Non-Catholic 12 yr old refused Baptism

[cruiseladytexas]

It seems that the non-custodial parent has no parental rights regarding religion or other parental decisions.

(quote)

The non-custodial parent has no legal judgement or rights at all given by the courts. The parents were never married and have never been to court. The custodial parent has had & maintained full custody since getting pregnant, but does permit over visits with the non-custodial parent & his family, this extended family have been consistently actively pushing the child towards Buddhism.

 

[Bergon]

It would not be a good idea to baptize this child as has been suggested on this thread. If all the requirements for validity are met it will be valid. Although it may be valid it will be illicit. An illicit baptism is not the most auspicious way for a young person to become a member of the Christian community.

If the child and consenting parent can be patient for a further two years until the child is fourteen. IIRC when she’s 14 yo she’ll be able to choose for herself and won’t need parental consent.

 

[Allegra]

How about a good, old-fashioned parish hop? This sounds like a really strange situation and I wonder if there isn’t some sort of misunderstanding between poster/parent/priest/etc. I’ve known of kids going through RCIA despite an objecting parent when the parents were still legally married!

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

I’m not a canon lawyer, but this doesn’t sound right to me. The parent may want to contact the St. Joseph Foundation – stjosephcanonlaw.com/ The organization helps people with their rights under canon law.

Thank you I printed the Code of Canon Law for the mom and daughter to take back to the priest who has denied baptism to re-petition him and provide the Codes which cites that just ‘one of the parents…consent’ is needed. IF the priest still denies RCIC and Baptism, then I will encourage her to either go to the Bishop or to contact the St. Joseph Foundation.

I don’t think it’s right to parish-hop if a priest makes a bad decision.

 

[pablope]

Hi, just wondering if it’s normal for a non-Catholic 12 yr old child of a Baptized/Confirmed Catholic to be refused participation in Sunday School/RCIC & Baptism because the non-custodial parent is a non-Catholic, doesn’t want it?

Doesn’t it matter that the 12 yr old has wanted it for 7 yrs and the custodial & Catholic parent agrees?

I think the various tracts of this website can be printed in spanish…just go the home page…look for their tracts on mormons…and go from there. Hope this helps.

 

[Peter_J]

Not meaning to oversimplify, but has the mother spoken with any other parish priests in town?

Also could you clarify? When you say:

this extended family have been consistently actively pushing the child towards Buddhism.

does that include the father himself? Or is he more indifferent?

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

Not meaning to oversimplify, but has the mother spoken with any other parish priests in town?

Also could you clarify? When you say:

does that include the father himself? Or is he more indifferent?

No, there are plenty of other parishes, but mom’s not a parish-hopper. Mom’s mom & brother all attend the same parish & have for nearly 20 yrs.

It’s primarily the father’s mother. Father isn’t religious.

 

[Peter_J]

No, there are plenty of other parishes, but mom’s not a parish-hopper. Mom’s mom & brother all attend the same parish & have for nearly 20 yrs.

How long has that priest been there?

In any case, it’s a very sad situation.

 

[Allegra]

No, there are plenty of other parishes, but mom’s not a parish-hopper. Mom’s mom & brother all attend the same parish & have for nearly 20 yrs.

It’s primarily the father’s mother. Father isn’t religious.

You haven’t provided any information that indicates a good reason why the priest won’t Baptize the girl. Unless there is something you aren’t saying, I can’t think of any reason why this would be justified. I would happily find another parish before letting my child go without the Sacraments for no valid reason.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi, just wondering if it’s normal for a non-Catholic 12 yr old child of a Baptized/Confirmed Catholic to be refused participation in Sunday School/RCIC & Baptism because the non-custodial parent is a non-Catholic, doesn’t want it?

Doesn’t it matter that the 12 yr old has wanted it for 7 yrs and the custodial & Catholic parent agrees?

Both parents have to agree. The non-Catholic spouse has to be “not opposed.”

But, I have always been under the impression that this applies to children under the age of 7. I thought 12 year olds could consent on their own behalf?

This would be worth looking into. Contact your Bishop.

 

[DAML72]

I haven’t read all the responses, but this seems odd/strange to me.

I am a recent convert, and my pastor and the Religious ed instructor both know that my children’s father (we are divorced) is not at all on board with them becoming Catholic. Doesn’t seem to phase them one bit. Maybe because neither of the parents were ever Catholic?

I would ask around. I don’t know what state you are in, but in my state, a parent’s desire to instruct his or her child in a religious faith/tradition is protected by the right to freedom of religion. The other parent might object to days and times that are scheduled during his or her visitation, but other than that, there is no standing to prevent a child from receiving religious instruction. As a result, I can’t see why the Church would deny a child.

Maybe it’s a pastoral decision?

 

[DAML72]

PS- In most states, there is a difference between physical custody and legal custody. A parent may not have primary phyical custody while sharing equal legal custody, and therefore he or she can legally prevent the other parent from making changes to the child’s religion.

