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LDNCatholic said:
He was not a Muslim by the modern definition (i.e a follower of the Islamic faith as defined by the teachings of Muhammad and recorded withing the Qur’an) either.

To cheese_sdc, yes, you are right, the Arabian peninsula was primarily a pagan region, however other areas of North Africa, Southern Europe, Asia, and the Levant were not.

Anyway I meant no offence by those two comments I just can’t resist a good debate, one of my guilty pleasures. That said I do not feel the comment to Muslims was necessary. To all Christians I wish a joyous and blessed Easter, whether you’re celebrating now or next week. To all non Christians I ask that the Lord bless you too.
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Abraham was a Muslim by the simplest definition. Submission to God.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
oh that is such a false statment. Abraham was a Jew Sister Amy. God gave us enough evidence to prove this. If you want to know more, feel free to ask!👍

God Bless! Jesus Christ is risen!
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A Jew, really? Boy, oh, boy. This’ll be fun. Let’s see that “evidence.” LOL.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
You should be:)

I will admit to say that it will more appropriate to call Abraham an Hebrew, but that is only because the term Jew didn`t exist prior to the tribe. However, that is the ONLY difference between Jew and Hebrew. It is now time to shed a more insight of the truth:cool:

We all know the term Jew acended from the tribe Judah right? Well considering Abraham existed before the tribe, historians prefer him as a Hebrew. But where does this term come from? Its actually from Abraham great, great, great…ect grandfather whos name was Eber. This is where the term derived from. So

“Mordecai and Esther, from the tribe of Benjamin, were called “Jews,” as were all the exiles from all the tribes of Israel in all the provinces of Persia. (Esth. 2:5-7, 3:13) The remnant who returned from captivity consisted of “Jews,” **though its members came from different tribes. **(e.g., Ez. 4:23)
Some say that Abraham was not Jewish, because the term “Jew” does not appear until later in history, referring to the descendants of Judah. They then make a theological separation between “the Jews” and their fathers. But by that reasoning, neither would Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Moses, Aaron, Gideon, Samuel, or Jonah be Jewish. Nor would any of the descendants of Judah who lived more than twenty years before the exile of the northern kingdom, for the term “Jew” did not appear in the Bible until that time. (cf. 2 Kgs 16:6)”

“Nonetheless, the term “Jews” has been given to all those who are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.** In the Bible it is generally used synonymously with the term “Israel.”** By the time of Yeshua, the term “Jew” had become a universal designation for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants, regardless of their particular tribe or place of residence in Israel or the world.
“Jew” and “Hebrew” are used as equivalent terms. (cf. Jer. 34:9) If a man or woman is a Hebrew, then he or she is a Jew. A Jew is a Hebrew is an Israelite.”

This is a great site explaning it:elijahnet.net/Jews%20and%20Hebrews.html

education will set us free! Islam didn´t even exist prior to Mohammed that is a FACT! I one time took a list of Muslim Historians. With no surprise no Muslim historians even existed before the 700 hundreds! I wonder why…

“I am The Light, The Truth, and The Way…nobody comes to the Father expet through Me”-These are the words of Jesus Christ, the only Son of God. He Is Risen!! Happy Easter to all of you!
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Wow. Deliberate ignorance. Fascinating. You know good and well that Abraham was not a Jew, if he were then Arabs would be Jewish too, don’t you think?

Jews were descendants of Judah, whose father was Israel, whose father was Isaac, whose father was Abraham. You’ve just shown you (nor your sources apparently) don’t know the meaning of the word Jew in the first place since you’re happy to lump everyone together into a category to which they do not belong because you can’t find the correct designation. Abraham predates the Jews, predates Judaism, even predates Israel.

Ergo, he was not Jewish. Using the terms synonymously is nothing but sheer ignorance.
 
Pater_Familias said:
Of course I will and do worship and adore the GOD of Abraham 🙂 The question is which GOD do you serve or do you serve the prince of lies?

Ad Jesu per Mariam
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Eh? You mean the prince of lies who told you to worship a man? The one led you astray from God’s Law?

I worship the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Ishmael, the God of Jacob, the God of the 12 tribes of Israel. And I believe in all the revelation sent down from Him.
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
no…the term Jew didn´t exist when Abraham was alive. Did you even bother visitng the site I gave you. It gives a good explanation the difference between Jew and Hebrews. Its just the names and where it came from. Jews and Hebrews shared the same faith, that is a fact. Islam might have some things in common with Jedism but thats not enough to actually say Abraham was a Muslim.

You also fail to explain how come no Muslim historians existed before the 700 hundreds.

Oh and if you fail to prove that Jedism is a corrupted religion then Jews have every right to say that Abraham was a Jew.
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Do you not know anything about Judaism? Seems you’ve confused the Bible with Star Wars. Jedism?

