Non Catholic Christians: Left behind anyone?

[traillius]

How many non catholic christians believe in the rapture and the great tribulation, a la 'left behind ’ by laHaye and Jenkins, including that weak freaky dude Carpathia, who is made out to be some tough guy. Please, if you believe that stuff, can you give a bible verse, outside of the book of revelation, to support it.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

Not that I believe in it, mind…
newsletters.cephasministry.com/rapture_matthew24.html

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A15-17&version=NIV

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A29-31&version=NASB

scriptures.lds.org/2_thes/2/13

When my son was little, I had to leave him with a babysitter who was willing to watch kids at night. I had a wonderful babysitter, she treated my son as part of the family. They were fundies to the nth degree and believed in the rapture, hook, line and sinker. My son even has a shirt they gave him (it was signed by a Christian band) that says ‘in case of rapture, you can have this tee shirt’ -kind of silly, but I kept it for him. We actually had it framed in his room for a bit when he was little…it was nice of the family to make the effort to get the tee for him;0D
I read one of those rapture books at their urging…ouch, the writing was painful to read…but they meant well. I still keep in touch with the family. Granted, I may not have the same beliefs as they, but they practice what they preach, they are true to their faith, and for that I admire them.

 

[JonNC]

How many non catholic christians believe in the rapture and the great tribulation, a la 'left behind ’ by laHaye and Jenkins, including that weak freaky dude Carpathia, who is made out to be some tough guy. Please, if you believe that stuff, can you give a bible verse, outside of the book of revelation, to support it.

Lutherans do not. As for the rest of your OP, how do you expect to get a civil dialogue with terms “like weak freaky dude”, and “if you believe that stuff”?

Jon

 

[Cat]

Lutherans do not. As for the rest of your OP, how do you expect to get a civil dialogue with terms “like weak freaky dude”, and “if you believe that stuff”?

Jon

Thank you , JOnNC.

There are a lot of brilliant, well-educated, and saintly Protestant teachers who “believe in that stuff.” One example is Dr. James Dobson. Another example is Mr. Charles Colson. A third example is the Rev. Dr. Billy Graham.

OP, show some respect if you expect to get a meaningful dialogue. These men have done a great deal to advance the kingdom of God, and they have NOT harmed the Catholic Church in the process. Chuck Colson in particular has done a great deal to “normalize” the Catholic Church for his fellow Protestants.

Yes, I’ve converted to Catholicism and I have rejected many of the teachings of my younger days, including the teachings about the Last Days. But I will NOT stand by and see the men and women who raised me to believe in Jesus denigrated and maligned and made fun of. Many of those “weak freaky dudes” have given their life for Jesus on the mission field–when YOU die for the Lord like they have, then you will have the right to call them names and make fun of their beliefs.

In answer to your question:

I Corinthians 15: 51-55.
Matthew 24: 36-42
I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

etc. etc. There are many verses in the New Testament which, when taken in a non-historical context, could be interpreted the way Darby interpreted them, namely, that a “rapture” of the Church will occur.

Also keep in mind that throughout the Old Testament, whenever God carried out a “judgement” on the earth, He always preserved the faithful and took them OUT of harm’s way (e.g., Noah, Lot, Mary, etc.) It makes logical sense that the Lord would not allow His Bride, the Church, to pass through the Great Tribulation, so why make fun of those who come to this logical conclusion?

 

[Izdaari]

No, I don’t believe in the scenario LaHaye and Jenkins painted in that series. But I did enjoy reading it. I think it’s a pretty good exploration of the “what ifs” if it were true.

 

[JHow]

I think the “weak freaky dude Carpathia” was a character in the Left Behind story, not a dispensationalist. I think the OP’s sentence rambles and the reference is unclear, but I don’t think he/she was referring to protestants who believe in the rapture as “freaky dudes”.

I read Left Behind some time ago. As a novel, it was good, but not great, I was not motiviated to read any more of the series.

