Non-Catholic friends, why do some (not all) - non-Catholics believe and disseminate the idea that the Catholic Church apostatized........

[wisdomseeker]

I find these discussions interesting. Non-Catholics will affirm that anyone who confesses with their mouth, and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord has eternal life. This of course means a life of obedience, and fruit will show in their lives. I have a problem with those who adhere to a “confession of Christ”, then lead a hedonist, or rebellious lifestyle, no matter what their church affiliation. A long time ago a wise man of faith cautioned me, “Beware of any church that says it is the only true church”. There are more than a few churches that fall into this category.
The issue of Truth is the Gospel of Christ. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Gospel, which frees men’s souls. At Ceasarea, the statement made by Jesus was profound, because the gates there held people captive, yet the Gospel cannot be kept out by any ‘gate’. People held captive by the ‘gates of Hell’, which do keep people bound, can be set free from this path of destruction by the freeing power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
As for the Apostacy of Catholics, I agree that there has not been a rejection of faith, and this term is ill-used. I think the issue most Protestants have is the extra-biblical doctrines that Rome has induced that are not biblical, nor were in the early church.
Merry Christmas to all. He was born to die for the sins of us all.
GodPilot

And just how would know the Truth except One Church tells you?

And just how do you know if you are being obedient to Christ if you dont know who is teaching the Truth?

The Gospel of Christ? and just who has the authority to enterpret the Gospel correctly?

Wise man to you, to me he is a foolish man because he doesnt know that Jesus found a Church with authority to teach the Truth to every man from age to age in this world. Is he the final authority to teach the Truth about the Gospel. the Gospel alone cannot teach since it needs the right the enterpretation. Do you have the right enterpretation?

Jesus said, the gates of hell wouldnt prevail against the Church, He didnt say the gospels. you accuse the CC of going outside the extra Biblical but you are the one inserting things outside the Gospel.

As Catholics we are free because we have assurance of the Truth since Jesus promised the HS to His Church to lead her into all truth. While protestants wrestling with enterpretation of the Bible to no avail. Do you believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ and can only be transformed by a true priest sent by the Church of the Living God, the Pillar and Bullwark of the Truth? And who is the rebellious ones but those who rebelled against His Church?

 

[joe370]

That’s all well and good, but what are your answers to the original post???

I find these discussions interesting. Non-Catholics will affirm that anyone who confesses with their mouth, and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord has eternal life. This of course means a life of obedience, and fruit will show in their lives. I have a problem with those who adhere to a “confession of Christ”, then lead a hedonist, or rebellious lifestyle, no matter what their church affiliation. A long time ago a wise man of faith cautioned me, “Beware of any church that says it is the only true church”. There are more than a few churches that fall into this category.
The issue of Truth is the Gospel of Christ. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Gospel, which frees men’s souls. At Ceasarea, the statement made by Jesus was profound, because the gates there held people captive, yet the Gospel cannot be kept out by any ‘gate’. People held captive by the ‘gates of Hell’, which do keep people bound, can be set free from this path of destruction by the freeing power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
As for the Apostacy of Catholics, I agree that there has not been a rejection of faith, and this term is ill-used. I think the issue most Protestants have is the extra-biblical doctrines that Rome has induced that are not biblical, nor were in the early church.
Merry Christmas to all. He was born to die for the sins of us all.
GodPilot

 

[joe370]

Hey Wisdomseeker…

And just how would know the Truth except One Church tells you?

And just how do you know if you are being obedient to Christ if you dont know who is teaching the Truth?

Excellent questions.

The Gospel of Christ? and just who has the authority to enterpret the Gospel correctly?

The church founded by Jesus Christ, and all scholars admit that that church is the Catholic Church. All Protestant churches have a founder and his name is not Jesus, but I do love and respect our separated brothers and sisters belonging to non-Catholic churches, even if some of them do not reciprocate; that’s what Jesus would want me to do.

Is he the final authority to teach the Truth about the Gospel. the Gospel alone cannot teach since it needs the right the enterpretation. Do you have the right enterpretation?

I believe that the church founded by Jesus has the God given authoritative right to interpret sacred scripture by virtue of the biblical fact that the holy spirit is forever guiding Jesus’ church into all truth.

Jesus said, the gates of hell wouldnt prevail against the Church, He didnt say the gospels.

Just as the bible refers to Jesus’ church as the pillar and foundation of truth, it also says that (God’s worst enemy) - the gates of hell, will never prevail against His Church. As a former non-Catholic I often wondered why the bible didn’t call the bible the pillar and foundation of truth, or why the bible didn’t say that the gates of hell will never prevail against the bible. There is a reason why Paul said what he said below:

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

The irony is: almost all non-Catholic, sola scriptura advocate, submit to their church leadership, all the while claiming that the practice of sola scriptura, via private interpretation of the bible, is to be adhered to, which seems a bit hypocritical.

you accuse the CC of going outside the extra Biblical but you are the one inserting things outside the Gospel.

And from his sola scriptura point of view, inserting things, outside the Gospel, is a real no -no.

As Catholics we are free because we have assurance of the Truth since Jesus promised the HS to His Church to lead her into all truth.

Agreed. The problem with most non-Catholic SS advocates, is the fact that they won’t admit that the CC was founded by Jesus, but at the same time, when asked, they won’t provide me with the name of the man who did supposedly found the CC, just as I can do with every non-Catholic church. This was critical to my conversion to the Catholic Church.

