Non Catholic Receiving Communion

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Okay, I love to listen to popular TV pastor Joel Osteen preach. In fact, I usually watch his show on Sunday mornings while having breakfast or getting ready to go out to Mass. This week he spoke about people having new experiences and not holding onto prejudices. He said that when he and his wife were in Italy they went to a Catholic Mass and, even though he could not understand the language, he felt the presense of God there. He specifically said that when they went up to receive communion he felt the presence of God there. I immediately knew he made a faux pas if he received communion in a Catholic church, but the fact that he followed it by saying he felt the presence of God there during communion made me wonder if that made it okay.

Your thoughts about this, please. Thanks.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Okay, I love to listen to popular TV pastor Joel Osteen preach. In fact, I usually watch his show on Sunday mornings while having breakfast or getting ready to go out to Mass. This week he spoke about people having new experiences and not holding onto prejudices. He said that when he and his wife were in Italy they went to a Catholic Mass and, even though he could not understand the language, he felt the presense of God there. He specifically said that when they went up to receive communion he felt the presence of God there. I immediately knew he made a faux pas if he received communion in a Catholic church, but the fact that he followed it by saying he felt the presence of God there during communion made me wonder if that made it okay.

Your thoughts about this, please. Thanks.
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I’m sure your average Mayan Indian felt the presence of their gods as they cut out the hearts of their human sacrificial victims - doesn’t mean they were correct to do so. Neither was Osteen correct to receive Communion. No amount of feelings will ever make it right, unless those feelings first lead one to actually enter the Church by completing the Catholic sacraments of initiation as well as, usually, the sacrament of Penance.

For one thing, communion is a proclamation of communion with the church in which you receive it - including assent to the totality of all their teachings. I’m sure Osteen disagrees with just a couplea teachings of the Catholic church, somehow. Now even a CATHOLIC who disagrees with any church teaching shouldn’t be receiving Communion, nor should a Catholic who is otherwise in a state of unconfessed mortal sin, much less a non-Catholic. Not under any circumstances at all (apart from being in danger of death at least).

Mind you, I’m not saying he or anyone involved committed a sin - we can’t know whether he has even been taught that we consider it both sacrilegious and sinful, let alone what other factors surrounded his receiving it. And it’s a very hopeful sign that he says he felt the presence of God in our church - how about we start praying hard that he convert to Catholicism?
 
Joel is not my cup of tea, and I think he concentrates too much on Joel and less on God. My aunt who passed recently thought he was marvelous, but that’s another story.

That said, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he did not know. I believe canon law says non-Catholics have to request it, and have to profess a belief in the Real Presence before they can receive. This usually means becoming Catholic, something for which to pray.

I am also willing to write his ministry and let him know that while he might not have realized it, non-Catholics do not receive the Eucharist as a matter of course, the canon law behind it, and the scriptural why of the whole matter. I am also willing to pray for his conversion.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Okay, I love to listen to popular TV pastor Joel Osteen preach. In fact, I usually watch his show on Sunday mornings while having breakfast or getting ready to go out to Mass. This week he spoke about people having new experiences and not holding onto prejudices. He said that when he and his wife were in Italy they went to a Catholic Mass and, even though he could not understand the language, he felt the presense of God there. He specifically said that when they went up to receive communion he felt the presence of God there. I immediately knew he made a faux pas if he received communion in a Catholic church, but the fact that he followed it by saying he felt the presence of God there during communion made me wonder if that made it okay.

Your thoughts about this, please. Thanks.
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Absolutely not!
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Okay, I love to listen to popular TV pastor Joel Osteen preach. In fact, I usually watch his show on Sunday mornings while having breakfast or getting ready to go out to Mass. This week he spoke about people having new experiences and not holding onto prejudices. He said that when he and his wife were in Italy they went to a Catholic Mass and, even though he could not understand the language, he felt the presense of God there. He specifically said that when they went up to receive communion he felt the presence of God there. I immediately knew he made a faux pas if he received communion in a Catholic church, but the fact that he followed it by saying he felt the presence of God there during communion made me wonder if that made it okay.

Your thoughts about this, please. Thanks.
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No, it is never “OK” for a non-Catholic to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Mass on their own authority, not without the Bishops permission and under specific circumstances.
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
I am also willing to write his ministry and let him know that while he might not have realized it, non-Catholics do not receive the Eucharist as a matter of course, the canon law behind it, and the scriptural why of the whole matter. I am also willing to pray for his conversion.
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I was thinking of writing to him as well. I don’t know if what he actually meant was, “when we went up to receive a blessing during communion,” but that is not what he said. A big problem with this, in my view, is that it gives thousands of people who may not be Catholic the idea that it is alright for them to receive Communion when they visit a Catholic Church. I did like that he promoted acceptance of us, without prejudice, and mentioned that he had a positive and godly experience within a Catholic Church.

