Non-Catholic husband wants a vasectomy

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1ke said:
I think she is repulsed by his “announcement” that he was going to “ensure” they don’t have any more children. This was not consultative, this was a unilateral decision on HIS part and he is imposing it on her through mutilating himself.

HE is the one doing the rejecting-- rejecting her fertility, rejecting fatherhood, rejecting their FUTURE, and rejecting her feelings about future children.

How is he rejecting fatherhood? With this new child, he will be a father three times over. And how is he rejecting their future? In his eyes, he is acting to secure the future of his family.

“Mutilating himself?” Just a bit dramatic, don’t you think? :rolleyes:

She said: However, since I discovered we were expecting our 3rd child (due this September) my husband has announced that he is going to have a vasectomy to ensure we do not have any more children.

THAT is repulsive.

From his (non-Catholic) perspective, THAT is being responsible.
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What she is saying, in effect, is that he is not suitable for her because he is not Catholic, but as long as he pretends in the ways that are important to her, she’ll ignore that.
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I don’t think that at all. I’m in a similar situation and have explained to my husband why I feel this way and how it will affect us if he were to follow through. Its not about him pretending - its about him respecting her and her Faith. Marriage is about respect - mutual and self.

I don’t know your husband, but I do know mine. He is unbaptized (Christian or Catholic) and has always lived a life of ‘secular pleasure’. When we met, he was immediately struck by how important my Faith-life was to me. That’s something he knew coming into the relationship/marriage. His respect for me lead him to sacrifice for me. My respect for him has lead me to not preach and drag him to Church (although I fail at that sometimes). Anyway, what I did (I don’t know if it’ll work for you or not) was to thoroughly research all the options (he wanted to at least use ABC if not the big V) both medically & spiritually. I laid it all out for him in an unbiased (as well as I could) way. I pointed out the failure rates of the various ABC (including V). I pointed out what I believe/was taught. Then I told him that since he’s not Catholic he’s not bound by my rules, but I am. I told him I would not be a part of the process (for the V), but I would still love & respect him. I told him I would not use contraceptives myself (hormonal or condoms), but if he chose to do so, it was up to him. I told him how I thought I would feel if he did use ABC (V or otherwise) and tried to explain why. So far, he’s not used any ABC & we’re now pregnant w/ our 6th in 2 years.

Good luck & God bless!
 
GhostMan

I’m not sure what you mean. I am not “repulsed” by anything about my husband, including his reasons for wanting a vasectomy. I don’t know where/how you got that impression.

I understand why he wants to take this step and can sympathise with him. As he does not come from the same theological background (he was baptised and confirmed into the Church in Wales - a branch of High Anglican Church, although he had not been an active member of his own faith for a long time when we met) he has no reason to consider contraception or sterilisation as morally questionable. He does believe that the use of contraception or sterilisation to limit the size of ones family or even to avoid having children altogether if one does not want children is being responsible. It makes sense to hiim and I can follow his logic even if it is at odds with Humanae Vitae.

The assumption that you (and possibly some others) appear to be making is to believe that I want to have more children/a large family. Actually, I don’t. I thought I had explained earlier that if it were up to me I would not be pregnant now and would certainly not do this again. This current pregnancy was unintended. We had been using NFP and this “failure” (in his eyes) is what has tipped the balance and made him decide to have a vasectomy. (Please note that I do not hold any negative feelings towards our unborn son - I consider him to be gift and blessing, even if he is a gift I didn’t ASK for!)

If I am repulsed by anything in this situation, it is myself and my own reactions - I can’t help HOW I feel, I can only control how I use those feelings. As I said before I fear that should he have a vasectomy I will feel spiritually and sexually uncomfortable and that this discomfort will inevitably impact on our relationship. I don’t KNOW this will happen (perhaps I’ll be perfectly capable of putting it all behind me) but I instinctively feel that it is a real possibility.

Should I tell him about my fears or would this just be me “imposing my beliefs on him” by using emotional blackmail? You seem to think that the answer is easy, I’m sorry but I find it to be much more difficult.

If I do tell him about my feelings and fears then I risk his feeling that I am putting intolerable pressure on him (which I don’t want to do). If I don’t tell him and my fears are realised then I risk his feeling betrayed that I had not raised my fears with him beforehand.

What you seem to be suggesting is that I should keep my mouth shut, close my eyes and ‘think of England’. I should just ignore my own feelings and submit to sexual relations with my husband after the vasectomy regardless of how I feel. It seems that you are telling me that not only my actions but my FEELINGS are wrong and that I need to change how I feel. You may be right, but how do you suggest I go about changing how I feel rather than changing what I do?
 
