Non-Catholic reactions to Pope Benedict's resignation.

[JonNC]

Yep that was the word. I have heard via EWTN that the secular media is salivating over the departure of Pope Benedict XVI commenting that maybe now we can sweep aside the mothballs of the past such as male only priesthood, cellibacy, and prohibition of same sex marriage.

They don’t get it do they?

Lisa

Do they really think the Conclave will pick Nancy Pelosi?

Jon

 

[Margy1948]

The Vatican is a City/State, and US Subpoenas (or any other country’s) would be meaningless, and unenforceable.

It has already been revealed that he will live out his days within the Vatican.

In addition, there are way to many people lower on the food chain that could be held culpable for legal problems.

I mean really, it would be like going after the President of the US for a street sweeper sideswiping your car.

Unless, of course, you’re only in it for money and attention, then sure, go after him.

Who’s going to look the fool? Him? Don’t think so.

I think that if he is named in the lawsuits that he cannot sidestep testifying. If the other poster is referring to the child sex scandals the only way he could escape that would be to claim mental incompetance. Could be that his lawyers are setting him to say that…we’ll know if he’s ever called into any court of law. As for whether or not the claimants are in it for the money, I think that the Church would be happy to settle out of court, saving both sides money so I don’t think that’s the objective, I could be wrong.

 

[smaneck]

I peeked at Baptist Board and CARM. Those brain surgeons are just getting started…

 

[joe370]

I have no idea what you are talking. Mary said yes to God about having Jesus, therefore, she can help select a pope? Not sure how we get there from the incarnation.

Obviously our mother Mary does not select a new Pope, as I am sure you know. A conclave of Cardinals are responsible for selecting a new Pope, and a 2/3s majority of votes must be reached. Mary, all the the saints in heaven, those belonging to the the church militant on earth, can all work collaboratively via prayer… Pretty straightforward stuff…

 

[Slaney]

I peeked at Baptist Board and CARM. Those brain surgeons are just getting started…

No surprise, they survive by bashing the Catholic Church which means they are very shallow & need to be constantly bashing to keep their followers interested which is NO faith at-all…

 

[twopekinguys]

Extradition? There are ways and means of pursuing at least some alleged wrongdoers across borders.

1. Not all countries have extradition treaties with each other.
2. Even if there is a treaty, it doesn’t mean it will be honored.

For example, in recent history, Mexico would not extradite a man back to the US because he would face the death penalty. Even though we have an extradition treaty with Mexico.

But, you are right, people could go after some of the other alleged wrong doers that are lower on the food chain. (like I explained before)

Also, Pope Benedict was named in one of the priest scandal cases from Wisconsin. It didn’t work out for them, or the ACLU. There was also a Belgian lawyer trying the same thing, and that didn’t work out.

Just sayin

 

[twopekinguys]

I think that if he is named in the lawsuits that he cannot sidestep testifying. If the other poster is referring to the child sex scandals the only way he could escape that would be to claim mental incompetance. Could be that his lawyers are setting him to say that…we’ll know if he’s ever called into any court of law. As for whether or not the claimants are in it for the money, I think that the Church would be happy to settle out of court, saving both sides money so I don’t think that’s the objective, I could be wrong.

Again, the Vatican is a country all unto itself. It is not governed by US laws, or any other country’s laws.

There needs to be an extradition treaty in place before he could be forced to testify. Even if he is tried in absentia, it wouldn’t matter, because the Vatican is a country unto itself and not subject to US laws.

It isn’t hard to see how many are in it for the money. Especially the lawyers. Sorry Texan

Do you remember the case where a young man accused Cardinal Bernadine of Chicago of abuse? It was all over the news.

The part where the guy recanted his story got very little coverage. It happens all the time.

 

[gus]

It’s all very thought provoking.

My grandma suffered & died the same way as BPJPII did, but she did not hold onto any office she previously held. Of course as a housewife and mother she never held anywhere near the level of the office of the Pope in her volunteer positions.

Your answer to two leads me to another question- why would the Holy Spirit have inspired the election of someone who was unable to do the job as PBXVI determined he was unable to do once he with the aid of the Holy Spirit discerned? I really don’t think God is like, u"Hahaha I (Holy Spirit) am going to inspire others to give you a position that you can’t handle & then once your in the position I’m going to guide you to leave it rather than giving you the strength needed to do it Hahahaha" I don’t think He’s like that. The Bible says that we can do all things through God Who strengthens us.
Trusting your are not a Troll I will give you an answer
You and the Holy Spirit know your heart
He did perform the duties for 8 years brilliantly.Given he was 78 and looking forward to a life of pray and study.When called.
The office has demands like extensive travel which require a certain amount of vigor that at 86 he no longer pocesses.
He is a man of great intellect and even greater humility than
you can imagine.
He has done the will of the Holy Spirit. who here can judge him. Certainly not someone like you or I.

This will be a mystery to me.