From research I have done on this issue (may just be limited to my state), I don’t think one parent can prevent the other from teaching his or her faith to the child, even if there was a former agreement to raise the child in a particular faith. Because of freedom of religion, parents have the right, even if they change faiths, to instruct their children freely. Now, if there is an agreement - that will still be honored, in that the parent who has changed faiths would still have to comply with bringing up the child in the agreed faith, but there is nothing that can stop him or her from also teaching a new faith.

Does that make sense? It’s late and the brain isn’t really firing so easily right now.

 

[DAML72]

Yes, the custodial Catholic parent spoke with the pastor and he told her that her daughter may not participate in Sunday School, RCIC nor be Baptized unless the non-custodial non-Catholic parent meets with him & provides consent.

Does the custodial Catholic parent realize that she can baptize the child herself? Of course, it’s probably not what she’s wanting, and it’s not ideal, but it can be done. Is there a reason she hasn’t done it before now? I would be very tempted to go shopping for a priest, monk, friar, or nun who would baptize the child.

 

[Peter_J]

Both parents have to agree. The non-Catholic spouse has to be “not opposed.”

But, I have always been under the impression that this applies to children under the age of 7. I thought 12 year olds could consent on their own behalf?

This would be worth looking into. Contact your Bishop.

And in any case, it’s to imagine how the priest could refuse not only baptism but catechism as well.

 

[Allegra]

From research I have done on this issue (may just be limited to my state), I don’t think one parent can prevent the other from teaching his or her faith to the child, even if there was a former agreement to raise the child in a particular faith. Because of freedom of religion, parents have the right, even if they change faiths, to instruct their children freely. Now, if there is an agreement - that will still be honored, in that the parent who has changed faiths would still have to comply with bringing up the child in the agreed faith, but there is nothing that can stop him or her from also teaching a new faith.

Does that make sense? It’s late and the brain isn’t really firing so easily right now.

They can’t prevent the other parent from teaching their faith, but custody arrangements are made that stipulate the child’s practicing of religion, regarding what church they will attend and what school they will attend. I do know of situations where one parent is not allowed to take their child to their church because they agreed to raise the child in another religion when they were married and it is written into their custody arrangement.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

They can’t prevent the other parent from teaching their faith, but custody arrangements are made that stipulate the child’s practicing of religion, regarding what church they will attend and what school they will attend. I do know of situations where one parent is not allowed to take their child to their church because they agreed to raise the child in another religion when they were married and it is written into their custody arrangement.

That’s so detailed. Maybe a custody court case from a divorce situation? This former couple were never married so other than child support, nothing more was ordered by Court.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Does the parent have “sole custody” or “joint custody”?

Joint legal custody means that both parents can make decisions for the child, including medical treatment, education and religion. And they need to discuss these issues with each other.

Appears to be the case.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Follow? Physical custody doesn’t indicate one or the other above “sole custody” or “joint custody” . Being the mother is the one who needs to seek resolve through the court indicates to me the father has joint custody, or it would be him who would need to petition the court.

Also the father having a say in this indicates to me he is fully aware of what right he has and doesn’t have.

Just Saying.

 

[Peter_J]

I could be wrong, but these legal-question posts don’t seem helpful to the matter at hand.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

Follow? Physical custody doesn’t indicate one or the other above “sole custody” or “joint custody” . Being the mother is the one who needs to seek resolve through the court indicates to me the father has joint custody, or it would be him who would need to petition the court.

Also the father having a say in this indicates to me he is fully aware of what right he has and doesn’t have.

Just Saying.

Hi GaryTaylor, I’ve raised a child from infancy to adulthood without the Courts specifically dictating custody, but I still have full-custody in the eyes of the law because the father was ordered to pay child support. This mother is in the same situation I was in. With one exception. I had my baby baptized as an infant and the priest/Church didn’t ask anything about the father’s wishes. This mother failed to get her daughter baptized as an infant and yrs later when her daughter was old enough to ask for baptism at about 6 or 7 yrs old, the mother went to her parish priest and asked to have her baptized. After determining that the mother is a single parent who allows the father regular visits and the father actual does regularly have those visits, the priest asked her if her father’s side of the family wanted her raised Catholic. She said she didn’t think so since they were Buddhist. The priest told her that the child couldn’t receive Baptism since the father wouldn’t give consent. Father isn’t religous. Father has no concept of how Baptism is necessary for Salvation and he doesn’t care about his daughter’s wishes in this matter. All these years, this little girl, now 12 yrs old, has wanted to be a Catholic and to get Baptized. I am sad for this child who can’t be Baptized. I am also so happy that the priest didn’t make it an issue when I went to have my daughter baptized as a single mother. All the priest wanted to know for me was if I was living in sin with the father and when I answered No there was no problem. There was a problem for another single mother in our group because she did live with the father of her children and the priest refused to baptize unless she moved away from him. They were baptized so she must have made that move.