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Memaw
Guest
Thank you! You seem to have a better understanding about our belief in the TRUE Presence of Jesus in the Sacred Host, than even many Catholics do. God Bless, Keep seeking the TRUTH. Memaw
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Memaw
Guest
Your right, God Bless, MemawI think you’re reading a little more into my post than you should.
An Evangelical is not going to view the Eucharist the way you do, however true it is. My intention in that last sentence is to suggest that the fact that the Church teaches that non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist should be reason enough to not do so, out of respect, regardless of whether one believes it or not.
…And with your spirit.
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PJM
Guest
What most P’s often cannot understand, as they know NOT the essential separation ofI know the Catholic Church claims a Catholic can go anywhere in the world and be in familiar territory at a Mass. But what if someone on vacation attended your parish and was not accustomed to bowing? Memaw noted their pastor has refused Communion to anyone who does not hold their hands properly or does not bow. Would yours do the same to one who stopped by to fulfill their Mass obligation along their travels? Say a Ravens, Bengals or Browns fan perhaps
Edit: Well not a Browns fan. I just read the article Padres provided and it seems in the Cleveland diocese they now bow. So someone from there visiting your parish would already be doing this.
[1] Faith Beliefs: UNCHANGEABLE and held in common world-wide
FROM [Practices] which ARE changeable, controllable by the Local Bishops.
While each Bishop can legislate different postures and actions; NO BISHOP except for the POPE can change FAITH Beliefs; AND even then he must follow Sacred Tradition. Amen
And it definitely has to be the Bengals
Easter Blessings,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
So my friend, can you share just why you choose to be a “non-practicing Catholic?”
And I too extend grateful thanks for our fellow Christians coming into their faith-belief churches at Easter.
Easter Blessings upon all of you,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
This Pastor isassuming a GREAT responsibility. Catholic Holy Communion as a RULE is not to be refused to anyone that presents themselves for Holy Communion; UNLESS the pastor has INFORMATION we may not have; such as a very public politician who PUBLICLY supports abortion; in which case that politician can be denied.
Or if someone presents themselves OBVIOUSLY not prepared to worthy our God, such as a drunk.
As for the improper holding of one’s hands to receive Jesus; this is a matter of catechesis; and OUGHT to be dealt with on an individual basis; NOT subject to refusal by the priest unless he had TRIED to correct the action previously.
The Priest IS responsible for the Souls of his parishioners, but ALSO for their RIGHT Faith-formation. So as stated, priest are NOT perfect, BUT the Church does go out of Her way to offer them guidance
We however are NOT to be judgmental; ONLY God has all of the facts. Just offer up a prayer for them. And certainly do not gossip…
THANKS for your testimonyI already stated it isn’t a strict requirement in my Parish. I can’t really speak for Memaw’s pastor refusing someone based on proper hands. However, I can say no pastor is perfect. Maybe he was having a bad day.
Just wanted to add, I was at mass in a few parishes in Italy and even though I didn’t speak the language I new exactly what was going on in the mass and wasn’t refused communion.
Easter Blessings,
PJM
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PJM
Guest
One should NOT leave there pew to share a sign of Peace. Jesus; GOD is truly in our midst and excessive efforts in this regard are both unbecoming AND unnecessary.
BLESSINGS in place of Holy Communion CAN be given by the PRIEST or Deacon [BUT not EM"s] to those who are either NOT practicing Catholics, or perhaps in a second -marriage situation. SUCH should as the NORM [if permitted by that parish priest?] cross them arms over their chest, indicating a DESIRE to be Blessed, but NOT participating in Holy Communion.
Easter Blessings,
PJM
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Padres1969
Guest
Yeah I would hope that by simply attending Catholic mass regularly the OP’s boyfriend would begin to appreciate the importance that Catholics place on the Eucharist. I mean at most Evangelical/Non-Denominational services I’ve been to the communion is simply bread/wafers distributed with thimble sized cups of grape juice. Typically they’re on a table of some sort near the stage/altar that you go up and pick your wafer/cup or they’re simply passed around the congregation. No words of consecration are said over them. If anything is said it’s usually the bible passage of the last supper is read at the beginning, but that’s not universal. It’s is universally described as receiving the bread and wine, body and blood aren’t used outside the context of the bible passage if read. It’s not called Eucharist, but communion or table.