 

[Margy1948]

Again, the Vatican is a country all unto itself. It is not governed by US laws, or any other country’s laws.

There needs to be an extradition treaty in place before he could be forced to testify. Even if he is tried in absentia, it wouldn’t matter, because the Vatican is a country unto itself and not subject to US laws.

It isn’t hard to see how many are in it for the money. Especially the lawyers. Sorry Texan

Do you remember the case where a young man accused Cardinal Bernadine of Chicago of abuse? It was all over the news.

The part where the guy recanted his story got very little coverage. It happens all the time.

That’s what I used to think too, but apparently those deaf people have a lawyer who has figured out a way to circumvent it.
Was Cardinal Bernadine an African American gentleman? I thought he was accused of having a lady friend, not any criminal activity. Is he still living? I enjoyed his articles.

 

[Margy1948]

Do they really think the Conclave will pick Nancy Pelosi?

Jon

Now this is funny, you think like an American and can only come up with an American politician!! The Catholic church is all over the world and it’s likely that very few people in other countries have any idea who Pelosi is…they would probably offer one of their own female citizens as a possible lady pope.
Besides, I thought any good Catholic male could be considered for the office of Pope, when did it become exclusive to Cardinals?

 

[twopekinguys]

That’s what I used to think too, but apparently those deaf people have a lawyer who has figured out a way to circumvent it.
Was Cardinal Bernadine an African American gentleman? I thought he was accused of having a lady friend, not any criminal activity. Is he still living? I enjoyed his articles.

How have they found a way to circumvent international law?

Cardinal Bernadin was a white gentleman this is now deceased. 1996 (Pancreatic canceer)

 

[Augustus24]

By progressive I don’t mean socially liberal, I mean be willing to revise many of the Catholic Church’s disciplines. For example, opening up the Latin priesthood to married men would be a good start. Also revising the rules for divorced and remarried people to come back to church. Also re examining the churches rules about contraception.

If not revising the rules, it would be nice if the new pope is willing to have any discussion at all on these issues where dissenters have been stonewalled on for 30 or 40 years.

 

[LilyM]

By progressive I don’t mean socially liberal, I mean be willing to revise many of the Catholic Church’s disciplines. For example, opening up the Latin priesthood to married men would be a good start. Also revising the rules for divorced and remarried people to come back to church. Also re examining the churches rules about contraception.

If not revising the rules, it would be nice if the new pope is willing to have any discussion at all on these issues where dissenters have been stonewalled on for 30 or 40 years.

Married clergy is open for debate. And some married men, particularly converts who were previously non-Catholic priests, have already been permitted to become Latin priests.

Other issues, such as contraception and the eligibility of divorced persons for remarriage, are matters of faith and morals, of God’s eternal and irreformable law as we understand it to pertain to those issues, and not mere Church rules that can be changed at will.

 

[LisaA]

By progressive I don’t mean socially liberal, I mean be willing to revise many of the Catholic Church’s disciplines. For example, opening up the Latin priesthood to married men would be a good start. Also revising the rules for divorced and remarried people to come back to church. Also re examining the churches rules about contraception.

If not revising the rules, it would be nice if the new pope is willing to have any discussion at all on these issues where dissenters have been stonewalled on for 30 or 40 years.

I wouldn’t hold my breath. You know the verse that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. We actually believe there is an Objective Truth that may not play well on Chicken Noodle News but is the truth today, yesterday and tomorrow.

The dissenters have not been stonewalled…heavens look through CAF and there were a number of recent threads on dissenting Religious who keep making suggestions and coming up with brilliant plans on improving the Church. So far their arguments have not been very compelling.

Noting the thread, I still always wonder at the non-Catholics who disagree with the Church and think they have either the knowledge or understanding of the teachings to make germane comments.

Lisa

 

[Augustus24]

I wouldn’t hold my breath. You know the verse that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. We actually believe there is an Objective Truth that may not play well on Chicken Noodle News but is the truth today, yesterday and tomorrow.

The dissenters have not been stonewalled…heavens look through CAF and there were a number of recent threads on dissenting Religious who keep making suggestions and coming up with brilliant plans on improving the Church. So far their arguments have not been very compelling.

Noting the thread, I still always wonder at the non-Catholics who disagree with the Church and think they have either the knowledge or understanding of the teachings to make germane comments.

Lisa

"I wouldn’t hold my breath. You know the verse that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. "

Jesus Christ is the same, the Catholic Church’s doctrine and moral teaching has gone through all sorts of permutations.

The dissenters have not been stonewalled…heavens look through CAF and there were a number of recent threads on dissenting Religious who keep making suggestions and coming up with brilliant plans on improving the Church.

I am not talking about laypeople bantering on a discussion forum, I am talking about all those Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests who urged reform on the matter and were stonewalled. That’s why I hope the new pope is at least willing to have an open discussion on these matters.

