Nocturnal emissions/Wet dreams

[Daniel_Kane]

I am just curious, how does masterbation divide?

Not being argumentative, just wanted to hear your explanation.

Thanks

It divides by taking the sexual act out of context (which in context is an expression of marital love) and turning it into a solitary activity commonly associated with a fantasy or pornography. When one is married (or one called to the State of Marriage but presently not in that State) masturbates, that person introduces another party (a fantasy) into the current or future relationship.

This can lead to compulsive and or addictive behavior, distorting a key component of marriage and martial unity.

So, by making an act that is exclusive to married couples and designed to unify them in a procreative manner (as biologically the male and female parts are designed to be united to each other in a fertile embrace) and turning it into a solitary act, that is often hidden, I would suggest that such a behavior divides. It inverts a communal act of the married couple (or future married couple) into a solitary, hidden activity and of course in not procreative. Compounding this division is the introduction of fantasy and pornography to assist in arousal of the male, introducing a third party into the relationship at least on a fantasy level.

That in short, is why I call it an act that divides.

 

[thomasf]

Thank you.

 

[Riley259]

A nocturnal emission is a normal physiologic event for some males and **NOT **a mortal sin as does not meet the criteria for a mortal sin, which is (1) grave matter (2) full knowledge of the sin and gravity of the act (3) commission with deliberate and complete consent. One cannot sin mortally by accident or while asleep.

Masturbation on the other hand is without question a mortal sin. Some may call it normal but in reality, one who calls it normal one really is trying to imply that it is a common activity, which no doubt it is. It is not normal, but common. One may or may not participate in such activity.

One who masturbates sins mortally b/c it fulfills all three of the criteria above and is a disordered use of the sexual faculty, which is the unity and procreation within the married state. In masturbation, neither is achieved, even within the married state. Because of the fantasy or pornography involved, it includes the “lust of the eyes” mentioned my Christ in Mt. 5:28.

Good reasons why masturbation is always a sin. I don’t believe noctural emissions are sinful because of the failure to meet the criteria for mortal sin as expounded upon by previous poster.

 

[kmcahill]

I know this is a very old threat but was curious on the topic of “if masturbation is a sin” and found that many believe wet dreams are not a sin.

Those who believe it to be a sin believe so because of lust from the awakened state transfers to when you are in the REM stages of sleep. But one way I believe it may be a sin is because when you are having a lucid REM dream, you are partialy in control (you can wake yourself), if you have the ability to wake yourself then you have the ability to halt the dream before it or yourself become overwhelmed.

 

[Lycorth]

Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?

Certainly not; you are not in control of your dreams nor of your body during them.

Some folks claim to be able to “lucid dream”, ie, control their dreams, but I doubt even if that is truly possible that most people are capable of it. But that’s another matter; wet dreams are not sinful, so long as you do not dwell on the dreams (assuming you can recall them) when you wake up and let them encourage you to sin.

 

[Podo2005]

Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?

NO

 

[BobObob]

I know this is a very old threat but was curious on the topic of “if masturbation is a sin” and found that many believe wet dreams are not a sin.

Those who believe it to be a sin believe so because of lust from the awakened state transfers to when you are in the REM stages of sleep. But one way I believe it may be a sin is because when you are having a lucid REM dream, you are partialy in control (you can wake yourself), if you have the ability to wake yourself then you have the ability to halt the dream before it or yourself become overwhelmed.

There are two ways that I see wet dreams may be associated with sin:
1 The wet dream is a lucid dream in which the person chooses to engage in sexual immorality.
2 The wet dream may be evidence of willfully entertaining lustful thoughts when awake.

Regarding #1, lucid dreams are (I believe) generally uncommon except for those who try to acquire them. Even if one is having a dream they may control, they may not be conscious enough in the dream to have “consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.” (CCC 1859)

Regarding #2, one may be tempted throughout an entire day with erotic thoughts, yet reject these thoughts. In this case, these unwanted erotic thoughts may cause him to have a wet dream. In this case, he is not sinning, since he didn’t consent to the erotic thoughts.

Wet dream could be sins if they are controllable or willed. Wet dreams could be evidence, but not infallible proof, of committing the sin of lust while awake. Very often, however, when someone has a wet dream, they did nothing wrong.

 

[shaky]

There are two ways that I see wet dreams may be associated with sin:
1 The wet dream is a lucid dream in which the person chooses to engage in sexual immorality.
2 The wet dream may be evidence of willfully entertaining lustful thoughts when awake.

