Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons

[Ahimsa]

Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons is a documentary about African American Latter-day Saints, now in post-production. The project is headed by Margaret Young and Darius Gray, authors of several award-winning books and articles about Black Mormons, and by Danor Gerald, a promising new filmmaker.

Few people, Mormon and non-Mormon, are aware that there has been an African American presence in the LDS Church from its earliest days, that the vanguard company of Mormon pioneers included three “colored servants” who were baptized Mormons, and whose descendants remained active in the Church for several generations.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

I’ve not seen the documentaries, but I’ve been impressed with the work of both the historians that you mentioned. I hope that I don’t regret recommending the work on that basis. I imagine that it will be hard-hitting and accurate.

 

[truthsave]

I’ve not seen the documentaries, but I’ve been impressed with the work of both the historians that you mentioned. I hope that I don’t regret recommending the work on that basis. I imagine that it will be hard-hitting and accurate.

for a mormon their work would be accurate just if it not neutral enough to show deep shotcomings and contradiction in mormon doctrine if not you know how you will categorize it: anti mormon. Mormon get accuracy just from mormon authors.
So if they (the authors) are mormons you can expect accuracy and we canexpect just mormonism.

 

[Jesus_123]

**+ I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . **

• … I was raised as a child in the heart of “Mormon” country here in the United States … Though I knew many Mormons as friends in school and our neighborhood . . . their belief system is known to Catholics and Protestants alike essentially as a CULT . . . and it is an immensely large one . . . and their understandings, definitions and usage of the same religious and scriptural words are RADICALLY different . . .

Definition:

 

[meltzerboy]

**+ I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . **

Your post provides useful information about the most essential difference between the religious dogma of Mormonism and that of traditional Christianity, which worships the Triune G-d and Jesus as the second Person of the Trinity and G-d Incarnate, inseparable from G-d the Father and the Holy Spirit. Thank you for relating this in your engaging colorful style, both verbally and visually. My own understanding is that Mormons consider themselves Christians and believe Jesus to be the Son of G-d, the Savior, the Messiah, although SEPARATE from the Father and the Holy Spirit. Perhaps this is somewhat similar to the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses on the matter, but not exactly so. I think both groups, however, regard themselves as the True Christians.

That said, I feel compelled to disagree with your oblique references to the definition of cult and the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, the latter cautioning against the ensnarement of Satan. It’s not the information or the prayer itself I’m opposed to, but rather the fact you seem to be linking these references to the Mormon religion. You have, of course, every right to reject Mormonism as a valid form of Christianity. However, I believe you’re on shaky ground when you suggest, even implicitly, that the Mormon faith is somehow connected to Satan or that it is, by definition, a cult. I’m sure your intentions are pure according to your own faith. Still, I find this view lacking the spirit of tolerance toward the Mormon faith. Some denominations of Protestantism also have a different concept of the Trinity. This may be regarded as heresy (or apostasy) by the Church–as is Protestantism in general–but does that mean they are in league with Satan? And should we then think Jews, Muslims, and Hindus are also enslaved by the Evil One? Some have indeed expressed this view.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Your post provides useful information about the most essential difference between the religious dogma of Mormonism and that of traditional Christianity, which worships the Triune G-d and Jesus as the second Person of the Trinity and G-d Incarnate, inseparable from G-d the Father and the Holy Spirit. Thank you for relating this in your engaging colorful style, both verbally and visually. My own understanding is that Mormons consider themselves Christians and believe Jesus to be the Son of G-d, the Savior, the Messiah, although SEPARATE from the Father and the Holy Spirit. Perhaps this is somewhat similar to the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses on the matter, but not exactly so. I think both groups, however, regard themselves as the True Christians.

There’s just one teeny, weeny problem, though, Metz.

His so-called quote of GBH is as tweaked out as his use of Fonts.

As demonstrated thoroughly on another thread, his claim is a total
FRAUD

What GBH actually said is that we reject the extrabiblical traditions. GBH never said that we worship “a different Jesus” than that worshiped by other Christians.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

The more accurate distinction is that

Catholics believe in One God in Three Persons.

Mormons believe in Three persons in One God.

Heaven forbid! Get your torches!

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Truthsave, your annoying habit of grabbing one example and blowing it into a hasty generalization, is making it difficult for me to respect you.

for a mormon their work would be accurate just if it not neutral enough to show deep shotcomings and contradiction in mormon doctrine if not you know how you will categorize it: anti mormon.