Noting the thread, I still always wonder at the non-Catholics who disagree with the Church and think they have either the knowledge or understanding of the teachings to make germane comments.

Right, if only we “understood” Catholic teaching and discipline we would just fall in line, correct? Why, oh why can’t we just understand!

 

[JonNC]

Now this is funny, you think like an American and can only come up with an American politician!! The Catholic church is all over the world and it’s likely that very few people in other countries have any idea who Pelosi is…they would probably offer one of their own female citizens as a possible lady pope.
Besides, I thought any good Catholic male could be considered for the office of Pope, when did it become exclusive to Cardinals?

I’m not at all embarrassed to think like an American, and the American politician I came up with sort of fit the ideas the poster I responded to offered.

Finally, the laughing emoticon should clue that it was intended as a joke.

Jon

 

[LisaA]

Jesus Christ is the same, the Catholic Church’s doctrine and moral teaching has gone through all sorts of permutations.

I am not talking about laypeople bantering on a discussion forum, I am talking about all those Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests who urged reform on the matter and were stonewalled. That’s why I hope the new pope is at least willing to have an open discussion on these matters.

Right, if only we “understood” Catholic teaching and discipline we would just fall in line, correct? Why, oh why can’t we just understand!

Religious are not “laypersons” and I do not know of any Cardinals or Bishops demanding reforms. Maybe you can enlighten me? Also the “permutations” of Catholic teaching and discipline? Really?

Since you clearly do not understand Catholic teaching I’m not sure why you feel qualified to claim it needs “reform.” Whether or not you accept Catholic teaching is not particularly interesting or relevent.

Lisa

 

[Augustus24]

Religious are not “laypersons” and I do not know of any Cardinals or Bishops demanding reforms. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Since you clearly do not understand Catholic teaching I’m not sure why you feel qualified to claim it needs “reform.” Whether or not you accept Catholic teaching is not particularly interesting or relevent.

Lisa

Religious are not “laypersons” and I do not know of any Cardinals or Bishops demanding reforms. Maybe you can enlighten me?

Many Cardinals demanded reform during the Vatican II council:

Pope Paul VI’s commission on birth control voted overwhelming to overturn Casti Connubii, the most ardent opponent was Cardinal Leo Suenens. Unfortunately out of the 72 members, 3 bishops on the commission convinced Pope Paul to not listen to the recommendations of the commission and the commission itself was stonewalled in 1968 when Pope Paul VI issued Humanae Vitae. Since then, the issue is not even on the table for discussion even though his own commission found the opposite.

The commission found that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves what to employ.

Other dissenters were Patriarch Patriarch Maximus IV Saigh, along with Cardinal Suenens, Cardinal Leger, and Cardinal Alfrink. These dissenting voices were roundly ignored.

Since you clearly do not understand Catholic teaching I’m not sure why you feel qualified to claim it needs “reform.” Whether or not you accept Catholic teaching is not particularly interesting or relevent.

I understand it and I still reject it. And it still needs reform.

 

[twopekinguys]

Now this is funny, you think like an American and can only come up with an American politician!! The Catholic church is all over the world and it’s likely that very few people in other countries have any idea who Pelosi is…they would probably offer one of their own female citizens as a possible lady pope.
Besides, I thought any good Catholic male could be considered for the office of Pope, when did it become exclusive to Cardinals?

Any Catholic male who has reached the age of reason can be elected Pope (woman cannot become Pope because they cannot be ordained as priests). In practice, one of the cardinals in the conclave is elected as the new Pope. (The last non-cardinal elected Pope was Urban VI in 1379). If a Pope is not a bishop, then he will have to be consecrated as a bishop prior to becoming Pope

 

[LisaA]

Many Cardinals demanded reform during the Vatican II council:

Pope Paul VI’s commission on birth control voted overwhelming to overturn Casti Connubii, the most ardent opponent was Cardinal Leo Suenens. Unfortunately out of the 72 members, 3 bishops on the commission convinced Pope Paul to not listen to the recommendations of the commission and the commission itself was stonewalled in 1968 when Pope Paul VI issued Humanae Vitae. Since then, the issue is not even on the table for discussion even though his own commission found the opposite.

The commission found that artificial birth control was not intrinsically evil and Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves what to employ.

Other dissenters were Patriarch Patriarch Maximus IV Saigh, along with Cardinal Suenens, Cardinal Leger, and Cardinal Alfrink. These dissenting voices were roundly ignored.

I understand it and I still reject it. And it still needs reform.

Vatican II was fifty years ago while your statement indicated “various permutations” as if major changes in doctrine occurred regularly and recently.

I will admit we changed some wording in the Mass last year but it was to return to a more faithful translation of the original. No change in doctrine.

I’m anxious to know why you, Augustus24, recent member of CAF believe that you know more than all of the Cardinals and the Pope regarding what Catholic doctrine “should be?”
Why you, who do not claim to be a Catholic think that the Church “needs reform?”

Lisa