Non-Catholic Christians: What bias did you have about the Catholic Church, and...

[Abira]

I suppose that because we cannot know what God looks like we cannot visually represent Him.

Then when I saw icons of Saints…easier because we can visually represent them… I feel that this ditracts attention that should be on God. I think this is emphasised in protestantism because there is no thought t the communion of saints, and when praying, I have only ever heard prayers to the trinity. I think that because protestants do not see the dead as part of their communion when praying, they do not see the need for so many icons and relics… It almost feels superstituous, especially if they’re blessed…kinda like a good luck charm.

I am generalising a lot, and these aren’t all my views…but I think it’s why there is a difference of opinion.

S

 

[Jennifer_G]

I would add that many Protestants use the “pervert priest” scandal as an objection to the Catholic Church. They’re protest is “Why did the Church condone this and not remove these priests from service?”

That, and statues, indulgences (some are still stuck on the fact that “The church requires that you pay for indulgences to ‘save souls in purgatory’/pay for a mass to be said for you/say a series of prayers (novena) to have a prayer answered”, and that Catholics “are obsessed with saving souls”, plus, “they believe you need all seven sacraments to get to Heaven” (I’ve heard that one a few times). Those are just a few others that I’ve heard.

I also have a hard time with sola fide or faith alone… as I think sometimes people downplay their works and instead focs only on internal belief.

Same here. My mom thinks it’s only enough that Jesus knows you love him by believing in Him. But, then again, that almost implies a free ticket to Heaven in the sense that you can sin as much as you want, and still get there just because you believe. There’s even a parable in the Bible against Sola Fide (where Jesus says, “I know you not” and “whatever you have done to the lease of these, you have also done unto Me” - I forget the verse, but it was about those who do good works).

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi Mannyfit,

I’'ve been brought up protestant and I don’t believe in sola scriptura as it’s contradicted in scripture itself.

I also have a hard time with sola fide or faith alone… as I think sometimes people downplay their works and instead focs only on internal belief.

I’d like to know if modern protestants still believe in the five solas, I don’t think many protestants I’ve met are aware of them because they are not relevent in every day services etc.

and to the grandparents thing: I think my whole family on both my mother and fathers side are secular…except for my parents.

S

Scripture doesn’t contradict itself but the Scripture Alone as the sole authority is not preach or taught by the Bible. In Peter’s epistles, he wrote that there are many things difficult to understand in Paul’s writings that can be twisted. The only one who can intepret Scripture is the Church because it was the Church who formed the Bible.

The Scripture has authority because the Church said it has authority…

 

[Abira]

Scripture doesn’t contradict itself but the Scripture Alone as the sole authority is not preach or taught by the Bible.

Hi, yeah that was badly worded. I meant that after being brought up to see the Bible as being the only source of ‘truth’, it was odd to find things in scripture with contradict this idea, not that the Bible contradicts itself (that’s another thread right lol).

My point is that the emphasis placed on the Bible alone is the reason that I found the Bible does not support this idea. The Bible does not support sola scriptura, it’s strange to see that as a protestant. I’m not quite sure how to broach it lol.

Take care, S

 

[lak611]

“they believe you need all seven sacraments to get to Heaven” (I’ve heard that one a few times).

Actually the majority of Catholics are not able to receive all 7. Women can’t be ordained, and at least in the Latin Rite Church only deacons could receive both marriage and ordination. Then there are also a lot of single people, male and female, so marriage is not necessary to go to heaven either.

 

[Abira]

Actually I’ve heard something a few times (not my view now but one I held for a long time)

Catholics do not value the meaning of the crucifixion. They do not understand the value of the forgiveness of our sins because they try to ‘earn’ their way with their own actions.

Jesus made the way clear for us and we only need faith, Catholics have misunderstood this.

---

Again, not my view I’m paraphrasing years of upbringing lol. This view is especially held in relation to Opus Dei who many believe hurt themselves as a sacrifice for their sins…they would say Jesus is the only necessary sacrifice.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi, yeah that was badly worded. I meant that after being brought up to see the Bible as being the only source of ‘truth’, it was odd to find things in scripture with contradict this idea, not that the Bible contradicts itself (that’s another thread right lol).

My point is that the emphasis placed on the Bible alone is the reason that I found the Bible does not support this idea. The Bible does not support sola scriptura, it’s strange to see that as a protestant. I’m not quite sure how to broach it lol.