Thank you to everyone who has offered prayers for us. As I said, I am sure that our prayers will be answered, eventually.

My intention in making the OP was to seek insight from others - perhaps others who have experienced a similar situation. Thank you to those who have shared their insight/stories with me. They have strengthened my hopes that all will be well.

LongingForLight. Thank you very, very much for your kind words of advice and encouragement. You more than anyone else I have spoken with seems to have understood me and our situation. There is nothing you have said so far that jars or does not seem to apply to our situation. Most of all I do recognise that I will not be able to let this matter rest comfortably in God’s hands until I have spoken to a priest. I would not have begun posting here however if that was an easy thing for me to do right now. Unfortunately, my parish is currently without a priest as Fr M has been taken ill and is being cared for by the Little Sisters of the Poor. We are currently served by a circle of retired priests who come to the parish on Sundays and Holy Days but the presbytery remains unoccupied. I really do not know how to approach another priest or another parish. I confided in a close friend today that I am troubled by something and that I feel really need to speak with a priest. She suggested that, in the absence of Fr M, I could call the local Franciscans of the Renewal and speak with one of their priests.
 
So if you don’t say anything, and he goes through with it, and you have all these stuffed feelings -then what? You hold it in, your marriage suffers, your resentment builds, you finally blurt it out and your husband says “You’re telling me this now? Why didn’t you tell me before I had the surgery?” If you’re feeling this now, you think this will go away?

As far as NFP, did you take a class, have you been following the guidlines? If you fudge the rules, if you take chances, if you don’t keep good records it’s not an NFP failure, it’s a human error.

Maybe my marriage relationship is different but I just can not imagine not being able to share what is troubling me with my husband. I’m not saying make accusations or place blame I’m saying be honest.

As in “Honey I’m really worried about the effects this will have on our intimate life. I’m afraid that instead of fully giving myself to you I’ll be haunted by this choice your making that goes against what I hold dear to my heart.That it will be on my mind with each and every act and that’s not what I want at all. I’m worried that I’ll feel that by doing this I will feel that our intimacy is now cheapened into just an act of lust, instead of giving ourselves fully to each other. I realize this is not what you believe, but it is something that I believe. This is not something easily reversed and I need to at least tell you whats in my heart before you through with it. I don’t want anything to come between us. I’m willing to work personally with our NFP teacher to find out why NFP isn’t working the way it should be for us. I willing to follow it diligently and to the letter, if you’ll take some time to reconsider.”

If we can’t be honest with our own husbands there are bigger issues than sterilization going on.
 
JanetF said:
A reputable urologist will REQUIRE the spouse to sign consent before a vasectomy is performed. A reputable urologist will require an office visit prior to the surgery to discuss the risks and benefits of the procedure to BOTH of you.
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I don’t know how a urologist could impose a spousal consent without violating HIPAA. A law requiring that a woman have her spouse’s consent before she could get an abortion was overturned by the Supreme Court in Danforth. While a private physician is different from a state law, this seems to be awfully similar.
 
Simple. Tell him no working equipment means NO WORKING THE EQUIPMENT.

If you got married in the church he took a VOW to ACCEPT children willingly. If he gets a vascetamy he is BRAKING HIS VOWS. If you got married outside the church then you will have to state your feelings to him. If he goes through with the procedure he is basically telling you that your feelings do not matter.

You as a Catholic can not condone nor approve of this type of action. Maybe marraige counseling?
 
I probably should have said last night that I have decided that I really MUST talk to my husband - honestly, gently and lovingly. As rayne89 says holding it all in is only going to cause more problems in the long run.

Thank you to everyone for your prayers and advice - especially LongingForLight whose advice has helped me to formulate HOW to talk to him.

DH has been travelling a lot recently. He and only got home last night and is full of cold (i.e. “man-flu”!) so I don’t think it would be right or fair to raise this difficult subject with him until he his feeling better.
 
Moon1234 - I’d like you to stop and think what effect it would have on a marriage (anymarriage) for one party to say “no working equipment means NO WORKING THE EQUIPMENT”.

The gift of sexuality and sexual relations was given by God to unite man and woman not just to procreate. Using your logic then once I have gone through the menopause I should no longer have sexual relations with my husband as my “equipment” would no longer be working. Issuing threats or using emotional blackmail is what I am trying to avoid here.

Incidentally, we were married in a full nuptial Mass in the Catholic church I attended throughout my childhood.