Regarding #1, lucid dreams are (I believe) generally uncommon except for those who try to acquire them. Even if one is having a dream they may control, they may not be conscious enough in the dream to have “consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.” (CCC 1859)

Regarding #2, one may be tempted throughout an entire day with erotic thoughts, yet reject these thoughts. In this case, these unwanted erotic thoughts may cause him to have a wet dream. In this case, he is not sinning, since he didn’t consent to the erotic thoughts.

Wet dream could be sins if they are controllable or willed. Wet dreams could be evidence, but not infallible proof, of committing the sin of lust while awake. Very often, however, when someone has a wet dream, they did nothing wrong.

Hi bobobob

One of the fruits of the spirit is {self control} so nobody should worry about wet dreams
because wet dreams are inevitable When you abstain from masturbation.

because every thought has to come on the obedience of Christ.
By Gods Grace I do not think about sex all day every day. but sometimes subconsciously
for a few seconds thoughts come. a soon as i am aware i redirect them.

But what do you do when you have a erection that is there without sexual thought and the
erection will not Go away?

What i have done because it is throbbing. I have masturbated to the point of ejaculation this happens very Quickly without sexual thought to get rid of the erection.

This does not happen very often I do ask God to forgive and say the lords prayer in case it is sin. but in the back of my mind i am not convinced i have sinned there is no real godly sorrow i think its a bit unfair what is happening.

I have studied the word {lust and inordinate} and all it is telling me is that it is a excessive interest and desire in sex. This tells me this can happen in marriage and can be very damaging when you have a partner who wants to much sex. The bible says Love one another that includes everybody.
That does not mean you have sex with every one. Sex is sex love is love.
I 100% agree excessive masturbation can very damaging because you can go to extremes
excessive food and drink is damaging so is total abstain-st of it.
It is possible that if you drink water none stop it will kill you.
But you can go to the other extreme acetic treatment of the body as regards sex has proven to be damaging to health of the body.

Can anybody show me in the bible. {Making love is to do with sex?}

 

[jegow]

In and of themselves these instances are not sinful. The only thing that you would be responsible for is if you were willingly having impure thoughts the moments before you were going to bed. We always have to remember that our imaginations love to play back things that we were thinking of, quite often the last things we are thinking of before we go to bed. So if you are free of impure thoughts before you sleep or any other thing that could lead to a nocturnal emission then no sin happened.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Look, you need to be fully conscious for it to count toward being a mortal sin. It is impossible to be dreaming and be fully conscious. I understand the concept of lucid dreams, but they are nonetheless, dreams that which occur in the state of unconsciousness.

 

[shaky]

Look, you need to be fully conscious for it to count toward being a mortal sin. It is impossible to be dreaming and be fully conscious. I understand the concept of lucid dreams, but they are nonetheless, dreams that which occur in the state of unconsciousness.

Hi stringbeanduck

Some people sleepwalking have raped people and murdered people.

When taken to court they have be found not Guilty

 

[stringbeanduck]

Hi stringbeanduck

Some people sleepwalking have raped people and murdered people.

When taken to court they have be found** not Guilty**

And rightly so.

The TV show Forensic Files aired a case where a man beat his wife to death when he was asleep. It was pretty interesting to see the evidence.

 

[TheQuestioner]

No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn’t have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church’s response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.

 

[OraLabora]

No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn’t have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church’s response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.

Exactly, any attempts to blame lust prior to sleeping on this is akin to “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”

WAAYY too scrupulous! We are not in control of how our brain parses information during our sleep.

Incidentally, this is a question that puzzles me here. What is the difference between “lust” and sexual desire? I hear “lust” blamed for all manner of depravities on this forum.

But we all have sexual desire, it’s how we’re made. When does it cross from normal desire to “lust”?

We need sexual desire to reproduce!

 

[BobObob]

Incidentally, this is a question that puzzles me here. What is the difference between “lust” and sexual desire? I hear “lust” blamed for all manner of depravities on this forum.

But we all have sexual desire, it’s how we’re made. When does it cross from normal desire to “lust”?

We need sexual desire to reproduce!

Although this is a bit off topic, I want to address this because this is something that so many people don’t understand.

The Church defines lust in CCC 2351:

“Lust is disordered [cupidatis] or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.”

