Non-Catholic Christianity and the understanding of Church

[Contarini]

Your calling me ignornat in current ecumenical movements is incorrect. I was not talking about ecumenical movements though. I was speaking of a Protestant denomination trying to prove its own veracity by utilizing the context of Church history

Fair enough–I was thinking of more constructive attempts. There have indeed been a number of denominational attempts to prove that they have a valid connection to the historic Church. In fact, I don’t know of any major traditional Protestant denomination in which such attempts are not still ongoing. I don’t think much of them, because I don’t think denominations per se are very important, and I don’t think “proving one’s veracity” is a particularly Christian enterprise.

I am not sure what you point about people leaving the Catholic Church has anything to do with this particular thread.

It was your point in post #7.

Edwin

 

[Bwsherman]

Fair enough–I was thinking of more constructive attempts. There have indeed been a number of denominational attempts to prove that they have a valid connection to the historic Church. In fact, I don’t know of any major traditional Protestant denomination in which such attempts are not still ongoing. I don’t think much of them, because I don’t think denominations per se are very important, and I don’t think “proving one’s veracity” is a particularly Christian enterprise.

I think the belief that what is proclaimed in the Church is truth is the only worthwhile reason for belonging to the Church in the first place. That pursuit of truth takes a person beyond themselves and takes out the “me first” approach to worship.

It was your point in post #7.

Edwin

I can see where you got that from now. I don’t have time to go into detail but I will come back on later and try and clarify. God bless…

 

[Steadfast]

Does the impossibility to determine truth due to the fallibility of human beings include or exclude your post here?

Well, that’s not really what I said but what I did say would certainly apply to anything I would write or say.

 

[Peter_J]

And this is where the argument for infallibility largely breaks down in apologetic discussions. The criticism of the Protestant position on our infallible rule of faith (the Scriptures) is that one must use one’s own fallible human reasoning, understanding, and interpretation in order to believe what the Scriptures teach. Yet, the unspoken fallacy is that Catholics do not have to use their fallible human reasoning, understanding, and interpretation of the Bible, in order to conclude that Rome is really the infallible church founded by Christ.

Ultimately, we’re both in the same position, Catholics just move it back one step.

TU, I think you’re getting too smart for your own good. (insert mob / cement-shoes emoticon)

 

[Peter_J]

And Catholics routinely quote this as if it proves something. I would respond that to be steeped in history is to cease to be a naive and triumphalistic Protestant *or *Catholic. I do not see a lot of signs of being steeped in history among the Catholics on this forum. Just a lot of slinging around of tired cliches.

Edwin

Sadly, that is very often the case.

 

[Peter_J]

So say you. Of course, the ELCA is the largest Lutheran body in this country. So the fact that you, a member of a smaller group, call it “non-Lutheran” may not be very convincing to anyone outside your immediate confessional context. (I’m not claiming that size is everything. I certainly wouldn’t listen if the ELCA were to call you a non-Lutheran either. But it is something.)

Edwin

I think you’re quite right. Numbers aren’t everything, but they can’t just be ignored either.

 

[Peter_J]

For the ELCA, which is functionally non-Lutheran.

BTW, do you also see the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) as functionally non-Lutheran?

 

[TriuneUnity]

BTW, do you also see the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) as functionally non-Lutheran?

Yes; actually, disfunctionally non-Lutheran may be a more appropo term

Though the Lutheran Church of Australia is a confessional body that is a member of both the LWF and the ICLC (which is the body the LCMS belongs to).

 

[Peter_J]

Yes; actually, disfunctionally non-Lutheran may be a more appropo term

Why I oughta …

freesmileys.org/smileys/merv/stooges.gif

Though the Lutheran Church of Australia is a confessional body that is a member of both the LWF and the ICLC (which is the body the LCMS belongs to).

Interesting.

I think I’ve previously heard mention of some conservative member churches in the LWF, but this is the first time I’ve heard that the Lutheran Church of Australia belongs to both the LWF and the ICLC.