As for him BREAKING his vows…I doubt he would see it the way you and I do. From his perspective he made a vow to ACCEPT children, he did not make a vow to not avoid conceiving children nor did he make any vow to positively try to have a large family - to you and me this is wriggling/copping out/semantics, to him it is logical and reasonable (which of course is VERY convenient for him!).:rolleyes:

We went to marriage counselling last year as his fear of pregnancy/more children was already causing him to withdraw physically and emotionally from me and bringing problems into our physical relationship. He and I both thought that we had come to terms with matters. He was having difficulty trusting ME to monitor my cycle and keep accurate NFP charts. I was having difficulties with feeling emotionally rejected during my fertile time as he would avoid ALL physical and emotional contact with me unless he knew it was “safe” to have sex. Eventually he made the decision to trust me and the accuracy/reliabilty of NFP. However, the fact that I am now pregnant again has sealed it in his mind that either he can’t trust me to keep accurate records or he can’t trust NFP to protect him from his fears - either way he is not prepared to take the risk anymore. This is HIS decision to make and HIS soul that is on the line, NOT mine. I do NOT either condone or approve of his taking this action but that does not mean I cannot sympathise with why he wants to do it. Or do you believe that I must cease to love him for even considering taking action against Church teaching?
 
moon1234 said:
Simple. Tell him no working equipment means NO WORKING THE EQUIPMENT.

If you got married in the church he took a VOW to ACCEPT children willingly. If he gets a vascetamy he is BRAKING HIS VOWS. If you got married outside the church then you will have to state your feelings to him. If he goes through with the procedure he is basically telling you that your feelings do not matter.

You as a Catholic can not condone nor approve of this type of action. Maybe marraige counseling?
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She is not required to abstain from intimacy if her husband goes through the procedure. What you recommend does sound exactly like blackmail. There’s a huge difference between sharing what’s in your heart and giving ultimatums. I’m sure this man loves his wife very much and that fear is what is driving his decision.
 
rayne89 said:
She is not required to abstain from intimacy if her husband goes through the procedure. What you recommend does sound exactly like blackmail. There’s a huge difference between sharing what’s in your heart and giving ultimatums. I’m sure this man loves his wife very much and that fear is what is driving his decision.
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Wise words.
 
Just as an aside, check out dontfixit.org . That contains a lot of useful information on the many possible side effects of getting a vasectomy. I passed the information along to my Protestant relatives who were thinking of it. It was certainly enough to horrify my Protestant mother! :eek: Some of what I read made me feel uncomfortable, and I’m a woman! :eek:
 
I am sorry if I sound harsh; I guess that comes from a) not being a woman on a forum with a clear majority of female posters, and b) not sugar coating things I feel strongly about.

I do believe, from the OP and several follow-ups, that you will be drastically increasing the religious gulf between you and your husband if you impose your religious values on him. i say that coming from a marriage where my wife left the True Faith and joined a church that is christian, but lack the fullness of the truth. When she tries to impose her religion on the family - which is very rare - it again reminds me of our loss as a couple and a family.

Whether you see it or not, you are rejecting him because he is not Catholic enough for you. Read your posts from his perspective and see if you can see it in the words. You, like me, are in a marriage with someone of another (or, none, I am not sure of your husband’s faith situation - it is not clear from the posts) faith. We cannot simply demand they follow our conscience, understanding of the Faith, or practices.

You complain that when you use NFP and are in the fertile cycle, he stays away from you. What you did not communicate to me was that you understand the level of attempt that he has made. He used the system you preferred and had to work hard to keep his desires at bay even though there was no clear religious command to him to use this system. Did you ever tell him how much you appreciated his attempts to please you in this? Did you make him feel even worse by telling him he was rejecting you at these times? Did you encourage him or discourage him.

Frankly, as the party to whom NFP was the most important it was incumbent upon you to go over and above in encouragement. He was accommodating your religious needs here. if all that got him was an angry wife, I can see how he is discouraged.

Perhaps I’m reading too much into some of your comments. I accept that. But, I also see evidence of a man who respects his wife’s religion and loves her. So, why now has he taken this decision on? There is something going on in his head that you either do not know or are not telling us. I do not get the sense he is a callous man just making a decision because he can impose his will.
 
