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Chancellare
Guest
No mattter - people will cling to whatever they want to believe these days!
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GKC
Guest
You are correct, as to Hislop.
GKC
GKC
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grannymh
Guest
Regarding the last statement in Post 11. The Catholic Church does not teach that the Real Presence in the Eucharist is spiritual.
To avoid unnecessary confusion, please use the following websites for quick, very easy to read Catholic teaching.
www.rockforddiocese.org click Meet Bishop Doran. Then click Bishop Doran’s pastoral letter on the Eucharist, 1997.
or go to www.rockforddiocese.org/bishop.
After you have read the above, here are further suggestions: I do not suggest that you do all the meditations at once.
First suggestion is to meditate on John 6: 35. This is key to understanding the Bread of Life Discourse (found in John 6: 22 -71.) Consider that John 6: 35 points directly to the Institution of the Eucharist (found in Luke 22: 14-20) Take your time. “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
Next time, meditate on Luke 22: 14-20. Think about how the Last Supper leads to the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
When you are ready to spend more quiet time, go to the beginning of John 6: 22 -71. Remind yourself that the Jews were familiar with the miracle of manna given to their ancestors in the desert. Therefore, Jesus needed to make sure that they didn’t think He was going to turn into bread similar to manna. So Jesus explained about the “true bread” which comes from God and gives life to the world. Of course Jesus is the One Who comes from God. Read John 3: 16 &17 a couple of times.
As you continue with John 6: 22-71, you will find that Jesus went on to emphasize that what comes from heaven, which referred to the Divinity of the Son of God, was actually Himself, present in flesh and blood before the crowd. As we meditate on Jesus giving Himself to us, we look back to John 6: 35 to find out how. The answer of course is “I am the Bread of Life” which is not like the manna which Jewish ancestors received. It may remind people of manna, but the “reality” is Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity.
Recall your previous meditation on Luke 22: 14-20. Think about this passage as a complete answer to the question of “how” Jesus will be present to us in the 21st century.
It is important to understand that “reality" is not only what we can measure with our senses. Who we are, or the substance of our being, or our human nature is not the same as the color of our hair, the fat on our bones or any adjective used to describe our appearance. For example, we can change the color of our hair and become slim, but we are still Joe or Jane, etc. We know instinctively that our being, the who we are, still exists. This example of remaining our self can be described as our substance being present while our appearances change. Hopefully, this will help you to understand the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. After His Resurrection, Jesus is truly present. However, when we are at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, instead of seeing the color of Jesus’ hair, we see the color of the bread and wine. The appearances have changed. In the Eucharist, the Divine Jesus Who rose from the dead is now substantially present. It is His power as God that allows the bread to retain its appearances so that we can easily receive Him.
Today, when we watch the priest lift the Sacred Host, we can believe with certainty that the reality of Jesus is before us. He is truly, substantially present in the Sacred Host. What our eyes see are only the appearances or the signs of bread. What we taste and swallow are the appearances of bread. What we receive is Jesus Christ, Himself. Love Him with all your being!
Blessings,
grannymh
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grannymh
Guest
Regarding the last statement in Post 11. The Catholic Church does not teach that the Real Presence in the Eucharist is spiritual.
To avoid unnecessary confusion, please use the following websites for quick, very easy to read Catholic teaching.
www.rockforddiocese.org click Meet Bishop Doran. Then click Bishop Doran’s pastoral letter on the Eucharist, 1997.
or go to [www.rockforddiocese.org/bishop](http://www.rockforddiocese.org/bishop)
After you have read the above, here are further suggestions: I do not suggest that you do all the meditations at once.
First suggestion is to meditate on John 6: 35. This is key to understanding the Bread of Life Discourse (found in John 6: 22 -71.) Consider that John 6: 35 points directly to the Institution of the Eucharist (found in Luke 22: 14-20) Take your time. “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
Next time, meditate on Luke 22: 14-20. Think about how the Last Supper leads to the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.
When you are ready to spend more quiet time, go to the beginning of John 6: 22 -71. Remind yourself that the Jews were familiar with the miracle of manna given to their ancestors in the desert. Therefore, Jesus needed to make sure that they didn’t think He was going to turn into bread similar to manna. So Jesus explained about the “true bread” which comes from God and gives life to the world. Of course Jesus is the One Who comes from God. Read John 3: 16 &17 a couple of times.