That’s a grotesque oversimplification. I said that Ed Decker is an unreliable anti-mormon. If you don’t believe that, ask around Most anti-mormons, even the Tanners, professional anti-mormons, consider Ed Decker to be an embarassment, and sued him to get him to stop tying them into his lies. And in response, he got one of his nutty evangelical buddies to offer to exorcise them.

I don’t think and I’ve never said that all anti-LDS arguments were dishonest. Nor have I said that all LDS arguments are honest or accurate. And I could point you to sites like “mormon feminist housewives” where some of the worst anti-mormon arguments come right out of the mouths of active members of the LDS church.

I can think of one neutral non-LDS source right here on this board, and he’s actually more informed about the LDS church than a lot of mormons I know. BartBurk. BartBurk left the LDS church because he became convinced that the Catholic line of authority was true. Unlike some others who joined the Catholic church to get back at the mormon church.

There are some non-LDS sources that I’d actually characterize as pro-mormon, like “The American Religion,” written by an agnostic Jew.

Too much complexity for you? Then find something more simple to talk about. Stop trying to force nuanced issues and other persons into your simple Procrustean Box.

 

[Naf623]

I, as most LDS would be, am fully aware that there were black/Afro-A,erican members from the start. They were always permitted to be baptised and enjoy communion and membership with the church. What’s the big deal?

 

[Marie5890]

I, as most LDS would be, am fully aware that there were black/Afro-A,erican members from the start. They were always permitted to be baptised and enjoy communion and membership with the church. What’s the big deal?

When did it start that they were denied entrance into the temple or to be ordained to the Mormon priesthood.

I know all that was opened up in 1978, but prior to that, they could not be “sealed” or have any of the “blessing of temple worship”

They were barred from the priesthood and the temple through out most of LDS history.

I am struck by the title of the doctumantary, “Nobody Knows:—”

It seems to be hinting at Fawn Brodie’s biography of Joseph Smith. “Nobody Knows My History”

She was the neice of President David O McKay and was given full access to the church’s achieves. Something most historians were not allowed.

Her book did a lot to take away the myth/legend that had been built up around Joseph Smith, and got to the more accurate and historical picture of the real man.

I highly recommend.

 

[Ahimsa]

When did it start that they were denied entrance into the temple or to be ordained to the Mormon priesthood.

It started during B. Young’s tenure. Joseph Smith approved of African-American priesthood.

 

[Marie5890]

It started during B. Young’s tenure. Joseph Smith approved of African-American priesthood.

So I take it they had access into the temples and those rites? Were there sealings going on for them as well do you know? How about temple work for their dead?

I never got that far back into LDS history.

 

[Ahimsa]

So I take it they had access into the temples and those rites? Were there sealings going on for them as well do you know? How about temple work for their dead?

I never got that far back into LDS history.

As far as I know, African-Americans had all of the privileges that other Mormons had, in Joseph Smith’s lifetime.

 

[Tony888]

I just learned these facts last week.

1. 
   *]Joseph Smith had decided to run for President in 1844, before he was killed.
   
   *]Calling for the end of slavery was a key part of his platform.
   
   Joseph proposed the Govt would buy slaves their freedom at reasonable prices by selling Govt land and reducing Congressional salaries - I expect the cut salaries pitch did not make him very popular

 

[FabiusMaximus]

When did it start that they were denied entrance into the temple or to be ordained to the Mormon priesthood.

I know all that was opened up in 1978, but prior to that, they could not be “sealed” or have any of the “blessing of temple worship”

They were barred from the priesthood and the temple through out most of LDS history.

I am struck by the title of the doctumantary, “Nobody Knows:—”

It seems to be hinting at Fawn Brodie’s biography of Joseph Smith. “Nobody Knows My History”

She was the neice of President David O McKay and was given full access to the church’s achieves. Something most historians were not allowed.

Her book did a lot to take away the myth/legend that had been built up around Joseph Smith, and got to the more accurate and historical picture of the real man.

I highly recommend.

Given that the Roman Catholic Church prohibits women from entering the priesthood, I don’t think you have much of a leg to stand on in questioning the older Mormon practice of forbidding blacks from the priesthood.

Not that I’m criticizing barring women from the priesthood, but it cuts both ways.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Given that the Roman Catholic Church prohibits women from entering the priesthood, I don’t think you have much of a leg to stand on in questioning the older Mormon practice of forbidding blacks from the priesthood.

Not that I’m criticizing barring women from the priesthood, but it cuts both ways.

Seems to be apples to oranges here considering the LDS church also bars women from the priesthood.