Sillara said:
Just as an aside, check out dontfixit.org . That contains a lot of useful information on the many possible side effects of getting a vasectomy. I passed the information along to my Protestant relatives who were thinking of it. It was certainly enough to horrify my Protestant mother! :eek: Some of what I read made me feel uncomfortable, and I’m a woman! :eek:
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Haven’t checked this website, but it might include some of the information I heard not that
long ago: a rise in prostrate cancer in men who had vasectomies. Also I read that the
vasectomies posed a risk for women as well. (From not having some of the protective
qualities of sperm.) I’m sorry I don’t remember where I read it and don’t have time to
surf the web.
A couple I knew well went through marital difficulties and eventually divorce. Their priest
told him that it was okay, they had a good number of children (6)! She felt very conflicted
about it, but he went and had it anyway. Both were Catholics, but gradually he stopped
going to church. (And told the teens in the family that they didn’t have to go if they didn’t
feel like it!) So they were no longer parenting “together”, he became depressed, and had
a number of physical problems, including prostrate problems and later prostrate cancer.

I know that this is just one family but please look at the bigger picture or try to convey
to your husband the bigger or long term consequences.
 
rayne89 said:
She is not required to abstain from intimacy if her husband goes through the procedure. What you recommend does sound exactly like blackmail. There’s a huge difference between sharing what’s in your heart and giving ultimatums. I’m sure this man loves his wife very much and that fear is what is driving his decision.
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I understand the sensitive nature here, but if you always comprimise your faith, then he will always take advantage of you. Your duty to obey your husband ends when he asks you to do or say something that violates God’s law.

He is making a choice that will forever alter the total giving of each to other in your marriage. Every time you make love you will be lacking a giving of him to you.

This is a difficult situation he has put you in. I would highly suggest you contact your Bishop’s office and ask for guidance.
 
GhostMan said:
I am sorry if I sound harsh; I guess that comes from a) not being a woman on a forum with a clear majority of female posters, and b) not sugar coating things I feel strongly about.

I do believe, from the OP and several follow-ups, that you will be drastically increasing the religious gulf between you and your husband if you impose your religious values on him. i say that coming from a marriage where my wife left the True Faith and joined a church that is christian, but lack the fullness of the truth. When she tries to impose her religion on the family - which is very rare - it again reminds me of our loss as a couple and a family.

Whether you see it or not, you are rejecting him because he is not Catholic enough for you. Read your posts from his perspective and see if you can see it in the words. You, like me, are in a marriage with someone of another (or, none, I am not sure of your husband’s faith situation - it is not clear from the posts) faith. We cannot simply demand they follow our conscience, understanding of the Faith, or practices.

You complain that when you use NFP and are in the fertile cycle, he stays away from you. What you did not communicate to me was that you understand the level of attempt that he has made. He used the system you preferred and had to work hard to keep his desires at bay even though there was no clear religious command to him to use this system. Did you ever tell him how much you appreciated his attempts to please you in this? Did you make him feel even worse by telling him he was rejecting you at these times? Did you encourage him or discourage him.

Frankly, as the party to whom NFP was the most important it was incumbent upon you to go over and above in encouragement. He was accommodating your religious needs here. if all that got him was an angry wife, I can see how he is discouraged.

Perhaps I’m reading too much into some of your comments. I accept that. But, I also see evidence of a man who respects his wife’s religion and loves her. So, why now has he taken this decision on? There is something going on in his head that you either do not know or are not telling us. I do not get the sense he is a callous man just making a decision because he can impose his will.
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Doesn’t sound harsh. I think you make excellent points.
 
Some are making this a Catholic issue. I would say the exact same thing to a Protestant or even to an Athiest couple - one half of a couple should not make such a profound decision alone. Married people share, or they will not stay married.
 
kage_ar said:
Some are making this a Catholic issue. I would say the exact same thing to a Protestant or even to an Athiest couple - one half of a couple should not make such a profound decision alone. Married people share, or they will not stay married.
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For the husband, I agree. He should not take this step without consulting his wife and getting her approval. Or, at least her consent that she disagree, but she understand why he feels compelled to do so.

The “Catholic” thing here, for lack of a better word, is my contention that the OP is rejecting her husband because he is not Catholic enough for her. I admit that is a stretch for some to accept. We’re limited to the words we see her present. From those, I see that her primary object seems to be her faith. This is from the OP:
What I haven’t told him is how deeply I am going to be affected by his having a vasectomy. I am concerned that I will not be able to enjoy our love life anymore as I will be plagued by the knowledge that we are no longer open to life and I suspect I will feel used and degraded. I certainly will not feel the same way that I used to.
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These are very Catholic words; we’re all familiar with the tenor and tone. Very few non-Catholics would word something this way.