Take care, S

It is another thread of discussion. The problem I have with the Sola Scriptura is the word Sola, or Alone… It’s always Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition in the Protestantism. In Catholicism, its more balance. It’s both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition as the Word of God…

Note I did not put Protestants. I just use Protestantism.

Other than that, I appreciate your insight on your desire to learn more about what we Catholic believe.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually I’ve heard something a few times (not my view now but one I held for a long time)

Catholics do not value the meaning of the crucifixion. They do not understand the value of the forgiveness of our sins because they try to ‘earn’ their way with their own actions.

Jesus made the way clear for us and we only need faith, Catholics have misunderstood this.

---

Again, not my view I’m paraphrasing years of upbringing lol. This view is especially held in relation to Opus Dei who many believe hurt themselves as a sacrifice for their sins…they would say Jesus is the only necessary sacrifice.

I think you misunderstand us Catholics. We do value the crucifixion. We have the crucifix at Church if we do not value the mission. We even have the cross on all our rosaries, and it also mark in the Liturgical Book used at Mass.

The Catechism mentions a lot that Catholics must bear our crosses. That we must suffer just as Christ suffer.

Catholics also value forgiveness of sins. That is why we have the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

We are not taught to earn our way. We are taught to live by the faith. How does we should our faith? Like Abraham. He show his faith to God by offer his son son for sacrifice. Likewise, Catholics must not rely on faith alone for faith without works is dead (and vice versa).

It is the grace of God that we merit our salvation. On judgement day we are not judge by faith, but by our deeds. How will you answer to Jesus when he ask you, “Where were you when I was naked, hungry, thirsty?”

Do you think Jesus will judge by your faith only? Be realistic.

 

[RNRobert]

We are not taught to earn our way. We are taught to live by the faith. How does we should our faith? Like Abraham. He show his faith to God by offer his son son for sacrifice. Likewise, Catholics must not rely on faith alone for faith without works is dead (and vice versa).

It is the grace of God that we merit our salvation. On judgement day we are not judge by faith, but by our deeds. How will you answer to Jesus when he ask you, “Where were you when I was naked, hungry, thirsty?”

Do you think Jesus will judge by your faith only? Be realistic.

This was one of the problems I had as a Protestant… I was told that all I needed for salvation was to “believe in Jesus.” Yet, when I read my Bible, I saw how Jesus told his listeners that not all who say Lord, Lord, will inherit the kingdom of heaven, and how salvation or damnation is based on what one does or fails to do. I eventually saw the Catholic position to be the Biblical one: faith and works.

 

[Auriel]

I will not say a Bias, but I never understood why Catholics confessed to a priest. What I do remember from church as a kid is that Jesus was supposed to be our mediator, not a priest or minister.

1. The Pope. No Prob.
2. Mary. No Prob.
3. Eucharist. Never understood that by any name, (Protestants have communion) Creeped me out as a kid.
4. Mass Not sure, isn’t that just a service, like a sermon?
5. Purgatory. Not sure, there are too many differant names for hell for me to get a clear grasp. Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, etc…
6. Communion of Saints. No Prob, I think it says somewhere in Bible that they watch us.
7. Difference between doctrines and disciplines. Not sure.
8. Difference between Sacraments and Sacramentals Not sure, do not know what that means.

Never heard of Sola Scriptura in my life. As far as Faith and works I kind of get it. Can’t do what you want and think you are always home free. IMO people of all faiths sometimes buy “Fire Insurance” and may not be so serious. Icons, never had a problem with them. Sometimes I laugh when people freak on it only because I remember the verse they get it from, but if they twist that it means you cannot have pictures of owls, or many other aimals that were sacred and worshipped back then. I never saw it as worship.

 

[RNRobert]

I will not say a Bias, but I never understood why Catholics confessed to a priest. What I do remember from church as a kid is that Jesus was supposed to be our mediator, not a priest or minister.

James tells us in 5:16 of his epistle to “confess your sins to one another.” In the early days of the church, confession was to the entire church, not just the priest. Jesus also told the disciples in John 20:23 that “whose sins you forgive are forgiven, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

1. Eucharist. Never understood that by any name, (Protestants have communion) Creeped me out as a kid.

Eucharist is Greek for thanksgiving, and I believe the first example of it is in Justin Martyr’s writing in the 2nd century.

1. Mass Not sure, isn’t that just a service, like a sermon?

The Orthodox refer to the Mass as the “Divine Liturgy,” Liturgy being Greek for ‘public service.’ It consists of two parts: Liturgy of the Word, which consists of Bible readings and a brief homily, and Liturgy of the Eucharist, where we celebrate the Lord’s Supper.

