Non-Catholic organizations

[P_Belden]

Does the Catholic church allow Catholics to join Masonic organizations such as Jobs Daughters and Eastern Star?

 

[JD27076]

I’m not familiar with Masonic rituals/sacraments, but from the threads I seen, it’s a big
NO!

Don’t ask me why, someone else could elaborate, I’m just telling you the Catholic Church does not allow it.

 

[robwar]

no absolutely not! Catholic are not to belong to any of these groups.

 

[benjammin]

No way. Instead, join the Knights of Columbus (if you are a guy). I wish I knew what organizations there were for women, but I’m sure there are many. Masonic organizations aren’t compatible with catholicism (in spite of what some “catholic” masons say)

 

[thistle]

Does the Catholic church allow Catholics to join Masonic organizations such as Jobs Daughters and Eastern Star?

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

DECLARATION
CONCERNING STATUS OF CATHOLICS
BECOMING FREEMASONS

On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations.

Since the said letter has become public and has given rise to erroneous and tendentious interpretations, this Congregation, without prejudice to the eventual norms of the new Code, issues the following confirmation and clarification:

1. the present canonical discipline remains in full force and has not been modified in any way;
2. consequently, neither the excommunication nor the other penalties envisaged have been abrogated;
3. what was said in the aforesaid letter as regards the interpretation to be given to the canon in question should be understood – as the Congregation intended – merely as a reminder of the general principles of interpretation of penal laws for the solution of the cases of individual persons which may be submitted to the judgment of ordinaries. It was not, however, the intention of the Congregation to permit Episcopal Conferences to issue public pronouncements by way of a judgment of a general character on the nature of Masonic associations, which would imply a derogation from the aforesaid norms.

Rome, from the Office of the S. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 17 February 1981.

Franjo Cardinal Seper
Prefect

Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium
  Secretary

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

DECLARATION
CONCERNING STATUS OF CATHOLICS
BECOMING FREEMASONS

On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations.…/QUOTE]
Unless you know which aspects of Freemasonry are incompatible with Catholicism it is impossible to determine what a “similar association” is. So where can I find out what those incompatible aspects are?

 

[thistle]

thistle;9524006:

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

DECLARATION
CONCERNING STATUS OF CATHOLICS
BECOMING FREEMASONS

On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations.

…/QUOTE]
Unless you know which aspects of Freemasonry are incompatible with Catholicism it is impossible to determine what a “similar association” is. So where can I find out what those incompatible aspects are?

The OP was asking about specific Masonic organisations. They are forbidden as are any other Masonic organisations. The fact that an organisation is Masonic makes it incompatible. Trying to look at particular aspects of these organisations is irrelevant.
Freemasonry is anti-Catholic specifically and anti-Christian in general.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle;9524275:

The OP was asking about specific Masonic organisations. They are forbidden as are any other Masonic organisations. The fact that an organisation is Masonic makes it incompatible. Trying to look at particular aspects of these organisations is irrelevant.
Freemasonry is anti-Catholic specifically and anti-Christian in general.

While it is true that the OP’s question was only about Masonic organizations, the quote of cannon 2335 mentions “similar organizations”. How am I to understand that cannon if I don’t consider what aspects of Freemasonry make it incompatible?

 

[thistle]

thistle;9526158:

While it is true that the OP’s question was only about Masonic organizations, the quote of cannon 2335 mentions “similar organizations”. How am I to understand that cannon if I don’t consider what aspects of Freemasonry make it incompatible?

Freemasonry is anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic specifically and it is out to destroy the Catholic Church. What is hard to understand about that?
Any organisation, whether Freemasons or not, that have similar views is forbidden for Catholics to be members of.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle;9526396:

Freemasonry is anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic specifically and it is out to destroy the Catholic Church. What is hard to understand about that?
Any organisation, whether Freemasons or not, that have similar views is forbidden for Catholics to be members of.

