non-catholic churches

[t68ware]

Hello all! For those who know, I am Protestant with a great love for the Catholic church. That being said, it is the teaching of some Catholics we Protestants are heretics. If that is so, what is the opinion of the Church about non-Catholic ministries and churches who are growing and show evidence of being blessed by God? There are many, many ministries and groups that have the favor of God upon them, but if we are heretics, how is God blessing them?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Hello all! For those who know, I am Protestant with a great love for the Catholic church. That being said, it is the teaching of some Catholics we Protestants are heretics. If that is so, what is the opinion of the Church about non-Catholic ministries and churches who are growing and show evidence of being blessed by God? There are many, many ministries and groups that have the favor of God upon them, but if we are heretics, how is God blessing them?

Define your evidence of blessing please. If growth is sign of blessings then Islam must be looked upon pretty favourably by the Lord too.

 

[ralphinal]

What is a heretic? What is heretical? We must first see how these terms apply to non-Catholic churches to determine if they are such.

God can use anyone he wants to save souls through Christ. To say that it is proof of anything is a bit off.

If you are talking about health and wealth denominaitons growing, it is because they are telling people what they want to hear, not because God is blessing them.

 

[t68ware]

Define your evidence of blessing please. If growth is sign of blessings then Islam must be looked upon pretty favourably by the Lord too.

Growth is not a sign of blessing by God. Take for example Billy Graham ministries or Compassion International. They are non-Catholic ministries but it is clear God is using them mightedly. Blessing to me is defined where God is working to save people and introducing them to the saving power of Christ. There are other blessings but at least for this conversation, this is what I mean.

 

[t68ware]

What is a heretic? What is heretical? We must first see how these terms apply to non-Catholic churches to determine if they are such.

God can use anyone he wants to save souls through Christ. To say that it is proof of anything is a bit off.

If you are talking about health and wealth denominaitons growing, it is because they are telling people what they want to hear, not because God is blessing them.

I am just saying what I have read many, many times on this forum, that we Protestants are heretics. Prosperity is not a means of blessing, as some ministries proclaim. God working in order to bring others to Christ is the blessing I am speaking of. If we are heretics, how can God use us? And if He does use us, what does that say about our denominations then? Is God blessing heretics?

 

[ralphinal]

I am just saying what I have read many, many times on this forum, that we Protestants are heretics. Prosperity is not a means of blessing, as some ministries proclaim. God working in order to bring others to Christ is the blessing I am speaking of. If we are heretics, how can God use us? And if He does use us, what does that say about our denominations then? Is God blessing heretics?

That is why we must define if, in fact, you are heretics. Not all Catholics hold to that position.

For instance, I hold that the first generation dividers were heretics. After that, the individual people may not be. Yes, the denomination may hold some heretical views, but that is a separate issue.

I agree with the Church. Non-Catholic Christians have a deficiancy in their faith system, but it does not mean that God cannot use them for His plan.

In the Bible, not everyone was Jewish who helped God’s people. There can be rightous people who are not even Christians. I cannot say who God has and has not given grace to.

You go one step to far to say that God is blessing heretics. We cannot say that you are heretics to begin with. God is blessing those who are trying to do his will on earth, even if that understanding of God is limited by man’s sins.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I am just saying what I have read many, many times on this forum, that we Protestants are heretics. Prosperity is not a means of blessing, as some ministries proclaim. God working in order to bring others to Christ is the blessing I am speaking of. If we are heretics, how can God use us? And if He does use us, what does that say about our denominations then? Is God blessing heretics?

Protestantism is a heresy, the Church is fairly clear on that. But while they are heretics, they are still Christians, albeit not in possession of the Fullness of Truth. Protestants growing is not a sign of blessing, it is merely a sign of growth.

 

[t68ware]

That is why we must define if, in fact, you are heretics. Not all Catholics hold to that position.

For instance, I hold that the first generation dividers were heretics. After that, the individual people may not be. Yes, the denomination may hold some heretical views, but that is a separate issue.

I agree with the Church. Non-Catholic Christians have a deficiancy in their faith system, but it does not mean that God cannot use them for His plan.