Simply attending Catholic mass with any regularity one should eventually begin to recognize that something is different even absent any formal education on the differences. Throw in someone explaining the differences and the reasonsing, and I’d hope the OP’s boyfriend would eventually begin to accept why he can’t receive.
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TC3033
Guest
One may accept the practice, but it can take a long…long time to accept the premise. I think I’ve covered a handful of times in this thread where her boyfriend is coming from and that it can take time. If OP and really wants her boyfriend to understand and “accept” the premise, a little compassion can go a long way. Even when you accept that, Mass can still be really…really awkward for the non-Catholic family member, especially when everyone watches you sit at communion time. A little compassion and understanding there can go a long way as well.
I accept it, but that doesn’t mean that the practice doesn’t make me feel as though I’m being told I’m less of a Christian (along with some other stuff that was done to me, but different thread…different topic) because I need to stay in the pew while the rest of my in-laws go up. It may not be what the Catholic Church means, but that’s how it can come across. And as discussed, that can be hurtful (even though I hear that’s not supposed to be what the Catholic church is conveying), it’s a lifetime of learning that needs to be changed and that really can take time.
It was good to finally hear and learn that my communion back home (that we have weekly) really doesn’t mean anything and should mean nothing to me. I can finally put that strange teaching behind me [/sarcasm].
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
Sy, thank you for the greeting. I hope you had a lovely Easter.
Did you notice that the Sermon from St John Chrysostom that I quoted spoke of the Table at Easter? Not quite what people are saying is standard Catholic teaching, but more in my own theological understanding. Let all enjoy the riches of the Table.
"You that have kept the fast, and you that have not,
rejoice today for the Table is richly laden!
Feast royally on it, the calf is a fatted one.
Let no one go away hungry. Partake, all, of the cup of faith.
Enjoy all the riches of His goodness!"
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Padres1969
Guest
Oh don’t get me wrong, having talked to you and others in just this thread never mind elsewhere I understand true acceptance of it can take a long time, if acceptance ever comes at all, and clearly can be helped by compassionately teaching why. But at the very least understanding of the differences, even absent acceptance, should come in due course through that compassionate explanation, and through regular exposure to the Catholic Eucharist and it’s significantly different character from Evangelical and Non-Denominational table services.
I mean you have indicated yourself that you understand why you can’t receive even if you still struggle with the acceptance of not being able to participate.
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TC3033
Guest
Agree (and my bad if I came off a bit coarse earlier, bad day) on most points. The Eucharist does have a significantly different character in the Catholic Church, but that doesn’t mean all Catholics treat it as so, which I think can add to any confusion.
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Padres1969
Guest
Agreed. I pointed out as much several pages back. I mean the majority of Catholics these days according to polling don’t believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist any more. And you can see some of that in that many Catholics receive in a manner that the RCC would deem unworthy (ie: with mortal sins on their souls). I mean most self identified Catholics I know don’t go to confession anymore (or at least not regularly) and yet they receive communion anyway. Heck other than my old man who doesn’t go to confession or receive communion on the rare times he’s in church I don’t know any Catholics personally who ever abstain from receiving.
For non-Catholics it can be understandably confusing when Catholics themselves don’t understand their own Eucharist or the rules associated with it and by extension aren’t acting as good examples.
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TC3033
Guest
Yep…
I think it was in this thread when I shared the story about how my SIL and wife were talking one evening and SIL said that I should just go up, no one would know.
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ComplineSanFran
Guest
You know, members of the LDS community have rituals and ceremonies that are Temple based and closed to all unworthy Mormons (and of course non-Mormons). You need your Temple recommend to get past the gates, as it were.
However, other worship services and gatherings are always open to the public.
I wonder if Communion were to be considered a parallel to the Temple rites, how that would work. Just thinking out loud here. Would there be a cordoned off space for Communion? Would non-worthy Catholics be asked to leave as Communion began? Other possibilities? Something to think about…
However, other worship services and gatherings are always open to the public.