Another danger that I forsee in his message, which was largely about broadening your horizons, is when he moved from encouraging people to be open to new interests (especially those of one’s spose) to encouraging visiting other churches. He concentrated on Christian churches or preachers, but there is a danger that those listening to him will hear that as being open to “trying out” different religions and philosphies. I really think he was quite naive in this Sunday’s message. Although it was great of him to encourage men to go to the symphony if their wives would like to rather than saying to their wives, “No I wouldn’t like that. I only like sports.”
 
I have known several non-Catholics, and “former” Catholics, who are fully informed about, but defiant about, the Church’s position re: interfaith communion. One person, who actively berates the Catholic Church for some of her teachings, occasionally attends Mass, and has told me “I’ll do whatever I want that makes me feel closer to God and it’s none of your business.” I’d like to think that even while we sin, the Holy Spirit continues to draw us closer to God, but of course that doesn’t mean it’s okay for her or anyone to receive the Sacrament unworthily.

So we don’t know if this Joel person is willfully ignorant about our Church’s teaching that receiving the Eucharist is a sign of our unity of faith (etc.). I hope he is informed, or re-informed.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
I was thinking of writing to him as well. I don’t know if what he actually meant was, “when we went up to receive a blessing during communion,” but that is not what he said. A big problem with this, in my view, is that it gives thousands of people who may not be Catholic the idea that it is alright for them to receive Communion when they visit a Catholic Church. I did like that he promoted acceptance of us, without prejudice, and mentioned that he had a positive and godly experience within a Catholic Church. That’s fine, but it boils down to he fact that he didn’t bother. I seriously doubt he got a belssing, as that’s not really a European thing. I am still working on my letter, sending it snail mail. I don’t want to be nasty, and we all know I can be a litle blunt.

Another danger that I forsee in his message, which was largely about broadening your horizons, is when he moved from encouraging people to be open to new interests (especially those of one’s spose) to encouraging visiting other churches. He concentrated on Christian churches or preachers, but there is a danger that those listening to him will hear that as being open to “trying out” different religions and philosphies. I really think he was quite naive in this Sunday’s message. Although it was great of him to encourage men to go to the symphony if their wives would like to rather than saying to their wives, “No I wouldn’t like that. I only like sports.” An “anything goes” is OK with Lakeland Church, as they don’t have a problem with other Christians. “Anything goes.”
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I also know a number of non-Catholics who openly receive Communion, knowing full well that they are not to receive. One of them says he considers it a “guest Communion” even though I have told him that there is no such thing. The other individual, whose wife is a EMHC, has been receiving for the last 20 years. He has absolutely no intention of converting, and he and his wife both know that he is not supposed to receive. It is one of the reasons I don’t want to be an EMHC even though I have been asked. If these two people were to be in my line, what would I do? I don’t have the authority to deny them and certainly wouldn’t want to cause a scene, but I would also know that they should not be receiving.
 
KatieD said:
I also know a number of non-Catholics who openly receive Communion, knowing full well that they are not to receive. One of them says he considers it a “guest Communion” even though I have told him that there is no such thing. The other individual, whose wife is a EMHC, has been receiving for the last 20 years. He has absolutely no intention of converting, and he and his wife both know that he is not supposed to receive. It is one of the reasons I don’t want to be an EMHC even though I have been asked. If these two people were to be in my line, what would I do? I don’t have the authority to deny them and certainly wouldn’t want to cause a scene, but I would also know that they should not be receiving.
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I have mixed feelings about this topic. I “know” the Catholic Church prohibits the receiving of the Sacrament unless one believes in the actual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. And I definitely would not endorse that those not of the Catholic Faith receive communion at a Catholic Mass. It would give scandal if it was known that person receiving was not Catholic. I also recognize the danger in Rev. Osteen possibly giving the impression to listeners of his program that it is okay to “try out” the Catholic Church. Just shouldn’t be taken so lightly. But…on the other hand, how do we know that it would be impossible for someone like Rev. Osteen to receive Grace through receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist? The Church definitely rules against it, but would God be so insecure?:hmmm:
 
elts1956 said:
I have mixed feelings about this topic. I “know” the Catholic Church prohibits the receiving of the Sacrament unless one believes in the actual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. And I definitely would not endorse that those not of the Catholic Faith receive communion at a Catholic Mass. It would give scandal if it was known that person receiving was not Catholic. I also recognize the danger in Rev. Osteen possibly giving the impression to listeners of his program that it is okay to “try out” the Catholic Church. Just shouldn’t be taken so lightly. But…on the other hand, how do we know that it would be impossible for someone like Rev. Osteen to receive Grace through receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist? The Church definitely rules against it, but would God be so insecure?:hmmm:
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God has told us, through St Paul, what He thinks - that anyone who eats or drinks unworthily and without discernment eats and drinks their own condemnation. And He also, through St Paul, tells us why, and it’s not about security or insecurity.