In the Bible, not everyone was Jewish who helped God’s people. There can be rightous people who are not even Christians. I cannot say who God has and has not given grace to.

You go one step to far to say that God is blessing heretics. We cannot say that you are heretics to begin with. God is blessing those who are trying to do his will on earth, even if that understanding of God is limited by man’s sins.

We are said to be heretics because we do not believe the Catholic Church is the one true church founded by Christ and we do not believe the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ, plus the Mary stuff. I believe these things, but a majority of non-catholic churches do not. That is what i mean by heretic.

 

[joeybaggz]

We are said to be heretics because we do not believe the Catholic Church is the one true church founded by Christ and we do not believe the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ, plus the Mary stuff. I believe these things, but a majority of non-catholic churches do not. That is what i mean by heretic.

The teaching of the church is that Protestants, though they have the necessary means of salvation, are in an imperfect communion with the church. I don’t think modern teaching, especially from the Magesterium in Rome, uses the word heretics. Prostestants in the eyes of most informed Catholics have he truth in its basic form. As to the disagreement about Mary, that’s understandable. As to the rejection of the primacy of Peter, that’s a tough one for me to understand how Bible believing Protestants reject that one. (of course I do understand why, I just want to be charitable and not say it )

That’s not to say some ultra right conservative Catholic, and I’ve seen a few in my time, won’t use the word heretic.

And if any of my Catholic friends have the exact wording of the teaching about “imperfect communion”, please cite it.

 

[JonNC]

We are said to be heretics because we do not believe the Catholic Church is the one true church founded by Christ and we do not believe the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ, plus the Mary stuff. I believe these things, but a majority of non-catholic churches do not. That is what i mean by heretic.

I think Ralphinal and others here have been quite right about what they say the Holy See says about us. I’m curious about what you mean about the “Mary stuff” As you know, Luther’s mariology was not too dissimilar from current Catholic teaching, other than intercession.

Jon

 

[t68ware]

I think Ralphinal and others here have been quite right about what they say the Holy See says about us. I’m curious about what you mean about the “Mary stuff” As you know, Luther’s mariology was not too dissimilar from current Catholic teaching, other than intercession.

Jon

The “Mary stuff” is that Protestants do not believe in praying to Mary and asking for her to intercede for us. We also believe she was born with original sin and did not remain a virgin.

 

[dmelosi]

Hello all! For those who know, I am Protestant with a great love for the Catholic church. That being said, it is the teaching of some Catholics we Protestants are heretics. If that is so, what is the opinion of the Church about non-Catholic ministries and churches who are growing and show evidence of being blessed by God? There are many, many ministries and groups that have the favor of God upon them, but if we are heretics, how is God blessing them?

In Christianity, heresy is a "theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church.

from Wikepidia.

The Catholic church teaches that only God knows what is in a persons heart and who will get to heaven. We believe that the way to heaven is through the Catholic church, remember only God knows if a person is “Catholic” in their heart by knowing that if they had the opportunity to truly know the Catholic church, that they would have followed Christ through His Church.

Follow this line of thought…I have friends who are ministers of many other denominations and am sure they are blessed in their ministries. I believe that if they knew what the Catholic Church teaches, really teaches, that they would become very devout Catholics.

To make a short story long…yes I am sure other ministries are blessed and are showed favor by God.

As you keep reading these forums please keep an open mind to what the Catholic Church teaches, the more you learn, the more you are drawn to it. If you are a big common sense person, the teachings of the Catholic Church just makes so much sense.

 

[jmcrae]

Hello all! For those who know, I am Protestant with a great love for the Catholic church. That being said, it is the teaching of some Catholics we Protestants are heretics. If that is so, what is the opinion of the Church about non-Catholic ministries and churches who are growing and show evidence of being blessed by God? There are many, many ministries and groups that have the favor of God upon them, but if we are heretics, how is God blessing them?

God must also have been blessing Communistic atheism in the period from 1917 to 1984 - and I can’t explain that one, either.

Someone who is born into a belief system who has no way of learning differently than what he has been brought up with cannot be considered a “heretic,” though, since a heretic is someone who knows the truth but prefers the lie, for reasons of convenience, family harmony, or personal gain, etc.