Jews are descendents of the nation called Israel, the children of Israel, whom Moses led out of slavery in Egypt. Abraham lived far before all that, did not follow the Jewish laws which came from the Torah and from Moses. Not even close.

And meedo is right, the people before Abraham worshiped idols. He rejected their idol worship and turned to God. Which is why Sam wants to call him a ‘hanif.’ But that only means he was actually a Muslim.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Wow. Deliberate ignorance. Fascinating. You know good and well that Abraham was not a Jew, if he were then Arabs would be Jewish too, don’t you think?

Jews were descendants of Judah, whose father was Israel, whose father was Isaac, whose father was Abraham. You’ve just shown you (nor your sources apparently) don’t know the meaning of the word Jew in the first place since you’re happy to lump everyone together into a category to which they do not belong because you can’t find the correct designation. Abraham predates the Jews, predates Judaism, even predates Israel.

Ergo, he was not Jewish. Using the terms synonymously is nothing but sheer ignorance.
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Sister Amy, I know where you getting at. You`re absalutly right that Abraham predates Israel and also the tribe Judah. The point I was trying to make is Abraham practically predates the “term” Jew for he was more accuratly categorized as a Hebrew. There is not a faith difference between a Jew and a Hebrew. That is my point Sister, I really hope you understand:)

May God Bless you and your whole family.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Eh? You mean the prince of lies who told you to worship a man? The one led you astray from God’s Law?

I worship the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Ishmael, the God of Jacob, the God of the 12 tribes of Israel. And I believe in all the revelation sent down from Him.
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“Amen Amen I say to you…before Abraham was I AM”

Sister Amy with all due respect, please don`t call the seal of Prophets, our Lord, our Massiah, our King, and our God Jesus Christ the prince of lies. For Jesus Christ is NOT a liar, but the Prince of Peace. If you believe that Christianity is a sect started by a man who “suddenly” started teaching something different what Jesus thought, I beg you to open a new thread and provide evidence so we may see if this is indeed true. If you are unable to do it, stop spreading hatred among these boards.

peace be with you.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Do you not know anything about Judaism? Seems you’ve confused the Bible with Star Wars. Jedism?

Jews are descendents of the nation called Israel, the children of Israel, whom Moses led out of slavery in Egypt. Abraham lived far before all that, did not follow the Jewish laws which came from the Torah and from Moses. Not even close.

And meedo is right, the people before Abraham worshiped idols. He rejected their idol worship and turned to God. Which is why Sam wants to call him a ‘hanif.’ But that only means he was actually a Muslim.
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lol, I apologize for the mispelling.

you`re right Abraham was a muslim…but only in the adjective sense. (He in no way was a follower of Islam like Mohammed for Mohammed invented Islam) He served one God but Abraham wasn´t the first one. His Ancestors also had the common belief, obviously not all of them but like I stated earlier Abraham was a Hebrew which derived from one of his great great grandfathers name. The faith in 1 God traces back all the way to Adam. This faith was known as Jewdism because thats just how historans want to catogorize all of the Prophets. Which should cause no problems because Judah and Abraham didn´t have different faiths…just went by different names;)
 
Sister_Amy said:
What was his name before Jesus was born? Or did he not exist yet?
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Did Jesus exist yet? Well let us see what Jesus had to say about that Himself:

“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: ‘Father, the time has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people THAT HE MIGHT GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL THOSE YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory**I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN …” **

Yes Jesus did exist but He was only in bond with time when He took on flesh for the sake of Humanity which was about 2000 years ago. But like Saint John said, “through Him all things were made!”. Keep in mind that John was a diciple of Jesus, He knew Him personaly. This makes John also a muslim but only in the adjective sense for he submited to Jesus who is the Creator of all things. Mohammet came 600 years after Christ.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Abraham was a Muslim by the simplest definition. Submission to God.
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Yes. But that does not necessarily mean he ascribed to the same religion you profess. For that to be true one must assume that your theological beliefs are the closest to the truth. We do not believe that theory.

The word Muslim- ‘‘submitter’’- could then apply to us Christians as we believe that we submit to God.
 
LDNCatholic said:
Yes. But that does not necessarily mean he ascribed to the same religion you profess. For that to be true one must assume that your theological beliefs are the closest to the truth. We do not believe that theory.

The word Muslim- ‘‘submitter’’- could then apply to us Christians as we believe that we submit to God.
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well said.
 
Sister_Amy said:
We may all trace our ancestry to the same man, and he was neither a Christian, nor a Jew. His name was Abraham. I will follow the religion he followed, and I will worship the God he worshiped. Won’t you?
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We do. You follow your own made-up “god” instead. Or rather: Muhammed’s made-up “god”…
 
Sister_Amy said:
We may all trace our ancestry to the same man, and he was neither a Christian, nor a Jew. His name was Abraham. I will follow the religion he followed, and I will worship the God he worshiped. Won’t you?
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no … he was a monkey 😃
 
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