Noah's youngest

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johnnycatholic

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Sorry if this has been gone over before, but i’m too lazy to search old posts.
Why was Noah upset with his youngest son who saw him passed out drunk in the nude? What sin did he commit?
Thanking you in advance,
j.
 
johnnycatholic said:
Sorry if this has been gone over before, but i’m too lazy to search old posts.
Why was Noah upset with his youngest son who saw him passed out drunk in the nude? What sin did he commit?
Thanking you in advance,
j.
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The way the story is written - the youngest saw that his father was naked and went out and told the brothers about it. Instead of doing the decent respectful thing, which would be to cover him up himself and say nothing about it to anyone.

In other words, rather than concealing his father’s shame he (most likely) joked or scoffed about it to his brothers instead.
 
I’ve heard this described as the youngest son having incest with his mother (trying to take over the head of the family). I can’t recall how this assumption was made. Maybe someone else knows?
 
NotWorthy said:
I’ve heard this described as the youngest son having incest with his mother (trying to take over the head of the family). I can’t recall how this assumption was made. Maybe someone else knows?
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That assumption is based on the following:

IN Genesis 9:22 we read that Ham saw the nakedness of his father. This phrase appears again in Lev. which states that a man who sleeps with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness. From this, some believe that Ham’s true misdeed was sleeping with Noah’s wife.
 
NotWorthy said:
I’ve heard this described as the youngest son having incest with his mother (trying to take over the head of the family). I can’t recall how this assumption was made. Maybe someone else knows?
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They might be confusing this story with the daughters of Lot, who DID get their father drunk and commit incest with him after his wife was turned into a pillar of salt at the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I don’t think incest is in issue here, but perhaps he was trying to undermine the father by making him out to be old and feeble.
 
John Bergsma and Scott Hahn offer a fascinating opinion on Ham’s sin and the euphemisms of this passage in a paper published in the Journal of Biblical Literature; the text can be found here (don’t be scared off – it’s very readable):

www.sbl-site.org/Publications/JBL/JBL1241.pdf
 
slowbutfaithful said:
John Bergsma and Scott Hahn offer a fascinating opinion on Ham’s sin and the euphemisms of this passage in a paper published in the Journal of Biblical Literature; the text can be found here (don’t be scared off – it’s very readable):

www.sbl-site.org/Publications/JBL/JBL1241.pdf
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Man, I’ve NEVER seen attempts to read so much into so little in my life! Not that these alternative explanations aren’t possible, of course.

But in cases such as the laws in Deuteronomy, or stories of Lot and his daughters, the Bible isn’t backward in coming forward to name incest or homosexuality for what they are - why the need to be obtuse in the case of Noah?
 
LilyM said:
… in cases such as the laws in Deuteronomy, or stories of Lot and his daughters, the Bible isn’t backward in coming forward to name incest or homosexuality for what they are - why the need to be obtuse in the case of Noah?
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Excellent question. Who knows? Genesis holds a very special place in setting the stage for the New Testament … more so than the other books of the Pentateuch. Perhaps the extra attention leads to more speculation.

If you read “The Red Tent” … even novelists venture into territories left alone in other parts of the Bible.
 
LilyM said:
Man, I’ve NEVER seen attempts to read so much into so little in my life! Not that these alternative explanations aren’t possible, of course.

But in cases such as the laws in Deuteronomy, or stories of Lot and his daughters, the Bible isn’t backward in coming forward to name incest or homosexuality for what they are - why the need to be obtuse in the case of Noah?
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Well, I’ve seen a lot of attempts to read things in the Bible that aren’t there – Mary being the new ark of the covenant, Jesus fullfilling 700 prophecies in the “OT”, Jesus and Mary being the new Adam and Eve…
 
Valke2 said:
Well, I’ve seen a lot of attempts to read things in the Bible that aren’t there – Mary being the new ark of the covenant, Jesus fullfilling 700 prophecies in the “OT”, Jesus and Mary being the new Adam and Eve…
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The name for the Trinity is also not in the Bible, but the concept is there.
 
The Haydock commentary in the D-R Bible on Gen 9:22:

His nakedness prefigured the desolate condition of Christ on the cross, which was a scandal to the Jews, and foolishness to the Gentiles. But by this folly we are made wise; we are redeemed, and enjoy the name of Christians. Sem and Japheth represent the multitude of believers while Cham and Chanaan the audacity and impudence of all unbelievers.
 
Valke2 said:
Well, I’ve seen a lot of attempts to read things in the Bible that aren’t there – Mary being the new ark of the covenant, Jesus fullfilling 700 prophecies in the “OT”, Jesus and Mary being the new Adam and Eve…
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By what authority do you say these things aren’t there? The Bible does bookend things in the old and new testaments. Who are you to say these are mere coincidences when Christ
himself said he came to fulfill the law?
 
Valke2 said:
Well, I’ve seen a lot of attempts to read things in the Bible that aren’t there – Mary being the new ark of the covenant, Jesus fullfilling 700 prophecies in the “OT”, Jesus and Mary being the new Adam and Eve…
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Yeah, and I’ve seen a lot of attempts where people gloss over these truths and deny them… 🙂
 
LRThunder said:
The name for the Trinity is also not in the Bible, but the concept is there.
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Thanks. FOrgot about that one. FInding scriptual proof of the trinity seem at least as difficult as finding scriptual proof that Ham’s crime was sleeping with Noah’s wife.
 
dafalax said:
By what authority do you say these things aren’t there? The Bible does bookend things in the old and new testaments. Who are you to say these are mere coincidences when Christ
himself said he came to fulfill the law?
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I am me. And I’m responding to a post that asked why we would have to jump through exegisistic hoops to reach a conclusion about the sin of Noah’s son.
 
Ham, Noah’s youngest son, saw his father naked laughed went outside and told Japheth and Shem, Japheth and Shem being elder and more wiser than Ham, didn’t think it was funny, so they did the respectful thing by covering up Noah’s nakedness.
 
Valke2 said:
Thanks. FOrgot about that one. FInding scriptual proof of the trinity seem at least as difficult as finding scriptual proof that Ham’s crime was sleeping with Noah’s wife.
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In Matthew 28:19 Jesus told his disciples: “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Can’t get much clearer than that in Scripture about the Trinity!
 
thistle said:
In Matthew 28:19 Jesus told his disciples: “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

Can’t get much clearer than that in Scripture about the Trinity!
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Not to mention at Jesus’s baptism: God the Son (Jesus) was being baptized; God the Holy Spirit descended like a dove and God the Father said, “This is my son, with whom I am well pleased.”
 
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