the truth. Evolutionism is a dogmatic belief, based on things not seen. It’s premise is rejection of the Creator, and His replacement by natural forces.

ابو كمون
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EVOLUTION does not necessarily reject a Creator. God willed space time into existence about 14 billion years ago. Who else had the job ? Creation ex nihilo. God can create natural forces just like he creates everything else. The mytho-poetic forms of Genesis do not have to read like a morning newspaper.
 
buffalo said:
Flat earth myth
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“This is interesting because the Bible itself implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so.”

We aren’t talking about the Middle Ages here. I was just trying to make the point that back then people didn’t even know what the world was.
 
colliric said:
nope, no and no. It’s actually because there was an avalanche less than a century ago which rendered that area unexplorable by foot.

It can’t be accessed on foot.
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I think there is another reason, but firstly you must remember that some 30 odd years ago there was a heat wave over the place and there are photos taken by plane by satilite and by people who were able to climb the summit at the time and saw the Ark. I have a vidio of it and the american, Colonial Armstrong from NASA (I think first on the moon) saw the Ark by plane.On my vidio he talks about it and so do other people who have seen it in those days.
Your point though, when the huge earth quake happened I can’t remember when but it split the side of the Mount and the Ark was split into two pieces.
There is though in the vidio a photo that shows a dowl that was found in the piece of wood from it that shows the dowl to be made of two different composits of metal. Scients of this day have never been able to understand how the two composits were welded together.
Also the timber of that day were never found in the area where the Ark was built so there are many questions. Scientists are not able to asnswer the queations so they refuse to speak about it.
It is the same with the pyrimids in which they have never found black soot or signs of smoke on the ceilings, so how did they light the place? Well! there is a photo of a wall where a 3D piece of art was shows three Egyptians walkiing in the corridor and in their arms they have huge light bulbes held together by long leads that seemto show light bulbs on electric leads. Also think of this I have a photo of in the Azteks where a carving ona piece of metal exactly like a pin has a carving on the pin head it holds ( i think ) 24 knobs on the eadge with a head in the centre. Scientist has NO answer to these findings.I have manyof these findings that dumbfound scientists.
The Arc is real and is not a scientific hokes.
Any wayGod bless
littleone
littleone
 
gell said:
“This is interesting because the Bible itself implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so.”

We aren’t talking about the Middle Ages here. I was just trying to make the point that back then people didn’t even know what the world was.
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Anyone who went near a large body of water could see it wasn’t flat.
 
maria_rose said:
I’m currently involved in a Bible Study on Genesis. We read the story of Noah, the Ark and the Flood.
Does anyone here have any links or book suggestions on finding out more of the historical authenticity of this event. According to tradition and scripture ,the Ark is resting on Mount Ararat(in modern Turkey).
I remember reading something about that a long time ago.
Anyone have any leads on this?
Is the story symbolic as well or a real historical event as I believe?
Click to expand...
This is a good book - noahs-ark-flood.com/

The author suggests, & gives many reasons for suggesting, that the Flood narrative in Genesis is based on a local flood that happened in 2900 BC or so in Sumer - i.e., in the south of what is now Iraq.

Which would mean that there is an historical core to the Genesis account. As for the theological meaning of the text of the account in Genesis - that is separate from the historical events in Iraq upon which the account in Genesis is based.

So the account in Genesis -* if* the above is correct - is an inspired re-telling of a story of non-Israelite origin based upon events in Sumer, which God Willed should be made the vehicle of a part of His revelation to His Chosen People 🙂

For an English translation of the remains of the Sumerian narrative - go to: etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr174.htm

IOW, to ask for a choice between fact or fiction, does not really do justice to the way in which the text of Genesis is conveying God’s revelation: the text is, (so to put it) much richer in meaning than that.

Hope that helps
 
I took a Scripture course on Genesis, and we discussed both the historical and allegorical elements of the Flood account quite thoroughly. There are actually two different accounts of the Flood in Genesis, each making slightly different claims, but that is kind of beside the point…

Allegorically, in the Flood, the “Firmament” that separates the heavens and the earth is broken and then restored, and so it is, as we commonly hear, a re-creation narrative.

Historically, it correlates very closely to parts of the Epic of Gilgamesh (as well as a great deal of other ancient “flood” literature from the same period). The actual, historical literary sources for both of these narratives are thought to have originated from the same period, and so if one is referring to an actual historical event, then they both probably are.

The scientific evidence I am less sure on, though I noticed that in the first few pages of this thread there was one guy going on about the lack of a geological record. I am dubious of this claim, as there is an emerging school of thought which contends that there was a pre-historical flood, at least in the area centered around Israel and Egypt. See Robert Schoch, The Voices of the Rocks. There is other, less “popular” scientific literature out there, though I can’t recall the specific sources. My father is also a geologist, however, and tells me that there is nothing prima fasciae contradictory about these emerging ideas.

Anyways, thats just a very brief rundown on the parts that I am familiar with.
 
maria_rose said:
I’m currently involved in a Bible Study on Genesis. We read the story of Noah, the Ark and the Flood.
Does anyone here have any links or book suggestions on finding out more of the historical authenticity of this event. According to tradition and scripture ,the Ark is resting on Mount Ararat(in modern Turkey).
I remember reading something about that a long time ago.
Anyone have any leads on this?
Is the story symbolic as well or a real historical event as I believe?
Click to expand...
Below is a link to a scholarly article that will shed some light on the subject. →
sunstoneonline.com/magazine/issues/134/134-27-45.pdf
 
People have believed it for thousands of years. Cultures all over the world have a flood legend, and yet today, we are too smart to believe it!

If it is not true, why is it in the Bible? Has God been playing a trick on people all this time until now, with our great wisdom, we are able to see through His untruth? What are the credentials of those who tell us it is not true? How do they know?

No evidence of a global flood? Besides the almost universal flood stories found in all these cultures, how did fossilized shellfish get on the tops of mountains? How did the millions of fossils become fossils? To fossilize, an animal has to be rapidly burried under great pressure, or else it will decompose. The evidence all points to a universal flood.

ابو كمون
 
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