Non-Catholic Exclusion of the Eucharist

[steve_b]

That’s quite inaccurate. Christians from the beginning had different communities, with different practices and different authorities, spread throughout the known world.

Re: that comment

From Jesus own lips

Jn 17:
20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21* that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory which you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Paul had this to say about THEM who wouldn’t remain perfectly united, and instead cause dissent and division

Romans 16:17-20 (links operational)
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions διχοστασίας ] and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. [18] For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent. For your obedience is published in every place. I rejoice therefore in you. But I would have you to be wise in good, and simple in evil. And the God of peace crush Satan under your feet speedily.

That Greek word there for dissent / division in Romans, doesn’t say what will specifically happen to those individuals who cause dissent and division. We know what they do is evil, and they don’t serve Jesus but their own selfish interests, but the consequences for that sin to the individual is described in Galatians. The one(s)who are in that sin, will be in hell for all eternity if they don’t return to the Catholic Church

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, διχοστασίας ] sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

The timeline between Irenaeus and St John the apostle, was only one man, Bp Polycarp, who was a direct disciple of St John. And Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp. Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresies". Here is what he wrote on authority, and he gave his source where he received his teaching from. It was taught by Peter and Paul at Rome, and passed on by their successors, the bishops of Rome, down to Irenaeus’s day.

• Bk 3 [Chapter 3 (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm) v 1-3 all must agree with the Church of Rome, and that came from Peter and Paul at Rome
• “while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said” Bk 1 **Chapter 10 **v 3

 

[SyroMalankara]

Might not be able to just do so out of the blue, but if you ask they might consider having you strum on as part of a service at a non-denominational.

Why should I be forced to ask? Can’t I - being Spirit led - simply do so? After all, you don’t want to restrict the Spirit, right? And what about the first part - why can’t I spontaneously offer the Communion service at the Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, nondenominational church? Why am I excluded from doing so?

 

[TC3033]

Why should I be forced to ask? Can’t I - being Spirit led - simply do so? After all, you don’t want to restrict the Spirit, right? And what about the first part - why can’t I spontaneously offer the Communion service at the Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, nondenominational church? Why am I excluded from doing so?

That’s quite the assumption. At my church you can if you want. We usually put in the bulletin who will be leading communion for the month (by week), so people know ahead of time but if you really want to, go for it.

And I’m not sure what interrupting the service to take a guitar and just start playing it has anything to do with open communion.

Why are so many on here so bent on belittling and downplaying others beliefs just because they we had the audacity to try to explain to the OP where here boyfriend may have been coming from? Boggles the mind really.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I’m not belittling the belief, it’s an attempt to try to have someone unaware of the centrality of the Holy Mysteries within the context of worship and the Divine Liturgy in particular, understand within the context of worship they are aware of. In many non Catholic churches, the sermon or the worship music or something else is central. It would be inappropriate for anyone to willy-nilly take it upon himself to presume he’s entitled to do it for himself

 

[SyroMalankara]

Imagine that within the context of nondenominational praise music, I decide on my own that this is not welcoming enough. So I say, hey give me your guitar and let me show you what welcoming is, I think I’d be escorted outside to wait for the police

 

[TC3033]

Imagine that within the context of nondenominational praise music, I decide on my own that this is not welcoming enough. So I say, hey give me your guitar and let me show you what welcoming is, I think I’d be escorted outside to wait for the police

And what does interrupting the service have to do with open communion again? “praise music” (that’s a new one).

 

[Padres1969]

Why should I be forced to ask? Can’t I - being Spirit led - simply do so? After all, you don’t want to restrict the Spirit, right? And what about the first part - why can’t I spontaneously offer the Communion service at the Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, nondenominational church? Why am I excluded from doing so?

Spontaneously you’re excluded from doing so because you’re not a priest or extraordinary Eucharist minister at least in an Anglican Church.

 

[rcwitness]

That’s quite the assumption. At my church you can if you want. We usually put in the bulletin who will be leading communion for the month (by week), so people know ahead of time but if you really want to, go for it.

And I’m not sure what interrupting the service to take a guitar and just start playing it has anything to do with open communion.

I agree. I didn’t see the point of that questioning.

Why are so many on here so bent on belittling and downplaying others beliefs just because they we had the audacity to try to explain to the OP where here boyfriend may have been coming from? Boggles the mind really.

I’m sorry you’ve felt belittled. I’ve been trying to address the OP’s question. She wanted help explaining why we are a “closed Communion”

But I welcome your thought about why he may feel that way. I don’t think I’ve criticized you sharing your perspective.

 

[TC3033]

I agree. I didn’t see the point of that questioning.