While protestants wrestling with enterpretation of the Bible to no avail. Do you believe that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ and can only be transformed by a true priest sent by the Church of the Living God, the Pillar and Bullwark of the Truth?

Perhaps we could direct him to the OP.

 

[joe370]

Godpilot, If “scripture only” is all sufficient for each and every Christian, via individual interpretation, then where is that taught in the bible? 2 Timothy, of course, correctly speaks of the outstanding value of the Word of God, but it does not even remotely suggest that “scripture only” is all sufficient for each and every Christian via individual interpretation.

Moreover, the Bible itself never declares (or even provides criteria) for knowing exactly which writings are to be considered “scripture.” The table of contents was put there by the Catholic church. To trust what is written in scripture is to trust the Catholic Church, even if unwittingly.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hey Wisdomseeker…
Excellent questions.

The church founded by Jesus Christ, and all scholars admit that that church is the Catholic Church. All Protestant churches have a founder and his name is not Jesus, but I do love and respect our separated brothers and sisters belonging to non-Catholic churches, even if some of them do not reciprocate; that’s what Jesus would want me to do.

I believe that the church founded by Jesus has the God given authoritative right to interpret sacred scripture by virtue of the biblical fact that the holy spirit is forever guiding Jesus’ church into all truth. \

Just as the bible refers to Jesus’ church as the pillar and foundation of truth, it also says that (God’s worst enemy) - the gates of hell, will never prevail against His Church. As a former non-Catholic I often wondered why the bible didn’t call the bible the pillar and foundation of truth, or why the bible didn’t say that the gates of hell will never prevail against the bible. There is a reason why Paul said what he said below:

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

The irony is: almost all non-Catholic, sola scriptura advocate, submit to their church leadership, all the while claiming that the practice of sola scriptura, via private interpretation of the bible, is to be adhered to, which seems a bit hypocritical.

And from his sola scriptura point of view, inserting things, outside the Gospel, is a real no -no.
Agreed. The problem with most non-Catholic SS advocates, is the fact that they won’t admit that the CC was founded by Jesus, but at the same time, when asked, they won’t provide me with the name of the man who did supposedly found the CC, just as I can do with every non-Catholic church. This was critical to my conversion to the Catholic Church.

Perhaps we could direct him to the OP.

Amen! Blessed be God for your conversion who allowed you to see the Truth.

I was just addressing his statements. I didnt mean to diverge the thread.

 

[joe370]

Amen! Blessed be God for your conversion who allowed you to see the Truth.

I was just addressing his statements. I didnt mean to diverge the thread.

That’s cool brother; no non-Catholic will address the specific questions I’ve asked in my original post, anyway.

 

[Sylvan]

I am a converted Catholic, but I do remember the issues that I had against the Church until I studied deeper, and I know these to be at the top of most protestant anti-catholic sentiments:

1. Most protestants, to one degree or another feel that the statues in Catholic Church’s statues and artwork directly violate the 2nd Commandment against graven images (which flourished just before the time of the Reformation.
2. That calling priests by the title “Father” violates the scripture that admonishes against calling any man on earth “father” - saying we have one Father only, that being in heaven.
3. Most, but not all, protestant denominations feel that the priesthood itself is non-scriptural and that it is a barrier, not a link, between believers and their God.
4. Many protestants are turned off by the formulaic prayers Catholics use. As if protestants pray to God, but Catholics only “say prayers” rather than spontaneously communicating with God.
5. And, perhaps most of all, many Protestants do not believe that the keys given to Saint Peter would be inherited by the next “pope”.

There are others, but this is a good cross-section.

 

[Sylvan]

Oops! I am new to this site and did not notice that this thread seems to have been dormant for quite some time now…

Moving on…

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Oops! I am new to this site and did not notice that this thread seems to have been dormant for quite some time now…

Moving on…

It falls into the the 6 month time range.
Carry on

 

[Waiting]

I am a converted Catholic, but I do remember the issues that I had against the Church until I studied deeper, and I know these to be at the top of most protestant anti-catholic sentiments:

1. Most protestants, to one degree or another feel that the statues in Catholic Church’s statues and artwork directly violate the 2nd Commandment against graven images (which flourished just before the time of the Reformation.
2. That calling priests by the title “Father” violates the scripture that admonishes against calling any man on earth “father” - saying we have one Father only, that being in heaven.
3. Most, but not all, protestant denominations feel that the priesthood itself is non-scriptural and that it is a barrier, not a link, between believers and their God.
4. Many protestants are turned off by the formulaic prayers Catholics use. As if protestants pray to God, but Catholics only “say prayers” rather than spontaneously communicating with God.
5. And, perhaps most of all, many Protestants do not believe that the keys given to Saint Peter would be inherited by the next “pope”.

There are others, but this is a good cross-section.

You must have received answers to these Protestant objections when you entered the Church, but I’ll submit some short answers.

1. God’s commandmment was for the Jes not to worship the idols of the pagans. Catholics do not worship statues. They are like the pictures we have – reminders of those we love.
2. What do you call your father? Clearly Jesus was not saying to call your father Jim or Pete, etc. We call priests Father because they are our true spiritual fathers.
3. The Jews had a priesthood to minister to the people’s spiritual needs. So do Catholics.
4. Catholics pray spontaneously, too. Formulaic prayers are an aid in prayer.
5. Do Protestants really believe that Jesus would make Peter the head of His Church and then just hope that everything worked out well after he was gone? That would be totally out of character for Him. God would not leave His Church to possible chaos. He instituted the papacy when He chose Peter as the first Pope.