1. Purgatory. Not sure, there are too many differant names for hell for me to get a clear grasp. Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, etc…

Purgatory is not the same as Hell. It is not a third state between Heaven and Hell, nor is it a second chance for those who rejected God or a safety net for backsliding Christians. The best way to describe it would be the vestibule of Heaven. The book of Revelation says that nothing unclean will enter Heaven. Jesus died for our sins and enabled us to enter Heaven, but we have to cooperate with that grace. We are to *become *Holy, not snow covered dunghills that has their sins merely covered. However, not all who are going to heaven are completely holy at the end of their lives. Purgatory is where the remaining dross is burned away.

1. Difference between doctrines and disciplines. Not sure.

Doctrines don’t change, like the Papacy, the Sacraments, etc. Dsciplines do, like receiving the Host and Cup in communion versus receiving just the Host.

1. Difference between Sacraments and Sacramentals Not sure, do not know what that means.

The Church has Seven Sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Marriage, Holy Orders, Confession and Anointing of the sick. They are channels of Grace. Sacramentals are physical things, like water, oil, candles, etc. that are used in worship or devotionals (crucifixes, rosaries, etc.).

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[sandmountainsli]

The “bias” if you wish to call it that which I hold is praying to the dead saints.
I have no problem confessing to your priest and I occasionally take my problems to my minister and ask for his prayers.
I just prefer Congregational Methodism as it is a more “down home” church, unlike Catholics and even United Methodists there are no high ranking bishops to be concerned with, all church business and worship is on a local level. If a pastor commits a blashpemy or teaches heresy the congregatin can remove him by bringing him up on charges, it doesn’t matter who he knows or who he is related to (Unlike the Baptist Church or so I hear).
WP

 

[Abira]

I think you misunderstand us Catholics…

Do you think Jesus will judge by your faith only? Be realistic.

Ouch mannyfit lol… I said twice that it was not my personal view… but I was answering the thread using ideas that I’ve struggled with in the past and tried hard to learn about:

---------------------------past post----------------------------------------------
Actually I’ve heard something a few times (not my view now but one I held for a long time)…
…Again, not my view I’m paraphrasing years of upbringing lol. This view is especially held in relation to Opus Dei who many believe hurt themselves as a sacrifice for their sins…they would say Jesus is the only necessary sacrifice.

 

[RNRobert]

The “bias” if you wish to call it that which I hold is praying to the dead saints.

Oh, but the saint are not dead.

'I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Matthew 22:32

"When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. They cried out in a loud voice, “How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgement and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” Revelation 6:9-10.
The saints in heaven are not only alive but aware of things happening on earth.

 

[sandmountainsli]

One of the main reasons I have for never joining the Catholic Church is that I would be forever banished from the Huguenot Society of America if I did so.
The Catholics forced my ancestors to eat rats at La Rochelle That sorta grates on me still.
WP

 

[RNRobert]

One of the main reasons I have for never joining the Catholic Church is that I would be forever banished from the Huguenot Society of America if I did so.
The Catholics forced my ancestors to eat rats at La Rochelle That sorta grates on me still.
WP

That’s not logical. That would be like a Jew refusing to listen to the claims of Christ because their ancestors had been persecuted by Christians.
The Church is a not a hotel for saints, it’s a hospital for sinners, and some are going to do things not in accord with what the Church teaches.
Yes, some Catholics did horrible things to Protestants centuries ago, but some Protestants also did horrible things to Catholics. Why condemn an organization for something some of its members did a long time ago?
Also, you said you preferred your denomination as it was a more ‘down home church.’ Personally, looking for a church is not the same as shopping for a car. I never considered joining a church based on it’s organization, hierarchy, etc, singing, etc). I wanted to belong to the Church that Jesus himself founded.

 

[charlye]

To the Non-Catholic Christians,

I know some of you may have early bias against the Catholic teachings in beliefs. Now that you have discuss your concerns to us in these forums, do you still hold those stereo-typical bias against Catholic belief and practices, or are you now a well informed Non-Catholic Christians regarding the Catholic Church’s belief and practices?

These are list which Many Non-Catholic Christians have biases on;

1. The Pope.
2. Mary.
3. Eucharist.
4. Mass
5. Purgatory.
6. Communion of Saints.
7. Difference between doctrines and disciplines.
8. Difference between Sacraments and Sacramentals.

