Noah's Ark?

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Third_Day said:
Why not believe that the flood covered the entire earth when scripture says that it did?

Genesis 6: 7 states that the flood would destroy man and the animals from the face of the earth.That hardly could be a local flood.
Genesis 7:11 “ALL the fountains of the great burst forth.”
Genesus 7:19 “ALL the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered”
Peter says in 2 Peter 3:6 “the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.” In context Peter is comparing the destruction of the entire world at the end of time with the destruction of the entire world by the flood.

We should always read the bible literally unless the is a obvious reason to do otherwise

Regarding the animals that you mentioned I would like to suggest two books The Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris and *The Doctrines of Genesis *by Father Victor Warkulwiz
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Because geologists have determined that there was never a global flood of that magnitude.
 
Dunmoose said:
Additionally, would a wooden boat of the dimensions given in the biblical account be seaworthy in the first place? Wouldnt wave action tear the ship apart?
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Scale replicas of the Ark have been built. It would have been seaworthy.

Peace,
Ed
 
Kevin_Walker said:
This is also one reason why the Vatican is not threatened by the theory of evolution, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest what environmental changes the animals developed after the flood.

For example, a few dog species were developed in the 19th & 20th centuries, as well as cow types, well after the flood. So this is a good post to demonstrate how the Bible is a reliable source for Catholic thought.
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“not threatened”? According to who?

Peace,
Ed
 
Orogeny said:
If you read closely, AIG doesn’t answer the question. Obviously, according to them, it didn’t come from the sky. As they correctly noted, the volume of water in the atmosphere necessary would have created such high temperatures that all life would have perished, including Noah. So it didn’t come from the sky.

It must have come from the ground. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism for it to be there in the first place. So they postulate (extra-biblically, I might add) that catastrophic plate tectonics cause the flood. Unfortunately for them, science, specifically physics and geology, disagrees. The energy generated by such large-scale movement of tectonic plates would have, again, overhelmed life on earth, Noah included. They quote Steve Austin as saying that the sea floor rose 6,500 ft because of the heat generated by the rapid plate movements and that is what caused the flood. Why was the heat only relegated to sea floor lifting. Where did the latent heat go?

Where is the evidence of these massive, catastrophic events that occurred within man’s history? Why do we still have oceans? Where did the water go after the flood? Why is there NO geological evidence of a one-time global flood when floods leave masses of evidence of their existence?

These arguments are not biblical. If you want to say that Noah’s flood really happened and that it was truly global because the bible says so, you can’t reach outside of the bible to explain it. Just claim that it was a miracle and don’t try to use science to explain it.

Peace

Tim
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This is all speculation. A new discovery have been made:

livescience.com/1312-huge-ocean-discovered-earth.html

I believe God can do things only God can do.

Peace,
Ed
 
rwoehmke said:
Pope after pope has said that our Faith is reasonable, yet we find ourselves having discussions like this. I found a quote f that I think is very appropriate.
In his book Thomas E. Woods Jr.( How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization) has a quotation from Edward Grants book “Science and Technology in the Middle Ages” which is attributed to Thomas Aquinas. It says as follows:

“First, the truth of Scripture must be held inviolable. Secondly when there are different ways of explaining a Scriptural text, no particular explanation should be held so rigidly that, if convincing arguements show it to be false, anyone dare to insist that it still is the definitive sense of the text. Otherwise unbelievers will scorn Sacred Scripture and the way to faith will be closed to them.”

In this day when there is sufficent archeological and/or scientific evidence that contradicts certain historical or scientific parts of the Scriptures it seems obvious that biblical history and science in the Old Testament needs be taken as carrying only theological truth. So what is to be made of narratives like the Creation, the Exodus, Noah’s Ark, David and Solomons Kingdom and such like?
newadvent.org/summa/106801.htm
On the contrary, It is written (Genesis 1:6): “God said: let there be a firmament,” and further on (verse 8); “And the evening and morning were the second day.”

I answer that, In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to observed, as Augustine teaches (Gen. ad lit. i, 18). The first is, to hold the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation, only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it, if it be proved with certainty to be false; lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing.
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I am skeptical of most claims of trying to keep Scripture from being ridiculed based on supposed scientific evidence. The key words are “with certainty.” As far as I’m concerned, there is no certainty here, just two camps. One side believes God can and has done anything, the other side consists mostly of what I call the Bible Explanation Industry. The claim that certain parts of the Bible must adhere to science inspired me to create the following book idea: The God Who Did Nothing - How the God of the Bible is Incapable of Miracles, especially in the Old Testament.

This should be the primary concern of all Catholics, not a “carved in stone and you must believe it today” scientific claim.