 

[Marie5890]

Given that the Roman Catholic Church prohibits women from entering the priesthood, I don’t think you have much of a leg to stand on in questioning the older Mormon practice of forbidding blacks from the priesthood.

Not that I’m criticizing barring women from the priesthood, but it cuts both ways.

Former Mormon here.
I understand the doctrine of both.

Catholic church has never claimed that women dont hold the priesthood because of the “curse of Cain.” Nor have women been denied anything that in Catholic dogma, is fundamental to salvation, according again to dogma.

Blacks, according to Mormon theology, are recipients of the “curse of Cain”. So they were denied access to the temple rites, which according to Mormon theology, is fundamental to salvation.

 

[Marie5890]

Seems to be apples to oranges here considering the LDS church also bars women from the priesthood.

And for the same reason. Christ was a male.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Every Mormon male is a “priesthood” holder. 12 year old boys are ordained as a matter of course. Mormons teach very strongly that a house without a male priesthood holder in it is lacking in spiritual fortitude in a major way.

So, 1) a man who is denied being ordained a priesthood holder in Mormonism is being denied what it means to be a man in Mormon belief and culture. Everything, for a man, in Mormonism is based on him having been ordained. And 2) there is no comparison to Catholic priesthood. Not even in a male-only priesthood. Catholics ordain only men because Jesus Christ was a man, and the priest acts in the person of Christ.

I don’t know of any reason for Mormons to not ordain women. Males in Mormonism are not acting in the person of Christ, they believe they are wielding the power of gods.

 

[Naf623]

Catholic church has never claimed that women dont hold the priesthood because of the “curse of Cain.”

Nor have LDS.

Nor have women been denied anything that in Catholic dogma, is fundamental to salvation, according again to dogma.

Nor with LDS

Blacks, according to Mormon theology, are recipients of the “curse of Cain”. So they were denied access to the temple rites, which according to Mormon theology, is fundamental to salvation.

I’m not aware that has ever been doctrine. While I have heard the opinion voiced, and believe I understand the concepts involved, we do not really know the real meaning behind the comment when it was made, or if it was prophetic or opinion. It has never been embraced as part of our central or taught doctrine.

Every Mormon male is a “priesthood” holder. 12 year old boys are ordained as a matter of course.

Only those who are worthy to receive it, who have a testimony of Jesus Christ, who show a desire to be ordained, and understand the covenants entered into as a part of receiving the priesthood.

Mormons teach very strongly that a house without a male priesthood holder in it is lacking in spiritual fortitude in a major way.

We believe that having a priesthood holder in the household (and that could just as well be one of the children as the father) can bring great blessings to the family, in particular hat theynaremable to give blessings to their family during times of illness, distress, or trouble. I am very grateful to have grown up in a household where my father gave me a Father’s blessing before starting a new school, before exams, when I was ill, when I was struggling with anything at all. However, I know a number of people, much, much more faithful and righteous than I am, who grew up in a household where the father was not a member of the church.

1. a man who is denied being ordained a priesthood holder in Mormonism is being denied what it means to be a man in Mormon belief and culture. Everything, for a man, in Mormonism is based on him having been ordained.

No its not. All worthy men are entitled to receive he priesthood should they wish, and because of the blessings it allows them to bring to those around them most do (the priesthood can only be used to bless others). Receiving the priesthood is not essential.

1. there is no comparison to Catholic priesthood. Not even in a male-only priesthood. Catholics ordain only men because Jesus Christ was a man, and the priest acts in the person of Christ… Males in Mormonism are not acting in the person of Christ, they believe they are wielding the power of gods.

No we don’t. The priesthood is he authority to perform ordinances, blessings and, if occasion calls, miracles in Jesus’ name. The priesthood that 18+ men are entitled to receive is fully named: The Holy Priesthood After The Order Of The Son Of God. We tend to use this full title less often out of respect that we do not overuse Jesus’ and God’s names unnecessarily. We do not have he authority to command what God or Jesus will do, however the power that completes whatever we perform correctly and with correct authority (i.e. that makes a baptism valid, that heals the sick, hat seals on earth and in heaven) is, indeed, the power of God.

Throughout The Bible, it has always been God who decided who could operate His priesthood, and the reasons are not obvious to us why the tribe of Levi was chosen for example; but it was and is accepted hat his was the case, because God commanded it. Similarly, in the early church, God stipulated who could and couldn’t receive the priesthood (and it didn’t exclude blacks, but Afro-Americans), while we did not (and still do not) understand the reasons, we still did it because God commanded it. Just like many other things that we do not always know the reasons for right away, but we obey because it is the word of God.