non-Catholic refusing participation in wedding

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cloiser

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Hello I am new to the forum

I am engaged to be married to a non-Catholic, my fiance’s faith is basically participation in the remnants of a “The Way International” fellowship/bible study group that follows the teachings of Victor Paul Wierwille. The teachings of “The Way International” are something like maybe Jehovah Witnesses but basically do not accept any religion besides the teachings based on Victor Paul Wierwille’s interpretation of the bible.

When we first started dating I had been away from the Catholic church for about 3 years, and after attending some of their meetings I was quick to recognize the shortcomings in what was being taught and was at first difficult and argumentative with my fiance. However I abandoned this attitude as I became more involved in Catholic church and have not made excessive effort to convert fiance to Catholicism but have presented strong defenses for Catholic stances on issues like the trinity, and Sacraments like the Eucharist, and Baptism.

Fast forward over a year and we are deciding on marriage ceremony. We both are in agreement about our roles in and the importance of marriage. We have attended mass together but my fiance has not attended any RCIA or faith development classes when invited by a couple of priests. After both pitching our defenses for where the ceremony should be held we prayed for a few weeks and my fiance decided to go forward with Catholic ceremony without mass. We had a meeting with my parish priest and took care of paperwork (dispensations).

The night after the meeting we met with my fiance’s religious group leader to share the news and ask him to read the gospel or offer a blessing at the wedding. When we shared the wedding would be Catholic he scoffed and was visibly angry, he asked my fiance “you’re gonna go along with this stuff?” He then flatly refused to participate in the wedding in any way citing Catholic doctrinal misguidance or some similar wording.

My fiance was quite heartbroken, crying and sobbing like I have not seen before. My fiance believe this is her own fault and she should not have wavered in her faith. I am wondering how to approach this situation. I don’t follow how a sola scriptura Christian minister could be opposed to reading from the Bible or offering a blessing at a wedding. There will be no liturgy of the Eucharist at the wedding so I guess I am just stunned at the lack of understanding and wondering other’s opinions on this matter.

I always thought the Catholic church was divisive, however, with my return to the church I realize the Catholic church is accepting of all, but other denominations are vehemently anti-Catholic.

Thank you for your thoughts, and apologies for the wordiness

Nel
 
I hesitate to say this, but I think you and your fiancee need to work out a few issues before going through with this marriage. It seems obvious that she still has a strong loyalty to her faith despite her willingness to compromise and be understanding and and respectful to Catholicism. She may be OK with a “Catholic” marriage, but what about your religious differences in the future?

Seriously, you need to think this through some more.
 
First, I’m sorry for your present situation. Marriage in the Catholic Tradition is intended to be a reflection of the Trinity in the world. The husband and wife’s shared love is generative and often produces the blessing of children (love expands). It is the greatest of all human institutions (yes, even greater than the Church itself).

Any problem with Catholic teachings is a problem with the Trinity, not with Rome as the church is simply the messenger of Jesus and the tradition.

Your fiancee’s minister is “Protestant” of the truth’s held in the “deposit of faith” that is the Catholic Church and, as such, I would expect to rebel as he has not ascended intellectually to an understanding that enables the Spirit to move him to the supra-rational faith position that is evident in Jesus and the Saints of our great tradition.
 
cloiser said:
Hello I am new to the forum

I am engaged to be married to a non-Catholic, my fiance’s faith is basically participation in the remnants of a “The Way International” fellowship/bible study group that follows the teachings of Victor Paul Wierwille. The teachings of “The Way International” are something like maybe Jehovah Witnesses but basically do not accept any religion besides the teachings based on Victor Paul Wierwille’s interpretation of the bible.

When we first started dating I had been away from the Catholic church for about 3 years, and after attending some of their meetings I was quick to recognize the shortcomings in what was being taught and was at first difficult and argumentative with my fiance. However I abandoned this attitude as I became more involved in Catholic church and have not made excessive effort to convert fiance to Catholicism but have presented strong defenses for Catholic stances on issues like the trinity, and Sacraments like the Eucharist, and Baptism.

Fast forward over a year and we are deciding on marriage ceremony. We both are in agreement about our roles in and the importance of marriage. We have attended mass together but my fiance has not attended any RCIA or faith development classes when invited by a couple of priests. After both pitching our defenses for where the ceremony should be held we prayed for a few weeks and my fiance decided to go forward with Catholic ceremony without mass. We had a meeting with my parish priest and took care of paperwork (dispensations).

The night after the meeting we met with my fiance’s religious group leader to share the news and ask him to read the gospel or offer a blessing at the wedding. When we shared the wedding would be Catholic he scoffed and was visibly angry, he asked my fiance “you’re gonna go along with this stuff?” He then flatly refused to participate in the wedding in any way citing Catholic doctrinal misguidance or some similar wording.