I do not dispute the judgement that Freemasonry is contrary to Catholic beliefs. But it is not altogether obvious so that you can say “what is so hard to understand about that”. I read the Wikipedia article on Freemasonry and I did not see that Freemasonry is out to destroy the Catholic Church. They may be, but it is not something you can just assume everyone knows.

So if I follow your suggestion correctly, I am to interpret cannon 2335 as forbidding membership in any organization that is openly anti-Catholic, where the determination of whether they are anti-Catholic is left up to me. Except for Freemasonry, which is already explicitly decided by the Church. Is that how I am to follow that rule? Now do you see why I asked for specific aspects of the organization that I can look for? Just saying “avoid anti-Catholic organizations” is too general to be of any use.

 

[thistle]

thistle;9526467:

I do not dispute the judgement that Freemasonry is contrary to Catholic beliefs. But it is not altogether obvious so that you can say “what is so hard to understand about that”. I read the Wikipedia article on Freemasonry and I did not see that Freemasonry is out to destroy the Catholic Church. They may be, but it is not something you can just assume everyone knows.

So if I follow your suggestion correctly, I am to interpret cannon 2335 as forbidding membership in any organization that is openly anti-Catholic, where the determination of whether they are anti-Catholic is left up to me. Except for Freemasonry, which is already explicitly decided by the Church. Is that how I am to follow that rule? Now do you see why I asked for specific aspects of the organization that I can look for? Just saying “avoid anti-Catholic organizations” is too general to be of any use.

Why is that too general? If an organisation is specifically anti-Catholic then you can’t be a member. Are you suggesting that organisations which are not Freemasons but nevertheless anti-Catholic might be okay to join?

I don’t look to Wikipedia for teachings of the Church. If you want specifics then read The Papal Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII - 1892 which is** still valid and in force**, and the two doccuments which I already quoted in an earlier post state there is no change to the Church’s position on Freemasonry.

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ms3.htm

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle;9526752:

Why is that too general? If an organisation is specifically anti-Catholic then you can’t be a member. Are you suggesting that organisations which are not Freemasons but nevertheless anti-Catholic might be okay to join?

No, I’m not suggesting that. I am suggesting that one cannot easily tell that the Freemasons are anti-catholic. The explicit citation of them by the Church makes that unnecessary. But for other organizations that have not been explicitly named, how does one tell?

I don’t look to Wikipedia for teachings of the Church. If you want specifics then read The Papal Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII - 1892 which is** still valid and in force**

, and the two doccuments which I already quoted in an earlier post state there is no change to the Church’s position on Freemasonry.

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13ms3.htm
I’m not arguing about Freemasonry. I am only asking how to know when some “similar organization” is anti-Catholic in the same sense so that I know not to join it.

 

[thistle]

thistle;9527339:

No, I’m not suggesting that. I am suggesting that one cannot easily tell that the Freemasons are anti-catholic. The explicit citation of them by the Church makes that unnecessary. But for other organizations that have not been explicitly named, how does one tell?

I’m not arguing about Freemasonry. I am only asking how to know when some “similar organization” is anti-Catholic in the same sense so that I know not to join it.

Surely you wouldn’t assume an organisation is hunky-dory? If it were me I would thoroughly research any organisation before joining it, including asking about it on Catholic Answers!

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle;9527772:

Surely you wouldn’t assume an organisation is hunky-dory? If it were me I would thoroughly research any organisation before joining it, including asking about it on Catholic Answers!

CAF is not an official arm of the Catholic Church. I would have no reason to believe that the judgement of any random participant is any better than mine. There is Kiwanis, Rotary, Moose, Optimists, Lions Clubs, Jaycees, etc. Cannon 2335 gives no guidance in determining which if any of these organizations is anti-Catholic, and therefore an excommunicatable offense to join.

 

[thistle]

thistle;9527805:

CAF is not an official arm of the Catholic Church. I would have no reason to believe that the judgement of any random participant is any better than mine. There is Kiwanis, Rotary, Moose, Optimists, Lions Clubs, Jaycees, etc. Cannon 2335 gives no guidance in determining which if any of these organizations is anti-Catholic, and therefore an excommunicatable offense to join.

