Non Catholic Baptism

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In Scott Hahn’s conversion story “A Protestant minister becomes Catholic”, Scott mentions receiving the “grand slam”, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and the Eucharist. So does this infer that he was required to get baptized again by the CC?
 
In Scott Hahn’s conversion story “A Protestant minister becomes Catholic”, Scott mentions receiving the “grand slam”, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and the Eucharist. So does this infer that he was required to get baptized again by the CC?
I haven’t read it (I should), so it is kind of hard to state one way or the other if he was “required” to be baptized.

Since you mentioned Confession in the grand slam, I am guessing that he may have needed a conditional baptism.

Conditional baptisms are primarily done when a person claims that they have been baptized, but it can’t be confirmed or verified.

It is amazing the amount of protestant churches that will baptize an individual, but not keep any record of it. Of course there are cases where church records have been lost or destroyed for one reaon or another.
 
My (UMC) pastor is so solid on baptism. As far as he is concerned, if you are baptized validly once, that is it. No more baptizing.
On the other hand, I have friends who are Fundamentalist Baptists, who had to be baptized just in order to join their church. (Both had been validly baptized before). I have another set of friends who are not allowed to join a Baptist church they have attended for decades, because they refuse to go through with this same “if we haven’t been the ones to baptize you, you aren’t baptized” :rolleyes:nonsense…
It’s getting to the point where we need a score card for all of this stuff…😛
Yeah, really.🤷
And you should have been there the day I told a [Baptist] family member that “I have gotten as wet as I am ever going to get”. (At least he laid off on the:mad: harassment).
 
With so many different denominations out there right now, there can be, and usually is some confusion regarding baptisms.

I was baptised Catholic as an infant, but never catechized. When I was younger, I attended a Southern Baptist Church. They wanted to rebaptize me, because they didn’t recognize a Catholic baptism.

I quit going there, and started going to a Nazarene Church, and they wanted to do the same thing. A friend of mine that was going to the Nazarene Church with me was baptized at the Baptist Church I mentioned, but the Nazarene’s wouldn’t accept it, so they wanted to baptize him again also.

See where I’m going with this?

Some churches don’t think you’ve had a valid baptism until you’ve had one of theirs, so you can end up with more than one if you change churches.

As a side note, my daughter in law moved her church registration (Lutheran), due to them moving to a different location. She went from LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) to an ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America), and she had to be re-confirmed.

I still don’t understand that one.
Sounds familiar
 
And you should have been there the day I told a [Baptist] family member that “I have gotten as wet as I am ever going to get”. (At least he laid off on the:mad: harassment).

Good one!
 
In Scott Hahn’s conversion story “A Protestant minister becomes Catholic”, Scott mentions receiving the “grand slam”, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and the Eucharist. So does this infer that he was required to get baptized again by the CC?
its possible that perhaps his past denomination didn’t practice a proper Baptism and therefore he would have been needed to be baptized the right way. not all Protestant denominations would baptize the same way. i think the major ones would have valid baptism

i’m thinking here…

the Catholic Church would be aware of the practices of various Protestant sects, whether they practice the correct (and thus valid) form of Baptism or not

but what if a sect is too small and too new and the Church has no idea if proper Baptism is followed? and the person converting also doesn’t have an idea if what he received was a proper baptism or not? would the Church just go ahead with the Baptism “just in case,” or just assume that the person received valid baptism?
 
its possible that perhaps his past denomination didn’t practice a proper Baptism and therefore he would have been needed to be baptized the right way. not all Protestant denominations would baptize the same way. i think the major ones would have valid baptism

i’m thinking here…

the Catholic Church would be aware of the practices of various Protestant sects, whether they practice the correct (and thus valid) form of Baptism or not

but what if a sect is too small and too new and the Church has no idea if proper Baptism is followed? and the person converting also doesn’t have an idea if what he received was a proper baptism or not? would the Church just go ahead with the Baptism “just in case,” or just assume that the person received valid baptism?
I have encountered cases like this in the recent past.

If we don’t get very clear answers from the individual regarding what happened during their baptism at one of these churches, we will contact the church/pastor directly, to discuss their baptisms. Most all of them are willing to discuss it, and I have never really encountered a problem.

Remember, we are looking for Form, Matter, and Intent. If any of those things are missing, or might be missing, we will recommend a conditional baptism.
 
What is the purpose of multiple baptism? i.e. being baptized as a child and then again as an adult.

Doesn’t that contradict OSAS?
I was baptised as a child (one month old baby) in the Roman Catholic Church and last August I was baptised again as a non-denominational Christian, so I decided share my thoughts on this subject.

My reasons to be baptised as an adult is that after several years of bible study and personal prayer about the matter, I came to believe that my infant baptism was not biblical and therefore I don’t really consider myself baptised twice, because I do not consider my first baptism valid at all. My belief regarding baptism:
  1. First of all it should follow a full understanding and belief of the gospels. Although I don’t claim to have “full understanding”, I did much study and definately more than a 1 month old.
  2. It should be by full immersion - my infant baptism was by sprinkling
  3. It requires repentence which to me means seeking forgiveness and turning away from sins - as an infant I had no understanding or capacity for repentence.
I’d like to note that No.s 1 and 2 are common Christian requirements, whereas No. 3 is incidental. I just wanted that to be clear.