As you continue with John 6: 22-71, you will find that Jesus went on to emphasize that what comes from heaven, which referred to the Divinity of the Son of God, was actually Himself, present in flesh and blood before the crowd. As we meditate on Jesus giving Himself to us, we look back to John 6: 35 to find out how. The answer of course is “I am the Bread of Life” which is not like the manna which Jewish ancestors received. It may remind people of manna, but the “reality” is Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity.
Recall your previous meditation on Luke 22: 14-20. Think about this passage as a clearer answer to the question of “how” Jesus will be present to us in the 21st century.
It is important to understand that “reality" is not only what we can measure with our senses. Who we are, or the substance of our being, or our human nature is not the same as the color of our hair, the fat on our bones or any adjective used to describe our appearance. For example, we can change the color of our hair and become slim, but we are still Joe or Jane, etc. We know instinctively that our being, the who we are, still exists. This example of remaining our self can be described as our substance being present while our appearances change.
Hopefully, this will help you to understand the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. After His Resurrection, Jesus is truly present. However, when we are at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, instead of seeing the color of Jesus’ hair, we see the color of the bread and wine. The appearances have changed. In the Eucharist, the Divine Jesus Who rose from the dead is now substantially present. It is His power as God that allows the bread to retain its appearances so that we can easily receive Him.
Today, when we watch the priest lift the Sacred Host, we can believe with certainty that the reality of Jesus is before us. He is truly, substantially present under the appearances or signs of bread. What our eyes see are only the appearances or the signs of bread. What we taste and swallow are the appearances of bread. What we receive is Jesus Christ, Himself. Love Him with all your being!
Blessings,
grannymh
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Martin777
Guest
Yeh that was actually it. God was able to speak to him through the Scriptures about how to be saved in the way they were in Acts. Notice in Acts where the word ‘saved’ or ‘eternal life’ is used and you will see it was instant. You don’t even like to talk about being saved. I think it is because what is happening in the RCC is NOT what was happening when Peter preached and people were saved. It all made sense to him via God’s word.
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Sailka
Guest
I mistyped in Post 11.The following is in Post 11 and I can’t figure out where it comes from, let alone why.
- The Church teaches that the “Real Presence” in Eucharist Is “Spiritual”, although there have been Several widelly acclaimed Eucharistic Miracles, impossible to otherwise explain: Heart, Blood of Dropped Host in Italian Chapel Centuries ago, No preservatives, original state.
Blessings,
grannymh
uch: :dts: The Church Teaches, and we have the Proof of Real Presence in Eucharist at any Mass: The Effect it has on Many recipients. The Effects of Receiving the Eucharist are not ‘taught’, but a natural ‘experience’ to many, which may be described as ‘spiritual’.The RCC does not even use the Secular term ‘spiritual’ much, if ever.
Our Lord, the Apostles, The Bible repeatedly say that the Consecrated Eucharist: “Is My Body”…“Is My Blood”. Except for the several Eucharistic Miracles refered to, It is The Real Presence of Our Lord the Church And Our Lord and the Apostles all teach, that we Experience
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Sailka
Guest
It was the Apostles who Immediatelly after the Last Supper and Our Lord’s Death that they Used Our Lord’s Own Consecration Words in the Last Supper Feast, Exactly as Our Lord asked them to do “In My Remembrance”.
The “Last Supper Feast, and Sadar Bible Verses, and especially the Consecration In Our Lord’s Words” have been THE Heart of the Catholic Church literally since the Last Supper. It has been The Liturgy, The Definition of The Church Our Lord founded.The Communion Our Lord gave the Apostles at the Last Supper Tasted like the leavened Bread and Wine they Are. There is Real Presence under the species (Taste/Substance) of Bread, Wine. The Church has Never taught that Communion Is Flesh, Blood, The Apostles never thought so. OK? Our Lord’s words were Figurative, as Much in the Bible is. Real Presence is the thing; From the Hands on Apostolic Powers From Our Lord Himself. Proof of Our Lord’s Power is in the Flesh/Blood several Host changed to, Special Circumstances. No chemical tricks were involved, Are Real Miracles By God! Are documented and searchable. But is Important to remember one has to be “Worthy” (St Paul’s words) of Receiving the Eucharist, in being Full Catholic and Serious Sin free.
Someone else asked where the 'Hokus Pokus" Consecration words came from. I would Never call Any words of Our Lord “hokus pokus” 1 Corr 11:23-29. I don’t think Our Lord would like that.