My fiance was quite heartbroken, crying and sobbing like I have not seen before. My fiance believe this is her own fault and she should not have wavered in her faith. I am wondering how to approach this situation. I don’t follow how a sola scriptura Christian minister could be opposed to reading from the Bible or offering a blessing at a wedding. There will be no liturgy of the Eucharist at the wedding so I guess I am just stunned at the lack of understanding and wondering other’s opinions on this matter.

I always thought the Catholic church was divisive, however, with my return to the church I realize the Catholic church is accepting of all, but other denominations are vehemently anti-Catholic.

Thank you for your thoughts, and apologies for the wordiness

Nel
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I agree with Lost Sheep that this will probably not be the last of the inter-religious issues you and your future wife face, particularly as you start raising a family together.

That said, it sounds like your fiancee’s church is particularly obnoxious and borderline cult-like. Maybe step up your involvement with both her church and your Church and see what happens? You could both do RCIA (not necessarily for her to get the sacraments, but just for education) and you could as a gesture of good-will attend her church (in addition to your normal Catholic practice). That’s a lot of church, but I think that eventually, your fiancee will compare and contrast and realize that her church is borderline abusive. I’m not saying that she will necessarily become Catholic, but I think that if her head is screwed on right, she will eventually leave her current church.

I would not rush a marriage in this situation, as your fiancee has been in a toxic environment, and she probably needs some time to decompress and get her head right before taking on a life-long commitment to you.

Best wishes!
 
I would suggest the following (assuming that you two still want to get married and know how you are going to treat kids, etc.)

Talk to the priest, with her, about what this minister said. It’s a shame how anti-Catholic these people often are. Show her that a Catholic priest would never have behaved that way. Show her how they don’t view us a Christian, etc. The priest might not be able to tell her what to say to this minister, but perhaps his compassion will help.

Obviously do the above with lots of love and charity.

Who knows, perhaps, in the long run she will come to view the Catholic Church as the one true Church after all this is over.

And you are VERY correct in that it’s the Catholic Church which is truly accepting of all people. Others are often (not always) only accepting of like minded folks.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
I hesitate to say this, but I think you and your fiancee need to work out a few issues before going through with this marriage. It seems obvious that she still has a strong loyalty to her faith despite her willingness to compromise and be understanding and and respectful to Catholicism. She may be OK with a “Catholic” marriage, but what about your religious differences in the future?

Seriously, you need to think this through some more.
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Agree.
 
Yeah - a lot of non-Catholic Christians don’t realize how cruel they sound when they get into these situation.

However, the “minster” has a right to say that he won’t participate.

This kind of thing is going to come up in your marriage - a lot - if you are both sincere about following your faith (and she’s not going to convert).

I would approach the situation in love.

She’s obviously attached to this group. Is there someone else in the group that would give a blessing or do a reading? It means a lot to her, so even if it’s not this person, then maybe someone else could do it.

It would be a nice gesture to ask and see if that’s an option. Help her see that it’s not her fault, if this person wants to be cruel. Her relationship with Christ is not in danger if she chooses to have a Catholic wedding and not be Catholic.

Just be gentle. It’s hard when people wake up and realize that the people that they love/admire can be cruel and heartless. It is going to shake her faith. Just be there. Don’t try to push Catholicism on her, but let the Holy Spirit work in her life.
 
This is a critical time. Pray the Rosary for her and yourself, and this situation, daily.
Be grateful that the minister spoke his mind when he did. He’s created a situation that can make her look more soberly at the direction she wishes to go.
St Michael the Archangel prayer, say many times daily.

traditioninaction.org/religious/b009rpMichael.htm
 
Just to let you know–Evangelical Protestants consider The Way International a dangerous cult, not in the sense of physical danger, but danger of being brainwashed.

IMO, your fiancé is completely brainwashed in the ways of this cult, and she will need some serious “de-programming.” Frankly, I’m shocked that she ever agreed to go out with you, a Catholic. I’m guessing that she felt that she would be able to convert you to “the truth.”

If I were you, I wouldn’t marry someone who is steeped in a cult. I would get out now and thank God for a narrow escape.

Unless…you are willing to go to hell and back to rescue her? Take great care not to get hooked in yourself. Be careful.

Do a lot of research. If your Catholic parish/diocese is ignorant about The Way International, then go talk to the pastors of the large Evangelical Protestant churches in your area and gather as much information as you can.

When I say “Evangelical Protestant,” I am talking about the Protestant churches that are NOT mainline denominations. Don’t go talk to the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Reformed, Methodists, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ…all the “old” churches. These churches will not have useful information for you about The Way International, and even worse, they might tell you that “as long as there is love, you are doing the right thing.” Baloney. Your soul is at stake.