I inserted “cupidatis” in where “desire for” would appear in the English translation because the CCC was written in Latin and translated into English. As someone who has painfully studied Latin for 2 years in college, I know that this particular translation leads to a lot of confusion. Cupidatis is commonly translated to “cupidity”, “avarice”, or sometimes “desire” in English, and it means TO WANT something (active), not just to be attracted to something (passive).

The word cupidatis generally denotes a WILLED seeking for something. A mere tendency, or temptation, toward what is an intrinsic moral evil does not fit under this definition of sin. This is why merely having a sexual attraction to others (or sexual desire) when you aren’t married is NOT sinful. It’s how you respond to that attraction (lust or other sexual sins) that may be sinful.

Basically, lust means seeking some sort of sexual gratification aside from procreative or unitive purposes.

 

[Ponyguy]

Do nocturnal emissions/wet dreams cause us to fall into mortal sin?

“Nocturnal emission” (the proper term for the event ) is a natural event, beyond the control of the sleeping man. These ordinarily happen while the guy is an adolescent or a young adult, when the body’s testosterone and hormones are emerging and establishing their presence. The raging levels of hormones, until they naturally equilibrate, generate copious amounts of the male ejaculate. The excess amount has to go somewhere until the body can rein in control, so out it goes…

Quite often, this occurs without the sleeping man dreaming, or even becoming aware of it… (until he wakes up in the morning). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/ponyguy/yuk.gif

Hardly a sinful occasion…

 

[MikeBill]

No, it is not a sin, period. Nocturnal emissions are not necessarily a sign of lustful thinking while you were awake, as if that has affected you in your sleep. They happen and are normal. They are beyond your control. Orgasm itself is not sinful, it is always the context (reason for it, whether you were doing something you shouldn’t have, if it was on purpose, etc.) that can cause it to be sinful.

Again, and this is the Church’s response, it is not sinful. Period. End of discussion.

As someone who struggled with masturbation at one point, I can say that beyond the obvious ejaculation, self-induced orgasms and wet dreams have vastly different effects on my mind/body. The former led to an increasingly strong addiction that took nearly two years and many sleepless nights to stop (and I can’t imagine how hard it might be for someone who’s been doing it all their life. I had just started, and it had already become a genuine, seemingly natural “need”). OTOH, the latter has never affected my daily life, nor does it produce the same rush I felt (dopamine?) when masturbating.

They’re incomparable in terms of both intention and physiology.

 

[OraLabora]

A nocturnal emission is a normal physiologic event for some males and **NOT **a mortal sin as does not meet the criteria for a mortal sin, which is (1) grave matter (2) full knowledge of the sin and gravity of the act (3) commission with deliberate and complete consent. One cannot sin mortally by accident or while asleep.

Masturbation on the other hand is without question a mortal sin. Some may call it normal but in reality, one who calls it normal one really is trying to imply that it is a common activity, which no doubt it is. It is not normal, but common. One may or may not participate in such activity.

One who masturbates sins mortally b/c it fulfills all three of the criteria above and is a disordered use of the sexual faculty, which is the unity and procreation within the married state. In masturbation, neither is achieved, even within the married state. Because of the fantasy or pornography involved, it includes the “lust of the eyes” mentioned my Christ in Mt. 5:28.

Here we go again.

Apparently the Church disagrees with you:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.

Masturbation isn’t always a mortal sin. CCC 2352’s interpretation on the culpability of masturbation can be either wide or narrow, but clearly it is not correct to call masturbation “a mortal sin” or to say “one who masturbates sins mortally”.

Masturbation is grave matter (objective). Whether it is mortal or not is a subjective is a subjective judgement that a confessor arrives at based on information from the penitent.

As for wet dreams, about 20% of men never experience them. If any non-sexually active men experience discomfort from this, then I suspect that this lessens the culpability of masturbation if that is used as a means of alleviating the discomfort.

 

[Magnavox]

What if during your dream…you are dreaming you are masturbating…and during the dream you say…this is a mortal sin and i dont want to do it…but you wake up and it has incidentally happened…and then you think…**** i didn’t want to do that…its hard to control what happens in a dream…it can’t be sinful to me

 

[stringbeanduck]

What if during your dream…you are dreaming you are masturbating…and during the dream you say…this is a mortal sin and i dont want to do it…but you wake up and it has incidentally happened…and then you think…**** i didn’t want to do that…its hard to control what happens in a dream…it can’t be sinful to me

Chill out. Don’t over think it man. If happens when you are asleep you’re fine because sleep can’t occur without a person being unconscious. And if a person is not fully conscious then they can not be in mortal sin.