See, St Paul talks in that chapter of the physical, as well as spiritual, power that the Eucharist has, and how those who wrongly receive it, because of this power that it has, get physically ill and even DIE!

So basically when someone unworthily receives, they receive something they literally, physically let alone spiritually, just can’t handle. At least not without first taking care to be in the right state to receive it.

Being a reasonably seasoned traveller, I would make this analogy.

It’s like if you take an American appliance, travel with it to a country where the electricity grid is of a higher voltage, like it is in Europe or here in Oz, and try to plug it in to a socket in this other country - it’ll most likely blow up or melt down or do something equally crazy. At the least it certainly won’t work.

Not necessarily that there’s anything faulty with either the appliance or the electricity system, just the two are totally incompatible.
 
LilyM said:
God has told us, through St Paul, what He thinks - that anyone who eats or drinks unworthily and without discernment eats and drinks their own condemnation. And He also, through St Paul, tells us why, and it’s not about security or insecurity.

See, St Paul talks in that chapter of the physical, as well as spiritual, power that the Eucharist has, and how those who wrongly receive it, because of this power that it has, get physically ill and even DIE!

So basically when someone unworthily receives, they receive something they literally, physically let alone spiritually, just can’t handle. At least not without first taking care to be in the right state to receive it.

Being a reasonably seasoned traveller, I would make this analogy.

It’s like if you take an American appliance, travel with it to a country where the electricity grid is of a higher voltage, like it is in Europe or here in Oz, and try to plug it in to a socket in this other country - it’ll most likely blow up or melt down or do something equally crazy. At the least it certainly won’t work.

Not necessarily that there’s anything faulty with either the appliance or the electricity system, just the two are totally incompatible.
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This is exactly right, SO what she is trying to say is yes we would love and encourage anyone into the CC. But before you receive this wonderful gift from Christ, you must understand what a Blessing it truely is. Now this again is not something we made up, this is the way that Jesus led the Church to do it. I am sure you agree he has his reasons. Some he shares with us, others he dont, we must just obey his commands.
 
This is an important issue. However, more important is the issue that so many Catholics are un/under catechized and know as little about the Eucharist as non Catholics. As an EM, it pains me how people approach the Lord and nonchalantly just stick their hands out. As a DRE, my sheep are constantly reminded about how special this gift is and coached about how to properly receive it.
 
My parents were in town this weekend and went to mass with me. They are calvinist and do not recieve. They do ask alot of good questions when they come to DC esp since we celebrated Corpus Christi after the 11am mass.

Dconklin and rinnie I agree and just wish that after the priest, deacon or EMCH says “the Body of Christ” everybody would exclaim “AMEN”. Say it like you mean it, mean it when you say it. If you can’t say AMEN in a Church, where and when can you?
 
It is not right at all for him to receive Communion at a Catholic Mass. As Catholics, we believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of our oneness in faith, life and worship. Members of churches with whom we are not yet fully united are therefore not ordinarily invited to participate in Holy Communion. The Catechism of the Catholic Church reflects on this teaching:

Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible for the Catholic Church. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper … profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, number 1400)
 
I love it when I am with a non-Catholic at Mass and they have questions about communion. It tests my knowledge and also my sensitivity in how to approach explanations. I have wondered sometimes whether to talk about it before the Mass or wait, because it’s feel so impolite to tell someone and tell them that they can’t do something. Yet it needs to be talked about.

One of my friends was startled when she saw the EMs get out of their seats and go up to the altar before communion and asked if everyone was just supposed to sort of head on up there like that. This was before I knew that the EMs should not be around the altar.
 
I too have given a discreet play-by-play of what was going on. Very cool!👍
 
KatieD said:
I also know a number of non-Catholics who openly receive Communion, knowing full well that they are not to receive. One of them says he considers it a “guest Communion” even though I have told him that there is no such thing. The other individual, whose wife is a EMHC, has been receiving for the last 20 years. He has absolutely no intention of converting, and he and his wife both know that he is not supposed to receive. It is one of the reasons I don’t want to be an EMHC even though I have been asked. If these two people were to be in my line, what would I do? I don’t have the authority to deny them and certainly wouldn’t want to cause a scene, but I would also know that they should not be receiving.
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Katie,
As a non-catholic, I would not take it upon myself to receive at Catholic Mass, if for no other reason than the Catholic Church asks me not to. When I am a guest in someone’s house, out of respect, I do what they ask me to do. It is a simple matter of courtesy and respect. I believe Joel Osteen has been around the block often enough to know better, but I will not judge his motives.

I pray for the day when your Church and mine will share the Eucharist.
Jon
 
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