Peace,
Ed
 
Thoughtfulone said:
Because geologists have determined that there was never a global flood of that magnitude.
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Geologists can determined no such thing. For one thing they weren’t there to witness whether or not there was a flood. There are geologists who admit that a catastrophic event took place thousands of years ago.
What we have is scripture and Church Tradition against science that rejects both.
There is geological evidence all over the world of a massive flood that was worldwide in scope. Once such place is Agate Springs Nebraska where every kind of animal was rapidly buried together by water.

visitscottsbluff.com/attractions/agate-fossil-beds

All coal is vegetable matter produced by the rapid burial of vegetation. Coal is found on every continent. Marine fossils have been found on mountain tops and salt lakes are found in the Tibetan plateau which are over sixteen thousand feet in height.
 
Thoughtfulone said:
This is true, and the Cinderella story also occurs in every culture across the globe. It may be an argument for a collective unconscious, but not necessarily for the veracity of any of these stories.
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Collective unconscious??? Oh -boy…:nope:
 
Third_Day said:
Geologists can determined no such thing. For one thing they weren’t there to witness whether or not there was a flood. There are geologists who admit that a catastrophic event took place thousands of years ago.
What we have is scripture and Church Tradition against science that rejects both.
There is geological evidence all over the world of a massive flood that was worldwide in scope. Once such place is Agate Springs Nebraska where every kind of animal was rapidly buried together by water.

visitscottsbluff.com/attractions/agate-fossil-beds

All coal is vegetable matter produced by the rapid burial of vegetation. Coal is found on every continent. Marine fossils have been found on mountain tops and salt lakes are found in the Tibetan plateau which are over sixteen thousand feet in height.
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You’re kidding, right? Geologists dig into the Earth and can tell by the soil samples and depth of the different strata of rock and soil and the moisture content therein whether/when a flood took place. They have determined that no global flood ever took place everywhere at one time.
 
Why I don’t believe the legend of Noah and the Ark
Code: 
 1. God is love, we read in the Bible. Our Lord is compassionate and forgiving. How could such a God drown everyone but one family, including children and even babies still in the womb? It makes God out to be one who commits genocide.

 2. Note in Gen. 1 God saw that everything was good. But in Gen. 6 mankind was wicked, worthy apparently of wholesame extermination. In verse 6 it says that God repented that he had created humankind. Did God make a mistake? Does God make mistakes? Then why repent? 

 3. Building the ark sounds fishy. It seems to reflect a legend out of Babylonia, as I recall, of Gilgamesh who did something similar. Probably there was a mammoth flood in the area at some time, and - as happens - it got blown out of proportion. To cover the entire earth? Hm! An ancient event exaggerated well beyond what actually happend.

 4. I recall learning that the animals came by two by two etc. Cute for children, but even as a child I wondered how they could have been rounded up and herded into the ark, how they could be cared for and fed for 150 days (Gen. 8:3), and why would God drown all the other animals, let alone all other human beings?

 5. There is a very suspicious verse just as the Noah story unfolds. "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all that they chose." You'd have to convince me that this isn't evidence of pagan influence. Sounds more like Greek mythology than Christianity. The same for Gen. 6:4 - "and there were giants in the earth in those days" etc.

 6. Let's face it, the Bible is filled with wisdom and other powerful spiritual food, but much of it is wrong, even preposterous. Did God really order Joshua to slaughter everyone in Jericho except the prostitute-traitor Rahab and her family? Did God tell Saul to kill every last Amalekite? Contrast that with the Ten Commandments, or with the Sermon on the Mount. 

  No wonder more and more people seem to be leaving the church. They want to rational, reasonable religion that doesn't ignore logic, common sense, and common morality. How could the God we worship condemn all humankind to drowning? I won't believe it. Such a God would be more like Hitler than Christ.

  We condemn Islam for its harsh narrow-mindedness, how in some Islamic countries they have the right to kill Muslims who become Christians, stone adulterers to death, etc.  I think they got a lot of Sharia law from the Mosaic law. See, for example, Ex. 22:20 - or Lev. 21, Lev. 20, Deut. 22-23. We seem to skip over such horrendous 'laws' in our study of scripture, and make heroes out of such immoral guys as Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon and others. Abraham wanted to pass his wife off as his sister and threw Hagar into the desert after she had borne him a son. Jacob was a liar and cheat. David saw Bathsheba and had her husband killed so that he could have her. Solomon had - what was it? - 700 wives and 300 concubines - something like that. What sort of morals are these for anyone to emulate?
 
Roy5 said:
Why I don’t believe the legend of Noah and the Ark
Code: 
 1. God is love, we read in the Bible. Our Lord is compassionate and forgiving. How could such a God drown everyone but one family, including children and even babies still in the womb? It makes God out to be one who commits genocide.