I always wondered, however, why the bad guy was named “Carpathia”. What is so sinister about the Carpathian mountains? JP II was born in Wadowice, near the Karpaty. He also liked to go skiiing at Zakopane. Maybe Lahaye and Jenkins were thinking about Transylvania - those other scary literary mountains.

 

[traillius]

I wasn’t calling believers weak or freaky. And the stuff I refer to is what I don’t share in belief.
as far as nicolae being supposedly scary, the real antichrist will make the carpathia type of character look like a child playing make believe by comparison. And whatever happens during the time the real antichrist has power will make the tribulation as described in those books like a kindergarten recess brawl. If this series of books is their version of the end times then they infinitely underestimate satan and his future progeny.

 

[elvisman]

Not that I believe in it, mind…
newsletters.cephasministry.com/rapture_matthew24.html

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+4%3A15-17&version=NIV

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24%3A29-31&version=NASB

scriptures.lds.org/2_thes/2/13

When my son was little, I had to leave him with a babysitter who was willing to watch kids at night. I had a wonderful babysitter, she treated my son as part of the family. They were fundies to the nth degree and believed in the rapture, hook, line and sinker. My son even has a shirt they gave him (it was signed by a Christian band) that says ‘in case of rapture, you can have this tee shirt’ -kind of silly, but I kept it for him. We actually had it framed in his room for a bit when he was little…it was nice of the family to make the effort to get the tee for him;0D
I read one of those rapture books at their urging…ouch, the writing was painful to read…but they meant well. I still keep in touch with the family. Granted, I may not have the same beliefs as they, but they practice what they preach, they are true to their faith, and for that I admire them.

The problem with the Biblical verses people like to throw at the possibility of a pre-Trib “rapture” is that the whole idea is patently unbiblical. They are based more in a misunderstanding of Scripture as well as some pretty bizarre eisegetical statements.

We wait in hope joy for the coming of our Lord. We’ve been waiting for 2000 plus years. Never in the history of the Church is there any mention of a 2nd Coming, followed by a third and/or fourth. The return of the Jesus and our subsequent meeting with him in the clouds happends AT the end of the world - not before. You really have to do some fancy Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at the dispensationalist view. This is why the Creed says that he will come to judge the living and the dead. It doesn’t say he will come to judge them multiple times - ummmm, AFTER the 2nd and 3rd coming.

By the way - terms like “fundie” and the like are not considered charitable on this forum.

 

[phoenixrrt62]

The problem with the Biblical verses people like to throw at the possibility of a pre-Trib “rapture” is that the whole idea is patently unbiblical.

**We wait in hope joy for the coming of our Lord. We’ve been waiting for 2000 plus years. Never **in the history of the Church is there any mention of a 2nd Coming, followed by a third and/or fourth. The return of the Jesus and our subsequent meeting with him in the clouds happends AT the end of the world - not before. You really have to do some fancy Scriptural acrobatics to arrive at the dispensationalist view. This is why the Creed says that he will come to judge the living and the dead. It doesn’t say he will come to judge them multiple times - ummmm, AFTER the 2nd and 3rd coming.

By the way - terms like "fundie" and the like are not considered charitable on this forum.

As to the links…just stuff I was trying to recall-that they believe? So I take it I’m way off the mark?

-and as to the reference…I wasn’t aware…I’m really sorry about that, also. I can’t go back and remove it, can I? I suppose the mods can delete the post? Any idea?-I wasn’t trying to be mean or anything, however, I can see how people would be offended…sorry!!!

 

[elvisman]

As to the links…just stuff I was trying to recall-that they believe? So I take it I’m way off the mark?

-and as to the reference…I wasn’t aware…I’m really sorry about that, also. I can’t go back and remove it, can I? I suppose the mods can delete the post? Any idea?-I wasn’t trying to be mean or anything, however, I can see how people would be offended…sorry!!!