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O.S.Luke
Guest
It is a misunderstanding (and an apocryphal story) regarding the Latin phrase hoc est enim corpus meum, lit., “This is my Body” as found in the liturgy of the Eucharist.
This is also the phrase that in the most heated arguments of the Marburg Colluquy (it had turned fierce and nearly violent), Martin Luther wrote on a table in chalk, in response to Ulrich Zwingli stating that the Real Presence was bunk and that Christ was only present symbolically and only to the believer.
Though not noted in the narrative, it is possible (and probable) that Luther might have had a few steins of beer by then.
O+
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Martin777
Guest
I was not calling anything Jesus said, ‘hocu pocus’ Isn’t it a fact that what the priest says over the bread and wine is a Latin phrase that contains Latin the words, 'hokum pokum" or something very close to that?It was the Apostles who Immediatelly after the Last Supper and Our Lord’s Death that they Used Our Lord’s Own Consecration Words in the Last Supper Feast, Exactly as Our Lord asked them to do “In My Remembrance”.
The Communion Our Lord gave the Apostles at the Last Supper Tasted like the leavened Bread and Wine they Are. There is Real Presence under the species (Taste/Substance) of Bread, Wine. The Church has Never taught that Communion Is Flesh, Blood, The Apostles never thought so. OK? Our Lord’s words were Figurative, as Much in the Bible is. Real Presence is the thing; From the Hands on Apostolic Powers From Our Lord Himself. Proof of Our Lord’s Power is in the Flesh/Blood several Host changed to, Special Circumstances. No chemical tricks were involved, Are Real Miracles By God! Are documented and searchable. But is Important to remember one has to be “Worthy” (St Paul’s words) of Receiving the Eucharist, in being Full Catholic and Serious Sin free.
Someone else asked where the 'Hokus Pokus" Consecration words came from. I would Never call Any words of Our Lord “hokus pokus” 1 Corr 11:23-29. I don’t think Our Lord would like that.
So the RCC doesn’t teach that the wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus? If not, then my bad, my ignorance and I apologize.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Of course it does.
The majority of Christians in the world accept this because this is what Jesus told us.
I’ve been warned about people like you!
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, Chapter 6, 110 A.D.:
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God … They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.
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Sailka
Guest
See Post # 48 above for the Most interesting, significant history of those words Of Our Lord.
The Church teaches Flesh and Blood, but not Actual Blood, Actual Flesh presence after Consecration By Our Lord, in His words. The Appearrances of Bread, Wine remain.
I only understood a year ago that the Church Teaches as the Bible does: is Only One High Priest in Creation: Our Lord Jesus Christ. Each Priest acts On Behalf Of Our Lord. Only Our Lord has Divine Powers of Consecration, Forgiving/retaining Sins, Sacramemtal powers. Our Lord says Mass, Consecrates, Forgives, gives the Sacraments through the Priest, qualified by 4 years Postgraduate education, Lifetime vows, And laying on of Hands apostolic Ordination. * The Bishops Act on Behalf of Our Lord with Directly anointed Direct Apostolic powers Of the Apostles, installed by Laying on of Hands. Same the Pope, Representing Our Lord on earth, As Our Lord told all and St Peter in first Anointing Him in Matt 16;18-19* The Priesthood is thought to have begun about the end of the First Century because were not enough Bishops for the Rapidly growing Church. The early Bishops began ordaining assisting Prebyters with Apostolic Powers, resulting in the Priesthood.
Thabk you for asking. Are very important points. Yet, the Catholic Church feels no superiority over any other Church, only Fully Living Our Lord and Bible. Another beautiful aspect of Church Humility. A true Protestant Minister/Priest exhibits the same humility in serving the Lord, and the Church Respects them fully. But we hold that they do not have full apostolic powers, bor can do Our Lord’s work Fully.
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Martin777
Guest
What in the world does that have to do with me? I practict communion, I pray hourly, and I passionately believe and teach about the glorious gift of God’s grace. Balance your reading out with more Scripture.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
I could recommend the same for you.
Scripture is quite clear on the matter:
John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
1 Cor 11
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
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Martin777
Guest
I want to make sure that you are not “straining gnats and swallowing camels”, as Jesus put it…
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
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Sailka
Guest
I want to make sure that you are not “straining gnats and swallowing camels”, as Jesus put it…
Its good not to ignore gnats and camels and Our Lords Teachings. Where does the Bible Ever say that once Born Again, heaven is assured? Born again is one big step in Salvation. We Catholics are Born Again for real, Every time we receive the 7 Sacraments of our Lord, like, as He repeatedly emphasizes: Ye Can not have Life, Unless Eat my Flesh, Drink my Blood". Is the Real Presence Eucharist of His Church, daily available.