 

[JonNC]

The “Mary stuff” is that Protestants do not believe in praying to Mary and asking for her to intercede for us. We also believe she was born with original sin and did not remain a virgin.

Ok, but, of course, not all non-catholics hold to that, except intercession.

Beyond that, here is a quote from Lumen Gentium that states what the CC thinks of us:

1. The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.[14] For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honor as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour,[15] who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion of the Virgin Mother of God.[16] There is furthermore a sharing in prayer and spiritual benefits; these Christians are indeed in some real way joined to us in the Holy Spirit for, by his gifts and graces, his sanctifying power is also active in them and he has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood. And so the Spirit stirs up desires and actions in all of Christ’s disciples in order that all may be peaceably united, as Christ ordained, in one flock under one shepherd.[17] Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may be achieved, and she exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the Church.

Jon

 

[ralphinal]

God must also have been blessing Communistic atheism in the period from 1917 to 1984 - and I can’t explain that one, either.

Someone who is born into a belief system who has no way of learning differently than what he has been brought up with cannot be considered a “heretic,” though, since a heretic is someone who knows the truth but prefers the lie, for reasons of convenience, family harmony, or personal gain, etc.

And there it is. You must know the truth and prefer the lie.

I do not want to get into the doctrinal differences. This thread can lead to some good discussion if we keep it on the topic.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Growth is not a sign of blessing by God. Take for example Billy Graham ministries or Compassion International. They are non-Catholic ministries but it is clear God is using them mightedly. Blessing to me is defined where God is working to save people and introducing them to the saving power of Christ. There are other blessings but at least for this conversation, this is what I mean.

As a Catholic, I have a lot of respect for Rev. Graham. He is one of the Protestants who has shown a lot of respect for Catholicism. He has expressed my belief that we are all connected through our faith in Jesus Christ.

Rather than label people, we have to be non-judgemental with our approach to all people.

Christ taught us to love our enemies and I don’t feel those who follow Christ are not enemies and we certainly can express love for those with a different opinion.

I’d like to invite you to read an interview with Rev. Graham on the Larry King show. They were speaking about Pope John Paul II.

May the peace of the Lord be with you.
Prodigal Son1

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hello all! For those who know, I am Protestant with a great love for the Catholic church. That being said, it is the teaching of some Catholics we Protestants are heretics. If that is so, what is the opinion of the Church about non-Catholic ministries and churches who are growing and show evidence of being blessed by God? There are many, many ministries and groups that have the favor of God upon them, but if we are heretics, how is God blessing them?

Remenber this
Jesus said:" let the weed and the wheat grow together until the harvest day."
this is pretty scary to me.

Until one understand what the Church really means, one cannot understand the True message of Jesus.

i believe the discussions here are somehow fruitless because catholics say to many things to protestants and they dont understand a thing what we are talking about.
they think that CC is just another denomination.
the CC is just a building anywhere.
they cannot comprehend this divine institution.
they have no idea who the CC is.

i concluded that for what i read in here and how they talk about the CC with so much disrespect, so it is probably wise to avoid arguments that causes them to blaspheme against Our Lord therefore sinning against Our God.

if they could just imagine what the CC really is; they would fall in their faces before God and ask forgiveness.

the humility of the CC is beyond comprehension.

like father Groeschel said once, only by the Grace of God one can see this Church.
arguments back and forth will not do it. they get even more angry as the argument goes on and results in insults.

:bowdown: :byzsoc:

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

As a Catholic, I have a lot of respect for Rev. Graham. He is one of the Protestants who has shown a lot of respect for Catholicism. He has expressed my belief that we are all connected through our faith in Jesus Christ.

Rather than label people, we have to be non-judgemental with our approach to all people.

Christ taught us to love our enemies and I don’t feel those who follow Christ are enemies and we certainly can express love for those with a different opinion.

I’d like to invite you to read an interview with Rev. Graham on the Larry King show. They were speaking about Pope John Paul II.

May the peace of the Lord be with you.
Prodigal Son1

Quoted myself to correct a typo.
I had said, Christ taught us to love our enemies and I don’t feel those who follow Christ are **not **enemies and we certainly can express love for those with a different opinion.
I don’t consider followers of Christ to be enemies…temporarily separated maybe.