I wonder if Communion were to be considered a parallel to the Temple rites, how that would work. Just thinking out loud here. Would there be a cordoned off space for Communion? Would non-worthy Catholics be asked to leave as Communion began? Other possibilities? Something to think about…
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Sy_Noe
Guest
I’ll answer briefly since you asked but this thread is not about me so I will limit my answer to this one. But for the same reason that I believe the reasons come down to for anyone else who is not faithful. Irregardless of how learned one may be. It still comes down to lack of the required faith, beliefs, and views that are necessary in order to be. CAF actually has helped me confirm this. And even though the Catholic Church claims me as Catholic, if I didn’t use the adjective, I would be accused of causing confusion. None of which though should be misconstrued however as lacking faith or belief or views of course.
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Padres1969
Guest
It could work like it used to during my grade school days, especially during First Friday morning masses. After the Liturgy of the Word, the catechumens, both adult and kids, would all stand up and leave the church while the priest prayed a blessing for them. The mass then continued with the Liturgy of the Eucharist and the few non-Catholic kids and catechumens would head off to morning recess, which typically followed mass, early.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
This I just have to say troubles me just a bit because of a personal experience. Indeed Catholics and others for that matter believe Jesus is in their midst. But I recall a few yrs back. My first time at a parish. I’m rather introverted so sometimes new experiences can make me somewhat nervous so to speak. And I was sitting there in my chair at the point of the Mass when it was time for the Sign of Peace. I forget, there may have been a person or two in front of me with whom I offered and exchanged peace to and with. At which point I turned around to see if there was anyone seated behind me. And what I saw was such a welcomed surprise. Here came this gentleman walking in the aisle towards me from the very last row of chairs against the back wall. He dressed that day in faded jeans and a tee shirt, hair unkempt. I didn’t hesitate to get up and walk out into the aisle myself and meet him. I still remember the man to this day several yrs later and the positive impact he left on me. To this day I can not bring myself to believe that his effort was unbecoming or unnecessary.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Understood; But! I addressed your post not to rebuttal, but to clarify, what most Evangelical’s would misinterpret your post to mean here; “Most of all, he should simply accept that he cannot participate because that is **simply Catholic teaching **and that he should abstain from it out of respect for you and your faith.”
Again; For clarification , the biblical discipline revealed in order to partake of the Eucharist is not a "simply Catholic teaching. What is a Catholic Teaching to which you are addressing is a biblical faith which is recorded in the bible for all Evangelicals to see;
1Corinthians 11;23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you,For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes… 27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.*
28A person should examine himself,* and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
*29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. **30
That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
In summary; Participation of Holy Communion in the Catholic Mass is not a “Simply” Catholic Teaching. It is a biblical Apostolic Practice and divine revelation by God. Just for clarification.
Rejoice!!! Jesus is resurrected.
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Reuben_J
Guest
After listening to what many non-Catholics said while attending Catholic mass, I can understand how you feel. If anything, it only highlighted our differences and that’s the reality.
From Catholic standpoint, you are not less of a Christian as a person because you can be a good person, a good Christian, but your belief, yes, it does not have the fullness of truth. The fact that you are excluded from receiving Holy Communion, in a way very much highlight this.
As I said to the OP in my post, there is nothing much that can be done here to make you feel better as far as the mass is concerned. It would be a point of difference. The only thing for you would be to accept the mass as it is – that you are not going to agree with it; it is exclusively a Catholic worship. And thus should you go for a Catholic mass together with family members who are Catholics, remember that you are attending a worship which is nothing according to your set of belief. I think that would help – knowing that you are going to a liturgy of a different religion.
The OP’s boyfriend has to come to term that Catholic mass is different from his set belief and then start from there. There is no two ways about it.
God bless.
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Reuben_J
Guest
I have read some of your posts and I appreciate them very much. You speak well, frankly and truthfully of Catholic mass. There is nothing to add. As a Catholic myself, this would be what I like from non-Catholics.
God bless.
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