None of these features were present in my infant baptism and that is why I chose to be baptised. I was baptised by immersion in the ocean and it was wonderful. On that day I thought of Jesus and the other people being baptised in the Jordan River and realized that although the Pacific Ocean is not the Jordan River, the experience of immersion (which symbolizes death and rebirth) is far closer to Jesus’ baptism than being sprinkled upon as a baby.
 
If a Baptist was baptized and then converted to be a Catholic, does the CC recognize the Baptist baptism? Would they have to be Baptized again because the CC don’t recognize the Baptist baptism?
The Church recognizes all baptism that are done in accordance with the Apostolic (Catholic) Teaching. It must have both the proper form, and matter. Water is used, and the Trinitarian formula (“in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”).
 
In Scott Hahn’s conversion story “A Protestant minister becomes Catholic”, Scott mentions receiving the “grand slam”, Baptism, Confirmation, Confession and the Eucharist. So does this infer that he was required to get baptized again by the CC?
Sometimes if they have no documentation that they were baptized (like a certificate), then they are given a “conditional baptism”. Since there is only “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” then the form is used “if you have not already been baptized, then I baptize you…”

If the candidate is not sure their baptism was valid, they will do a conditional.
 
I was baptised as a child (one month old baby) in the Roman Catholic Church and last August I was baptised again as a non-denominational Christian, so I decided share my thoughts on this subject.

My reasons to be baptised as an adult is that after several years of bible study and personal prayer about the matter, I came to believe that my infant baptism was not biblical and therefore I don’t really consider myself baptised twice, because I do not consider my first baptism valid at all. My belief regarding baptism:
  1. First of all it should follow a full understanding and belief of the gospels. Although I don’t claim to have “full understanding”, I did much study and definately more than a 1 month old.
  2. It should be by full immersion - my infant baptism was by sprinkling
  3. It requires repentence which to me means seeking forgiveness and turning away from sins - as an infant I had no understanding or capacity for repentence.
I’d like to note that No.s 1 and 2 are common Christian requirements, whereas No. 3 is incidental. I just wanted that to be clear.

None of these features were present in my infant baptism and that is why I chose to be baptised. I was baptised by immersion in the ocean and it was wonderful. On that day I thought of Jesus and the other people being baptised in the Jordan River and realized that although the Pacific Ocean is not the Jordan River, the experience of immersion (which symbolizes death and rebirth) is far closer to Jesus’ baptism than being sprinkled upon as a baby.
It does not hurt anything for you to get wet again, and the experiential phenomenon of being joined with Chirst in his death and resurrection is always good. Unfortunately you have fallen away from the Apostolic Teaching in this matter.

Infant baptisms are not done by “sprinkling”. Sprinkling is a ritual used with adults to remind them of their baptism. Infants are either immersed or pouring is used, according to the form of the early Church noted in the Didache, one of the earliest Christian documents.
 
The Church recognizes all baptism that are done in accordance with the Apostolic (Catholic) Teaching. It must have both the proper form, and matter. Water is used, and the Trinitarian formula (“in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”).
Thats how we/I do it. Before we submerge them in water we say I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit. While they are being submerged we say baried with him and raised to a new life.
 
Thats how we/I do it. Before we submerge them in water we say I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit. While they are being submerged we say baried with him and raised to a new life.
👍

That is very Catholic of you! 😃
 
I’m not sure what you’re asking exactly.

If you’re asking what would happen in the cases of invalid baptisms (i.e. not trinitarian), then the person would need to receive a valid baptism.

As long as the baptism is done with the 3 things I explained previously, then any Catholic Church would accept it. If any, or all of those elements are missing, then the baptism is not valid, and wouldn’t be recognized

Is that what you’re asking?.
That’s correct. My husband was raised Southern Baptist, and baptised at about age 7 (or maybe it was 9? I can’t remember). When he joined the Catholic Church 3 years ago he just made a profession of faith and was confirmed (and received the Eucharist, of course!), not rebaptized.

I’ve always been kind of confused about the “intention” part of baptism. I’ve heard it explained as “intending to do what the Church does”. Well, the Church intends to wash away Original Sin and infuse sanctifiying Grace and leave an indelible mark on the person’s soul. Baptists (and most Fundamentalists and other “Believer’s Baptism” folks, I imagine), don’t intend to do that. So I really don’t understand why we (Catholics) consider it valid? Is the assumption that God does that regardless of what they (Baptists, etc.) think is happening? (or not happening, as the the case may be?). Because I know the “intention” part comes in big in situations such as the LDS: They use water and the Trinitarian forumla, but we DON’T recognize their baptisms. What’s the difference?