Good to look at the Biggest Picture, Overrview of Our Lord’s teaching. He Began His Church, upon Peter *** The Rock of His Church, With Keys to heaven to Him. Did our lord give us the New Testament to be saved? Did he place the Key to Heaven in the still unwritten New Testament?
He chose and Anointed the twelve Apostles with Apostolic Powers: John 20:19-23, After He arose from the Dead. He gave Them the Power to Bind/Loose in the forgiveness of Sins and Administering His Church. The Magisterium of the Church (All Bishops) Are the Rules and Dogmas Deciding level of The Church, agreed to by The Pope.
God said in 1 Timothy 3:15 that Truth on Earth is in the Apostles/His Church
No Major Dogma or teaching of The Church has changed in 2000 Years, which Rather proves the Infallibility of “Bound In Heaven”. Heaven is not fallible, last we heard.
The Commission to the Apostles, Disciples was Not teaching only. And was no New Testament. The 2 activities Of Our Lord’s Early Church were (1) Teaching to Convert vast numbers to His Church; Required lengthy Full teaching as Now. The Catechumens were required to Leave the Consecration part of the Last Supper Feast, Then. (2) The Last Supper Feast, With Consecration Into Real Presence Bread/Wine, BY the Apostles Only was the Singular Center of The Church from the beginning.
Martin Luther stated in His Time that he wished he had Not started the Reformation, when he heard of the New Idea of Preaching and Singing ONLY.
And the “Do This in Remebrance” Was/Is the Last Supper/Mass now, With Consecration of Real Presence Eucharist
God
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Martin777
Guest
Does copying and pasting that exempt you from studying the Bible and thinking about what it really says? I think there is something else going on. So why don’t you do something different. click on this link (or copy and paste it if you need to) and listen to Third Day sing about our faith (the Apostles’ Creed):Its good not to ignore gnats and camels and Our Lords Teachings. Where does the Bible Ever say that once Born Again, heaven is assured? Born again is one big step in Salvation. We Catholics are Born Again for real, Every time we receive the 7 Sacraments of our Lord, like, as He repeatedly emphasizes: Ye Can not have Life, Unless Eat my Flesh, Drink my Blood". Is the Real Presence Eucharist of His Church, daily available.
Good to look at the Biggest Picture, Overrview of Our Lord’s teaching. He Began His Church, upon Peter *** The Rock of His Church, With Keys to heaven to Him. Did our lord give us the New Testament to be saved? Did he place the Key to Heaven in the still unwritten New Testament?
He chose and Anointed the twelve Apostles with Apostolic Powers: John 20:19-23, After He arose from the Dead. He gave Them the Power to Bind/Loose in the forgiveness of Sins and Administering His Church. The Magisterium of the Church (All Bishops) Are the Rules and Dogmas Deciding level of The Church, agreed to by The Pope.
God said in 1 Timothy 3:15 that Truth on Earth is in the Apostles/His Church
No Major Dogma or teaching of The Church has changed in 2000 Years, which Rather proves the Infallibility of “Bound In Heaven”. Heaven is not fallible, last we heard.
The Commission to the Apostles, Disciples was Not teaching only. And was no New Testament. The 2 activities Of Our Lord’s Early Church were (1) Teaching to Convert vast numbers to His Church; Required lengthy Full teaching as Now. The Catechumens were required to Leave the Consecration part of the Last Supper Feast, Then. (2) The Last Supper Feast, With Consecration Into Real Presence Bread/Wine, BY the Apostles Only was the Singular Center of The Church from the beginning.
Martin Luther stated in His Time that he wished he had Not started the Reformation, when he heard of the New Idea of Preaching and Singing ONLY.
And the “Do This in Remebrance” Was/Is the Last Supper/Mass now, With Consecration of Real Presence Eucharist
God
youtube.com/watch?v=5oybROi7Ehg
This is the kind of music born again people produce.
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ckempston
Guest
Pretty much everything to do with Mary beyond what is stated explicitly in the Bible is hard for me to accept. If I had to pick one thing to do with Mary, it would be the idea that she was free from sin.
She’s Blessed. She’s the mother of our Lord. That’s about all I believe about Mary.
She’s Blessed. She’s the mother of our Lord. That’s about all I believe about Mary.
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