I’m sorry you’ve felt belittled. I’ve been trying to address the OP’s question. She wanted help explaining why we are a “closed Communion”

But I welcome your thought about why he may feel that way. I don’t think I’ve criticized you sharing your perspective.

Personally I don’t. It just seems like some keep challenging the open communion practice, maybe I’m reading too much into it. Either way, I’ll drop it and hope I am reading into it too much.

 

[Padres1969]

Why should I be forced to ask? Can’t I - being Spirit led - simply do so? After all, you don’t want to restrict the Spirit, right? And what about the first part - why can’t I spontaneously offer the Communion service at the Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian, nondenominational church? Why am I excluded from doing so?

I think you’re confusing participation in receiving with participation in the service itself.

 

[PJM]

Hey guys. So my boyfriend of one year is a Nondenominational Evangelical Free Christian, and he feels very discriminated against by the Catholic Church because he isn’t allowed to receive Communion. How do I explain to him in a gentle way why he can’t, and convince him he isn’t being “discriminated against”? Nothing I’ve tried has worked. The fact that we believe the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ is irrelevant to him. He thinks that he should be allowed to receive because he’s a Christian. I don’t know what to do or say anymore…

GREAT Question

Eucharist in Catholic Churches is one of SEVEN Sacraments, each instituted [directly or indirectly] by Jesus Himself.

Eucharist in NOT a memorial, a reminder, a symbol, or a sign, it Is, IT IS, Jesus [God] Himself

And ONLY the Catholic Church can make this happen both Validly & Licitly. Our Orthodox Brethren have the Sacraments Validly; BUT not licitly. Confirmation, Holy Orders and the Last Rites, like the Eucharist remain GIFTS fro Christ to HIS Catholic Church

It is the incentive to BOTH receive the KNOWN Sacrament of sin forgiveness and to actually and REALLY receive Jesus Christ ; REALLY and truly Present to Catholics in Holy Communion.

The Catholic Church demands a great deal more BUT gives in return the peace of mind, heart & soul KNOWING that our Sins HAVE been forgiven [Mt 16{18-19 & Jn 20:19*23] AND being unted with God Perosnally as a foretaste of heaven:thumbsup:

God Bless you both,
Patrick

 

[ffg]

Hey guys. So my boyfriend of one year is a Nondenominational Evangelical Free Christian, and he feels very discriminated against by the Catholic Church because he isn’t allowed to receive Communion. How do I explain to him in a gentle way why he can’t, and convince him he isn’t being “discriminated against”? Nothing I’ve tried has worked. The fact that we believe the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ is irrelevant to him. He thinks that he should be allowed to receive because he’s a Christian. I don’t know what to do or say anymore…

The substance change being irrelevant to him is probably fairly important info for you. Might want to find out what else is irrelevant to him, of which is important to you.

Perhaps because you don’t need an ID to get into churches (generally), it seems odd to say ‘welcome, but don’t do that’.

It’s actually quite normal. People don’t typically let friends have the run of the house when they are welcomed inside. Some households want shoes off, for example.

The Church teaches it is a sin for Catholics to receive Communion not in a state of Grace.

This should show him that it’s not just a ritual of ‘doing the same as the others’ (including other churches).

Take care,

Mike

 

[Erich]

That’s quite inaccurate. Christians from the beginning had different communities, with different practices and different authorities, spread throughout the known world.

Different communities? yes. Different practices? yes. Different authorities? not quite (i.e. local communities had local authorities (bishops/priests), but they were ultimately under the authority of the bishop of Rome)

This Bible Chrisitian Society newsletter makes some good points about salvation, Church teaching, etc. which are also applicable to this “different authorities” claim. In summary:

Consider 1 Cor 11:18-19: “*In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.”

*So, there were divisions among the Corinthian congregation. And, these divisions were such that they helped to reveal who had God’s approval. Which means, on the flip side, that there were those among the Corinthian congregation who did not have God’s approval.

Believers in an “invisible church of true believers” tend to also be believers in the notion that there are “essential” and “non-essential” doctrines and as long as we agree on the “essentials,” then we can have union with one another and we’re all saved. Problem is, who gets to decide what is an essential and what is a non-essential doctrine? And, since doctrines come from the Word of God, which part of the Word of God does one actually dare to call “non-essential?”

The notion that that we can be in union with those we have doctrinal disagreements with…that there can be true unity among those with doctrinal differences…those with different versions of what is and is not truth… is a false notion. 1 Cor 11:18-19 shows that divisions among Christians - the Corinthians being written to by Paul were all members of the Church… they were all Christians - cannot simply be ignored by using a contrived theological system which divides doctrines into essential vs. non-essential. Differences among Christians are serious matters that lead to some being approved by God and some not being approved by God.