Go see the pastors of Baptist, Covenant, Evangelical Free, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and other pastors of churches that are part of the National Association of Evangelicals. These are the Evangelical Protestant denominations, and they will have the information about The Way International that you need.

You are playing with fire here–do not go in without adequate protection, which includes thorough education.
 
Cat said:
Just to let you know–Evangelical Protestants consider The Way International a dangerous cult, not in the sense of physical danger, but danger of being brainwashed.

IMO, your fiancé is completely brainwashed in the ways of this cult, and she will need some serious “de-programming.” Frankly, I’m shocked that she ever agreed to go out with you, a Catholic. I’m guessing that she felt that she would be able to convert you to “the truth.”

If I were you, I wouldn’t marry someone who is steeped in a cult. I would get out now and thank God for a narrow escape.

Unless…you are willing to go to hell and back to rescue her? Take great care not to get hooked in yourself. Be careful.

Do a lot of research. If your Catholic parish/diocese is ignorant about The Way International, then go talk to the pastors of the large Evangelical Protestant churches in your area and gather as much information as you can.

When I say “Evangelical Protestant,” I am talking about the Protestant churches that are NOT mainline denominations. Don’t go talk to the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Reformed, Methodists, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ…all the “old” churches. These churches will not have useful information for you about The Way International, and even worse, they might tell you that “as long as there is love, you are doing the right thing.” Baloney. Your soul is at stake.

Go see the pastors of Baptist, Covenant, Evangelical Free, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and other pastors of churches that are part of the National Association of Evangelicals. These are the Evangelical Protestant denominations, and they will have the information about The Way International that you need.

You are playing with fire here–do not go in without adequate protection, which includes thorough education.
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That’s very good advice.

This is not like being engaged to a plain vanilla Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, or whatnot.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
I hesitate to say this, but I think you and your fiancee need to work out a few issues before going through with this marriage. It seems obvious that she still has a strong loyalty to her faith despite her willingness to compromise and be understanding and and respectful to Catholicism. She may be OK with a “Catholic” marriage, but what about your religious differences in the future?

Seriously, you need to think this through some more.
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Amen. I was not Catholic when my wife and I became engaged to be married. I was Southern Baptist and she a cradle Catholic. I had no intention of converting and she was fine with that. We would go to both churches and if we were blessed with children (which we have been, thanks be to God) I would agree to allow them to be raised Catholic. We had it all figured out, lol. But the Holy Spirit began to work on me and I began to see how detrimental it would be to our marriage to immediately start out with a division, particularly one of such great importance. Long story short I began to study the Church, enrolled in RCIA and was confirmed at Easter Vigil 2011 prior to our wedding. I can tell you that I cannot imagine us being of two different faith traditions and making it work. The Church is so integral to our lives from holidays to Baptisms, etc. I know that many people make it work, but I can imagine it is a tough road for those folks. God bless you in your journey toward marriage. Pray for guidance and be open to the urgings of the Holy Spirit and take heed to them.
 
Cat said:
Just to let you know–Evangelical Protestants consider The Way International a dangerous cult, not in the sense of physical danger, but danger of being brainwashed.

IMO, your fiancé is completely brainwashed in the ways of this cult, and she will need some serious “de-programming.” Frankly, I’m shocked that she ever agreed to go out with you, a Catholic. I’m guessing that she felt that she would be able to convert you to “the truth.”

If I were you, I wouldn’t marry someone who is steeped in a cult. I would get out now and thank God for a narrow escape.

Unless…you are willing to go to hell and back to rescue her? Take great care not to get hooked in yourself. Be careful.

Do a lot of research. If your Catholic parish/diocese is ignorant about The Way International, then go talk to the pastors of the large Evangelical Protestant churches in your area and gather as much information as you can.

When I say “Evangelical Protestant,” I am talking about the Protestant churches that are NOT mainline denominations. Don’t go talk to the Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Reformed, Methodists, Congregationalist, United Church of Christ…all the “old” churches. These churches will not have useful information for you about The Way International, and even worse, they might tell you that “as long as there is love, you are doing the right thing.” Baloney. Your soul is at stake.

Go see the pastors of Baptist, Covenant, Evangelical Free, Assemblies of God, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and other pastors of churches that are part of the National Association of Evangelicals. These are the Evangelical Protestant denominations, and they will have the information about The Way International that you need.