It is impractical for the Church to give a list because new organisations can pop up daily.
Surely you can use a bit of common sense and do your own research, utilising all means including the internet, CAF etc. If you want to join an organisation are you telling us that you would be unable to find out if it is anti-Catholic or not??

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It is impractical for the Church to give a list because new organisations can pop up daily.
Surely you can use a bit of common sense and do your own research, utilising all means including the internet, CAF etc. If you want to join an organisation are you telling us that you would be unable to find out if it is anti-Catholic or not??

OK, take for example the Freemasons. Other than the explicit mention of them by the Church, how would I find out that they are anti-Catholic? They certainly don’t come right out and say so in their platform.

 

[thistle]

OK, take for example the Freemasons. Other than the explicit mention of them by the Church, how would I find out that they are anti-Catholic? They certainly don’t come right out and say so in their platform.

If you really think you cannot find anything on the internet about particular organisations that tip you off to their views then that speaks for your research capabilities and if you really feel that members of CAF cannot give you answers that can help because they do not officially speak for the Church then what can I say.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If you really think you cannot find anything on the internet about particular organisations that tip you off to their views then that speaks for your research capabilities and if you really feel that members of CAF cannot give you answers that can help because they do not officially speak for the Church then what can I say.

You can simply point out the specific reason why Freemasonry is anti-Catholic. So far in all these exchanges you have steadfastly refused to mention any ( other than the hyperbolic and unsubstantiated claim that they are “out to destroy the Church”)… If you know the reason why not tell me?

 

[thistle]

You can simply point out the specific reason why Freemasonry is anti-Catholic. So far in all these exchanges you have steadfastly refused to mention any ( other than the hyperbolic and unsubstantiated claim that they are “out to destroy the Church”)… If you know the reason why not tell me?

I provided you with the Papal Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII. That sets out exactly the problem with the Freemasons.
Are you saying I wasted my time giving you an official Church document because you did not read it??
Please have the courtesy to read it.

Here’s a couple of paras from the Encyclical:

1. That does not surprise Us. – After nineteen centuries of Christian civilization, this sect tries to overthrow the Catholic Church and to cut off its divine sources. It absolutely denies the supernatural, repudiating every revelation and all the means of salvation which revelation shows us. Through its plans and works, it bases itself solely and entirely on such a weak and corrupt nature as ours. Such a sect cannot be anything other than the height of pride, greed, and sensuality. Now, pride oppresses, greed plunders, and sensuality corrupts. When these three concupiscences are brought to the extreme, the oppressions, greed, and seductive corruptions spread slowly. They take on boundless dimensions and become the oppression, plundering and source of corruption of an entire people.
2. Let Us then show you masonry as an enemy of God, Church, and country. Recognize it as such once and for all, and with all the weapons which reason, conscience, and faith put in your hands, defend yourselves from such a proud foe. Let no one be taken in by its attractive appearance or allured by its promises; do not be seduced by its enticements or frightened by its threats. Remember that Christianity and masonry are essentially irreconcilable, such that to join one is to divorce the other. You can no longer ignore such incompatibility between Catholic and mason, beloved children: you have been warned openly by Our predecessors, and We have loudly repeated the warning.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

OK, that makes sense. So going forward regarding other organizations all I need do is check and see if the organization in question “absolutely denies the supernatural, repudiating every revelation and all the means of salvation which revelation shows us”. If I don’t see anything like that in the stated platform or commonly known characteristics of the organization, then I am free to join if I want. Perhaps the only open question is the degree of due diligence required to determine the true platform of an organization (as opposed to the one they put foremost on their promotional literature). I suppose that depends on the degree of commitment made in joining. For if I join an organization and find out from the inside that it conflicts with what I believe as a Catholic then I may be able to simply quit and perhaps have only committed a couple of months dues. But if the initial commitment is more permanent, so that quitting entails more difficulty, then greater due diligence would be required upfront before joining. In any case the ultimate decision as to whether a particular organization is anti-Catholic, after all reasonable sources are considered, is up to me.