Did the Apostles teach different doctrines to different people? The answer, of course, is “No.” The Apostles all taught the same doctrines…ALL the same doctrines. After all, Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit was to guide them into all truth. If they are guided into all truth, then they cannot help but teach identical doctrines…they cannot help but teach the same truths…to all the different peoples they came across. Again, from 1 Cor 11:18-19, it is obvious that there were those among the Corinthians who believed different doctrines. Who taught them these different doctrines, the Apostles? I don’t think so.

Well, if the Apostles didn’t teach different doctrines, then why is it okay for the pastors of today’s thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations to teach different doctrines one from another? And, if it wasn’t okay for the Corinthians to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that caused division within the Christian congregation…then why is it okay today for Protestants to hold to different beliefs…beliefs that cause division within Christianity?

 

[Memaw]

To my knowledge this has not presented itself. The onus would be on the honor of the person to not commune. But you are right, what are we going to do if we are presented with an obvious dilemma.

What would happen in the Catholic church if a new person that no one recognizes partook of the Eucharist and then later in the week admitted to someone in the church that they were a practicing homosexual? If that person was seen in line for the Eucharist again two weeks later what procedure would take place to close communion to him?

I have noticed that our Pastor at times refuses Communion to anyone who does not hold their hands properly or bow. He lays the Host back down and gives them a Blessing instead. I set right in front so I notice. He also talks quite often about the blessing of frequent Confession. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Padres1969]

I have noticed that our Pastor at times refuses Communion to anyone who does not hold their hands properly or bow. He lays the Host back down and gives them a Blessing instead. I set right in front so I notice. He also talks quite often about the blessing of frequent Confession. God Bless, Memaw

Bowing? There’s bowing during Roman Rite OF Eucharist? When did that happen? I mean I’ve been to a fair number of Catholic masses in my life including one as recently as 3 months ago, and the only ones I’ve seen bowing during when receiving Eucharist were Eastern Catholic in the Byzantine Rite.

 

[rcwitness]

Bowing? There’s bowing during Catholic Eucharist? When did that happen? I mean I’ve been to a fair number of Catholic masses in my life and the only ones I’ve seen bowing during were Eastern Catholic in the Byzantine Rite.

I think a head bow is common. But mainly saying “Amen” is most appropriate.

Either way, it certainly doesn’t suggest a person is in a state of grave sin. It may be “telling” to the pastor that the individual is not Catholic. I remember approaching Communion before becoming Catholic. I said, “Thank you.” He looked at me funny, and I just kept it, without eating. Later I gave it to a 3 yr old (daughter of a friend), and she put it on the ground. It is actually appropriate to put it to the ground.

Live and learn, grow in peace.

 

[SyroMalankara]

And what does interrupting the service have to do with open communion again? “praise music” (that’s a new one).

It has to do with wanting what is acceptable norms for you to be forced into a Catholic context, where your norms aren’t universal and do not apply. Open Communion is a phenomenon of multiple denominations, the Catholic Church existed before denominationalism and has rules that those not actually in communion with his bishop (due to excommunication, sin, heresy or refusal to accept his leadership) have no right to Communion. Has anything changed? Are non Catholics in Communion with the local Catholic bishop? If not, why pretend for that moment that you are?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I think you’re confusing participation in receiving with participation in the service itself.

Why make the distinction? Reception is only one kind of participating, why limit it, what if I want to do more without being a member or even a regular

 

[Padres1969]

Why make the distinction? Reception is only one kind of participating, why limit it, what if I want to do more without being a member or even a regular

Well practically if you’re not a regular or a member you’re not going to be scheduled to be an extraordinary Eucharistic minister or chalice bearer in advance, and you’re not scheduled and vested in advance of the service it wouldn’t be practical to do so in the middle of the liturgy.

But beyond that many open communion churches still require you to be a member of the church before you’ll be scheduled as a chalice bearer or extraordinary Eucharistic minister. Both for the practical reasons above, and to ensure they know you and that you’re going to comport yourself in an appropriate manner in the sacristy, chancel, etc… and with the consecrated bread (body) and wine (blood).

 

[Sy_Noe]

I have noticed that our Pastor at times refuses Communion to anyone who does not hold their hands properly or bow. He lays the Host back down and gives them a Blessing instead. I set right in front so I notice. He also talks quite often about the blessing of frequent Confession. God Bless, Memaw

Wow! The day I would be refused to receive Christ for not holding my hands properly would be the last time the priest would see me. And I’ve seen head bows on EWTN. But like Padres, I’ve been to countless Masses, in many different parishes and a few different states, and bowing I haven’t seen as required. “Amen” yes that is common.