 2. Note in Gen. 1 God saw that everything was good. But in Gen. 6 mankind was wicked, worthy apparently of wholesame extermination. In verse 6 it says that God repented that he had created humankind. Did God make a mistake? Does God make mistakes? Then why repent? 

 3. Building the ark sounds fishy. It seems to reflect a legend out of Babylonia, as I recall, of Gilgamesh who did something similar. Probably there was a mammoth flood in the area at some time, and - as happens - it got blown out of proportion. To cover the entire earth? Hm! An ancient event exaggerated well beyond what actually happend.

 4. I recall learning that the animals came by two by two etc. Cute for children, but even as a child I wondered how they could have been rounded up and herded into the ark, how they could be cared for and fed for 150 days (Gen. 8:3), and why would God drown all the other animals, let alone all other human beings?

 5. There is a very suspicious verse just as the Noah story unfolds. "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all that they chose." You'd have to convince me that this isn't evidence of pagan influence. Sounds more like Greek mythology than Christianity. The same for Gen. 6:4 - "and there were giants in the earth in those days" etc.

 6. Let's face it, the Bible is filled with wisdom and other powerful spiritual food, but much of it is wrong, even preposterous. Did God really order Joshua to slaughter everyone in Jericho except the prostitute-traitor Rahab and her family? Did God tell Saul to kill every last Amalekite? Contrast that with the Ten Commandments, or with the Sermon on the Mount. 

  No wonder more and more people seem to be leaving the church. They want to rational, reasonable religion that doesn't ignore logic, common sense, and common morality. How could the God we worship condemn all humankind to drowning? I won't believe it. Such a God would be more like Hitler than Christ.

  We condemn Islam for its harsh narrow-mindedness, how in some Islamic countries they have the right to kill Muslims who become Christians, stone adulterers to death, etc.  I think they got a lot of Sharia law from the Mosaic law. See, for example, Ex. 22:20 - or Lev. 21, Lev. 20, Deut. 22-23. We seem to skip over such horrendous 'laws' in our study of scripture, and make heroes out of such immoral guys as Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon and others. Abraham wanted to pass his wife off as his sister and threw Hagar into the desert after she had borne him a son. Jacob was a liar and cheat. David saw Bathsheba and had her husband killed so that he could have her. Solomon had - what was it? - 700 wives and 300 concubines - something like that. What sort of morals are these for anyone to emulate?
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Yes God is love. He is also the Creator and can do what He wishes with His Creation.

The question is - what happened to all the souls that perished? Do you know?

Mistakes? No God did not make a mistake. Humans became wicked. Humankind was wicked and this proliferation had to stop. When you go to the doctor to remove a tumor, do you ask him to just remove part of it?

Giglamesh is a corruption.

You can ask God when you see Him why He made the selections. Does God not have control over His creatures? He could not have called them and they heard Him and obeyed? Some theorize that the animals were not all full grown and in a state of stasis.
  1. Do you know about chiastic structures? Check it out for the flood story.
Sons of God refer to offspring of Set and daughters of men refer to Cain’s.

Perhaps all those leaving would rather have the OT cleansed of politcally incorrect passages. Would that suit you better?
 
Thoughtfulone said:
I wouldn’t know, but a geologist could certainly tell you by taking a soil sample from the deepest part of the canyon and then taking a sample from the most shallow part. He could also tell you about every age in between. Just by looking at the rocks you yourself should be able to see the strata.
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Would you believe 1 day? If you do then you would agree with modern scientists too. But for along time they insisted it took a very long time.

That same flood “drilled” these potholes out of solid rock many feet deep, in yes you guessed it - about 1 day.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrX-TmNWXqO3oPS3umQVxFRdktppSTMhDFqSmikM8YqZsyzxpN
 
http://users.rowan.edu/~wyrick/scablands/Burlingame Canyonbig.jpg

How long did it take to form this canyon? If one were to go by the “strata” that is visible one would assume that it must be millions of years old. It took less than six days! An irrigation ditch overflowed during a rain storm and the Burlingame Canyon was formed.

This Canyon is miniscule compared to the Grand Canyon but consider what a world -wide flood where it rained forty days and forty nights and covered the entire earth for over a year could form.!
Also consider that this world-flood was accompanied by powerful earthquakes with massive shifting of the tectonic plates.Massive flooding with enormous amounts of sediment would have been deposted all over the earth.

The Grand Canyon could have been formed in only a few days.
 
Why is it so important for you to believe that a global flood actually occurred? Most scientists and Catholic theologians disagree with this interpretation.
 
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