In Christ,

Ellen
 
That’s correct. My husband was raised Southern Baptist, and baptised at about age 7 (or maybe it was 9? I can’t remember). When he joined the Catholic Church 3 years ago he just made a profession of faith and was confirmed (and received the Eucharist, of course!), not rebaptized.

I’ve always been kind of confused about the “intention” part of baptism. I’ve heard it explained as “intending to do what the Church does”. Well, the Church intends to wash away Original Sin and infuse sanctifiying Grace and leave an indelible mark on the person’s soul. Baptists (and most Fundamentalists and other “Believer’s Baptism” folks, I imagine), don’t intend to do that. So I really don’t understand why we (Catholics) consider it valid? Is the assumption that God does that regardless of what they (Baptists, etc.) think is happening? (or not happening, as the the case may be?). Because I know the “intention” part comes in big in situations such as the LDS: They use water and the Trinitarian forumla, but we DON’T recognize their baptisms. What’s the difference?

In Christ,

Ellen
The biggest difference between LDS baptisms, and those of any Christian religion is their view of Who/what the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are is completely different. They believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 different personages, and that God the Father was at one time a man with flesh and bones.

As far as “intent” in protestant baptisms, intent is kind of a hard thing to describe. Essentially it is wanting to do what God wants. While a Baptist or Fundamentalists “intent” may seem different, they are actually the same. They are wanting to provide an outward sign of a change withing. In other words, by them baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are saying that this person has repented according to their definition of it, and the baptism is an outward, visible sign of it.

At least that is the way I understand it.
 
That’s correct. My husband was raised Southern Baptist, and baptised at about age 7 (or maybe it was 9? I can’t remember). When he joined the Catholic Church 3 years ago he just made a profession of faith and was confirmed (and received the Eucharist, of course!), not rebaptized.

I’ve always been kind of confused about the “intention” part of baptism. I’ve heard it explained as “intending to do what the Church does”. Well, the Church intends to wash away Original Sin and infuse sanctifiying Grace and leave an indelible mark on the person’s soul. Baptists (and most Fundamentalists and other “Believer’s Baptism” folks, I imagine), don’t intend to do that. So I really don’t understand why we (Catholics) consider it valid? Is the assumption that God does that regardless of what they (Baptists, etc.) think is happening? (or not happening, as the the case may be?). Because I know the “intention” part comes in big in situations such as the LDS: They use water and the Trinitarian forumla, but we DON’T recognize their baptisms. What’s the difference?

In Christ,

Ellen
This is a good point. Most of our separated brethren suffer from a deficient understanding of baptism. However, they do “intend” that the person be joined to Christ in His death and resurrection, and that they become members of Him. Although they think it is just an empty form, they still practice it out of obedience to Christ, because He commands it. They see it as a public declaration of faith, which it can be, as well as all the other things the Apostles believed and taught. In any case, it is Jesus who is the baptizer, working through the water.

The LDS do not believe in the Trinity, that is why their baptism is not considered valid. They don’t believe that Jesus and the Father are One.
 
I have a relative that says he’s been baptized four times. I don’t know the denominations, but I’m guessing they’re mostly Baptist (since he identifies himself as such). Perhaps this is a faulty assumption on my part, but I’ve been assuming the reason was that it ‘didn’t take’ the first time and that this was the time he was really really saved. Probably what it was is just going to multiple Baptist churches and joining again. hehe.

In this case, there’s also the belief that baptism isn’t really a prerequisite for salvation. If it’s just an optional good work that honor the Lord’s will on this matter, why not do it one, two, or seventy three times?
 
I have a relative that says he’s been baptized four times. I don’t know the denominations, but I’m guessing they’re mostly Baptist (since he identifies himself as such). Perhaps this is a faulty assumption on my part, but I’ve been assuming the reason was that it ‘didn’t take’ the first time and that this was the time he was really really saved. Probably what it was is just going to multiple Baptist churches and joining again. hehe.

In this case, there’s also the belief that baptism isn’t really a prerequisite for salvation. If it’s just an optional good work that honor the Lord’s will on this matter, why not do it one, two, or seventy three times?
The Baptists have retained one important element of the Apostolic Teaching on Baptism. That is that when one is Baptized, they are baptized INTO something, or someone. It has become distorted, in that baptism is to bring us into Christ, but they see it as bringing people into conformity with the local ecclesial community.
 
What is the purpose of multiple baptism? i.e. being baptized as a child and then again as an adult.

Doesn’t that contradict OSAS?
I was only baptized once, at age 21. That was when I returned to the faith. I had become a believer at 12 (or thereabouts – I’m terrible with dates) but wasn’t baptized at that time. All during my teen years I wandered away, and explored all possible spiritual paths and secular philosophies. At 18 I was an agnostic, and at 19 a Zen/Taoist. At 21, with a little help from C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien and friends, I had decided the Gospel story was in fact true and became a Christian again, and still am, 34 years later. I joined a home church, led by a young and very Christ-like pastor, and was baptized in a pond in a city park in Florida. Looking back, that was one of the happiest times in my life. 👍

Btw, only a minority of Protestants (mostly Baptists) believe in OSAS.
 
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