You are playing with fire here–do not go in without adequate protection, which includes thorough education.
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Thank you for your post. I was beginning to think that no one knew that “The Way International” is a cult.
They do NOT believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is God, and use much control over their members.
 
phil19034 said:
Talk to the priest, with her, about what this minister said. It’s a shame how anti-Catholic these people often are. Show her that a Catholic priest would never have behaved that way. Show her how they don’t view us a Christian, etc. The priest might not be able to tell her what to say to this minister, but perhaps his compassion will help.
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I honestly can’t imagine a Catholic priest taking part in a wedding ceremony being done by another faith.

I don’t think it is wrong for the other minister to refuse to take part in a Catholic ceremony, or to speak frankly with a member of their flock about marrying out of the faith.

I would expect a Catholic priest to do the same, not smile and go along merrily with someone marrying in another Church etc.
 
schaeffer said:
I honestly can’t imagine a Catholic priest taking part in a wedding ceremony being done by another faith.

I don’t think it is wrong for the other minister to refuse to take part in a Catholic ceremony, or to speak frankly with a member of their flock about marrying out of the faith.

I would expect a Catholic priest to do the same, not smile and go along merrily with someone marrying in another Church etc.
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Yes.

Frankly, I find it surprising that the OP is surprised by this.

And as others have addressed, there are more issues to work through than merely working out the ceremony.
 
schaeffer said:
I honestly can’t imagine a Catholic priest taking part in a wedding ceremony being done by another faith.

I don’t think it is wrong for the other minister to refuse to take part in a Catholic ceremony, or to speak frankly with a member of their flock about marrying out of the faith.

I would expect a Catholic priest to do the same, not smile and go along merrily with someone marrying in another Church etc.
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Furthermore, even if this protestant minister wanted to participate, he would not be allowed to read the gospel, nor could he give a blessing since he has no power to bless anyone or anything.
 
cloiser said:
The night after the meeting we met with my fiance’s religious group leader to share the news and ask him to read the gospel or offer a blessing at the wedding.
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Actually, it’s a good thing he said no, because he cannot do either of these things during the Catholic Marriage Rite. Only a priest or deacon can read the gospel, and he cannot give a blessing in a liturgical context.

He would certainly be able to give a blessing of some sort at the reception-- perhaps leading grace before the meal or some other prayer-- or giving some remarks or other reading, etc.
cloiser said:
My fiance was quite heartbroken, crying and sobbing like I have not seen before. My fiance believe this is her own fault and she should not have wavered in her faith.
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So, how will children be raised? As a Catholic you are obligated to raise your children Catholic. Is she aware of this? Does she understand this obligation?
cloiser said:
I am wondering how to approach this situation. I don’t follow how a sola scriptura Christian minister could be opposed to reading from the Bible or offering a blessing at a wedding.
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I’d drop it, since he actually cannot do what you are proposing. Or I’d ask him to do something at the reception. Do you even know if he’d be willing to attend the wedding or reception?

I don’t think you are going to change his mind if he views this as something he cannot do as the leader of their religious community (such as it is).
 
schaeffer said:
I honestly can’t imagine a Catholic priest taking part in a wedding ceremony being done by another faith.

I don’t think it is wrong for the other minister to refuse to take part in a Catholic ceremony, or to speak frankly with a member of their flock about marrying out of the faith.

I would expect a Catholic priest to do the same, not smile and go along merrily with someone marrying in another Church etc.
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The Church allows for dispensation from form for Catholics marrying non-Catholics.

Catholic priests may attend the weddings of their Catholic flock who receive a dispensation from form to be married in a non-Catholic ceremony.

They are often invited to lead a prayer, give a blessing, etc. The Church has guidelines regarding what they can and cannot do in this context.

They cannot “co-celebrate” the wedding. They cannot receive the vows. But they can attend and they can say a prayer or something like that.
 
I wouldn’t call The Way Protestant Christianity; they deny the Trinity. I also wouldn’t call it a “sola scriptura” belief system, either, since they want you to study the sect’s texts before you crack open your Bible. Admittedly, my information comes from Wikipedia:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_International
 
Lost_Sheep said:
I hesitate to say this, but I think you and your fiancee need to work out a few issues before going through with this marriage. It seems obvious that she still has a strong loyalty to her faith despite her willingness to compromise and be understanding and and respectful to Catholicism. She may be OK with a “Catholic” marriage, but what about your religious differences in the future?

Seriously, you need to think this through some more.
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Yes, you may need to have some counseling from a Catholic priest first. If your fiancée is so devoted to her religion she will want to raise your children in this faith. Have you considered those consequences?
 
tskrobacz said:
Any problem with Catholic teachings is a problem with the Trinity, not with Rome as the church is simply the messenger of Jesus and the tradition.
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Thank you for your response, I have made effort to explain and show the biblical basis for the Trinity and it seems to take hold in my fiance’s mind, however she has really been heavily indoctrinated by the teachings of Victor Paul Wierwille which are very radical in their teaching against the Trinity
 
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