Later she say:
On the other hand, even without saying anything directly to him the effect is likely to be the same in any event as I am sure that I’m not going to feel comfortable having sex with him if he goes through with this. Basically, I won’t want to have sex with him anymore as I’ll FEEL that I am participating in his sin (even though as far as I have been able to gather the Church’s view is that I am not culpable). That is not to say that I won’t desire him or love him but I know that I will FEEL sinful making love to him - and that can’t be good for our marriage.
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She feels that she will be sinning based on his unilateral decision. We all know this goes against the teaching of the Catholic Church; she is not sinning by participating in sex with her husband he - without her consent - get a vasectomy.

From the tone of these posts, and the fact she is so devout in her faith, I concluded that part of the problem is she really, really wants him to be Catholic. When he cooperates, like doing NFP, things are fine. When he exercises his own religious beliefs, she then takes what sin she thinks he might incur and projects it onto herself. In some sense this feels overly scrupulous.

So, in summary, I believe his actions are wrong and her attitude is wrong. I further believe that if he goes through with it, she will begin to push him away. He will attribute it to her Catholic-ness, not her scrupulous behavior. The religious gulf will widen. Her lack of desire for him will be palpable, he will harden himself and move away emotionally.

In short: disaster.
 
GhostMan said:
For the husband, I agree. He should not take this step without consulting his wife and getting her approval. Or, at least her consent that she disagree, but she understand why he feels compelled to do so.

The “Catholic” thing here, for lack of a better word, is my contention that the OP is rejecting her husband because he is not Catholic enough for her. I admit that is a stretch for some to accept. We’re limited to the words we see her present. From those, I see that her primary object seems to be her faith. This is from the OP:

These are very Catholic words; we’re all familiar with the tenor and tone. Very few non-Catholics would word something this way.

Later she say:

She feels that she will be sinning based on his unilateral decision. We all know this goes against the teaching of the Catholic Church; she is not sinning by participating in sex with her husband he - without her consent - get a vasectomy.

From the tone of these posts, and the fact she is so devout in her faith, I concluded that part of the problem is she really, really wants him to be Catholic. When he cooperates, like doing NFP, things are fine. When he exercises his own religious beliefs, she then takes what sin she thinks he might incur and projects it onto herself. In some sense this feels overly scrupulous.

So, in summary, I believe his actions are wrong and her attitude is wrong. I further believe that if he goes through with it, she will begin to push him away. He will attribute it to her Catholic-ness, not her scrupulous behavior. The religious gulf will widen. Her lack of desire for him will be palpable, he will harden himself and move away emotionally.

In short: disaster.
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Which is specifically why the Church strongly recommends AGAINST marrying a non-catholic. This issue comes up a LOT with non-catholics. The only other religious groups I can think of that really are open to life are Muslims and FLDS. The first is a very strong pill for anyone to swollow. The second, if plural marraige is involved, is not even legal in this country or in the eyes of the Church.
 
GhostMan said:
For the husband, I agree. He should not take this step without consulting his wife and getting her approval. Or, at least her consent that she disagree, but she understand why he feels compelled to do so.

The “Catholic” thing here, for lack of a better word, is my contention that the OP is rejecting her husband because he is not Catholic enough for her. I admit that is a stretch for some to accept. We’re limited to the words we see her present. From those, I see that her primary object seems to be her faith. This is from the OP:

These are very Catholic words; we’re all familiar with the tenor and tone. Very few non-Catholics would word something this way.

Later she say:

She feels that she will be sinning based on his unilateral decision. We all know this goes against the teaching of the Catholic Church; she is not sinning by participating in sex with her husband he - without her consent - get a vasectomy.

From the tone of these posts, and the fact she is so devout in her faith, I concluded that part of the problem is she really, really wants him to be Catholic. When he cooperates, like doing NFP, things are fine. When he exercises his own religious beliefs, she then takes what sin she thinks he might incur and projects it onto herself. In some sense this feels overly scrupulous.

So, in summary, I believe his actions are wrong and her attitude is wrong. I further believe that if he goes through with it, she will begin to push him away. He will attribute it to her Catholic-ness, not her scrupulous behavior. The religious gulf will widen. Her lack of desire for him will be palpable, he will harden himself and move away emotionally.

In short: disaster.
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**Well thanks for this little nugget of advice, GhostMan. My marriage is doomed. No point in trying to talk to him or anyone else for that matter then.
Thanks for your help. I hope your own mixed marriage fares better than mine did.
Lillibut
xx
**
 
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