If I left out anything, fellow Catholics, please add.

So what do you think in your own words, what we Catholics truly believe.

If you are new to the forum, are you willing to know the Truths of the Catholic Church from Catholic source rather than Anti-Catholic sources?

Although I am new here, Mannyfit75, I can guarantee you that I know as much about catholic church teaching as you do. I was a RC for thirty years. I got it straight from the source. Came thisclose to being a nun.

And as far as any catholic doctrine or dogma, if they cannot be substantiated by holy Scripture, then they are of no importance to my salvation. Intolerance? Maybe so, but I must be true to the word of God and His Holy Spirit’s guidance.

Charlye

 

[RNRobert]

Although I am new here, Mannyfit75, I can guarantee you that I know as much about catholic church teaching as you do. I was a RC for thirty years. I got it straight from the source. Came thisclose to being a nun.

And as far as any catholic doctrine or dogma, if they cannot be substantiated by holy Scripture, then they are of no importance to my salvation. Intolerance? Maybe so, but I must be true to the word of God and His Holy Spirit’s guidance.

Charlye

I respectfully disagree. When I first became a Christian, I imbibed Fundamentalist propaganda that Catholic teachings were unbiblical. However I had problems with Protestant doctrine (faith alone being a big one) and as I studied, I found it was Catholic teachings that were in sync with Scripture rather than Protestant. I’ve been on this forums for three years and I’ve seen all the things Manny mentions defended using Scripture. In the end, many reject Catholic doctrine not because it is unbiblical, because it doesn’t fit “their intepretation” of Scripture.

 

[charlye]

When I I’ve been on this forums for three years and I’ve seen all the things Manny mentions defended using Scripture. In the end, many reject Catholic doctrine not because it is unbiblical, because it doesn’t fit “their intepretation” of Scripture.

Could you, then, please tell me where in Scripture I can find the Immaculate Conception of Mary or her assumption into Heaven?

Charlye

 

[Mannyfit75]

Although I am new here, Mannyfit75, I can guarantee you that I know as much about catholic church teaching as you do. I was a RC for thirty years. I got it straight from the source. Came thisclose to being a nun.

And as far as any catholic doctrine or dogma, if they cannot be substantiated by holy Scripture, then they are of no importance to my salvation. Intolerance? Maybe so, but I must be true to the word of God and His Holy Spirit’s guidance.

Charlye

Many X-Catholics assumed they know Catholic teachings but they don’t. I don’t care if you been a Catholic 30 yrs, and I tell you claim to know what we believe then why leave?

A Catholic who knows his or her faith to be the One Church of Christ would not leave. 1 Tim 3:15 states, “The Pillar and Bulwark of Truth is the Church.”

The Church was Catholic before 1517 Protestantism, it was Catholic before 1054, and it was Catholic at the time of Pentecost.

To deny the Church, would be rejected Jesus. Many Ex-Catholics misunderstand and take any of our belief out of context. I don’t believe you or any Ex-Catholics here (yes there are ex-Catholics here) are reliable to seek what we believe. You left the Church of Christ period.

Second, Bible Alone and Faith Alone is unscriptural and no where supported by the early Church. It is not seen in the historical Christian Church.

Because of the Bible Alone doctrine, we seek over thousands of Protestant churches professing different doctrines. They claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit. One Church claims, infant baptism is necessary, another church say no. Another Protestant church claim symbolism in the Eucharist, another believe in real presence.

It seems that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Confusion in Protestantism. The Catholic Church holds One faith, One unified doctrines in perfect union with the teachings of Christ.

Any Catholic can go to any Catholic Church and the Mass is the same. It doesn’t matter what language you speak. It is the same. There is also a Real Presence of Jesus in the Church, the Blessed Sacrament. To identify the True Church of God, it must be Apostolic, Teach One doctrine no different that what it received from the Apostles and their successors.

Many Protestants, a Non-Denominational Christian will say, I have the Holy Spirit in me. I say great! I hear that in a Baptist say it too. Yet they teach different. Can the Holy Spirit two or four different doctrine? No.

I also like to add the Penecostal in some of there sect deny the Trinity. They believe in Oneness or Jesus Only baptism. They claim they have the Holy Spirit. Sounds like the Spirit of Confusion. Where is the Truth? The Spirit of Truth? It is founded only in the Catholic Church. It has been preserve for over 2,000 yrs.

Salvation History favors Catholicism over Protestantism. Catholicism is the Only Church founded by the Blessed Lord Jesus Christ.