I wouldn’t say you’re way off the mark because you don’t believe in it anyway. The links and verses you provided are usually the ones people use to try to prove this false teaching of a 2nd and 3rd coming of Christ. His return will happen only once.

**As for the uncharitable remarks - I’ve been busted for a LOT less than that. You don’t sound like you were trying to be mean - just be careful . . .

 

[traillius]

the worst part of the books for me is how dissimilar nicolae carpathia’s depiction is to what I fear to imagine what the real anti-christ will be like. Its like trying to tell the story of the titanic by showing a toy boat being struck by ice cubes in a bathtub.

 

[pablope]

How many non catholic christians believe in the rapture and the great tribulation, a la 'left behind ’ by laHaye and Jenkins,** including that weak freaky dude Carpathia**, who is made out to be some tough guy. Please, if you believe that stuff, can you give a bible verse, outside of the book of revelation, to support it.

including that weak freaky dude Carpathia

I read the books…i thought it was an adequate dramantization (of the author’s belief) of the events of the end times…

Carpathia is the name of the Anti-Christ in the series…is this who you are referring to as weak freaky dude…

 

[traillius]

yes, I referred to carpathia as weak and freaky. By comparison, the life, actions, and times of the real antichrist will make carpathia’s nonsense look like babies playing with toys.

 

[Holly3278]

Jesus said He would come again, not that He’d come again twice or more! That’s what I don’t get about the Evangelical Protestant doctrine of the “rapture”. Yes, there are verses in the Bible which when twisted out of context can be used to “support” such a heresy but the “rapture” heresy is simply not true. I used to believe in it but no longer.

catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

 

[JustaServant]

No, I don’t believe in the scenario LaHaye and Jenkins painted in that series. But I did enjoy reading it. I think it’s a pretty good exploration of the “what ifs” if it were true.

Hi Iz.
Someone asked me once years ago (on that OTHER forum) about the ‘Left Behind’ books. I told them its great science fiction (although I prefer Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars series), but even from a dispensationalist/evangelical POV, its pretty bad.
Oh and the movie? Wow, turning the book of Revelation into a ‘B’ movie borders on blasphemy.
Kirk Cameron is a lousy actor anyway.

 

[traillius]

Hi Iz.
Someone asked me once years ago (on that OTHER forum) about the ‘Left Behind’ books. I told them its great science fiction (although I prefer Edgar Rice Burroughs Mars series), but even from a dispensationalist/evangelical POV, its pretty bad.
Oh and the movie? Wow, turning the book of Revelation into a ‘B’ movie borders on blasphemy.
Kirk Cameron is a lousy actor anyway.

Interesting. One question, what is “that OTHER forum ?”

 

[SteveVH]

I wasn’t calling believers weak or freaky. And the stuff I refer to is what I don’t share in belief.
as far as nicolae being supposedly scary, the real antichrist will make the carpathia type of character look like a child playing make believe by comparison. And whatever happens during the time the real antichrist has power will make the tribulation as described in those books like a kindergarten recess brawl. If this series of books is their version of the end times then they infinitely underestimate satan and his future progeny.

I think the anti-Christ will be so subtle that most will hardly know he exists until it’s too late. He will quietly devour those unsuspecting souls.

 

[JustaServant]

Interesting. One question, what is “that OTHER forum ?”

Lets just say it makes CARM look like a monastic chapel.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

How many non catholic christians believe in the rapture and the great tribulation, a la 'left behind ’ by laHaye and Jenkins, including that weak freaky dude Carpathia, who is made out to be some tough guy. Please, if you believe that stuff, can you give a bible verse, outside of the book of revelation, to support it.

If any man, woman or child who has driven in LA, then they believe in car rapture. It’s a rare rush hour phenomenon that there will be curb to curb cars moving at only 5 miles an hour, when all of a sudden with no off ramp in site, a goodly portion of the cars just seem to disappear and traffic is again speeding along at 50 miles an hour. Car rapture is the only explanation!