Non Catholic Religions

[DD2007]

It’s interesting that there is a Non Catholic Religions section and no Protestant section.

Does this site consider Protestant Christianity to be a different religion that Roman Catholicism or a different tradition within the same religion of Christianity? In other words, does it consider protestants to be part of the Christian Church Universal?

I have been to other sites where they listed Roman Catholics as a different religion than Christianity and the Roman Catholics protested.

 

[Siddhartha]

It’s interesting that there is a Non Catholic Religions section and no Protestant section.

Protestants are non-Catholics.

Does this site consider Protestant Christianity to be a different religion that Roman Catholicism or a different tradition within the same religion of Christianity? In other words, does it consider protestants to be part of the Christian Church Universal?

Protestantism is a religion, one of the many religions that constitute the Christian tradition. Protestantism is also non-Catholic. Thus, Protestantism is a non-Catholic religion.

I have been to other sites where they listed Roman Catholics as a different religion than Christianity and the Roman Catholics protested.

Protestantism is a different religion than Catholicism, true. Protestantism is not a different religion than Christianity.

 

[DD2007]

Protestantism is a different religion than Catholicism, true. Protestantism is not a different religion than Christianity.

So you are saying that Catholicism isn’t part of the Christian religion?

 

[LilyM]

So you are saying that Catholicism isn’t part of the Christian religion?

Not at all, we’re saying that Protestantism isn’t part of the Catholic (with a big C) branch of the Christian religion. Hence we call it ‘non-Catholic’ but not ‘non-Christian’.

“Catholic” and “Christian” aren’t interchangeable words.

Would you object to Roman Catholicism being described as ‘non-Calvinist’? What we’re doing is exactly the same.

 

[DD2007]

No, we’re saying that Protestantism isn’t part of the Catholic branch of the Christian religion. Hence we call it ‘non-Catholic’ but not ‘non-Christian’.

Would you object to Catholicism being listed under ‘non-Lutheran religions’?

Using the word religions after non and Lutheran would be a miscommunication entirely when one is speaking of other denominations within the christian religion.

You should have a forum called Non Christian Religions and a forum called Non Catholic Denominations.

Then people would think that you were claiming to be part of the christian religion instead of a separate religion called catholicism.

 

[kristanl]

Well… The reason it is called Non-Catholic religions is because this is a Catholic site. So when they put Non- Catholic religions it is open to everyone. Not just Christians.
Hope this helps

 

[LilyM]

Using the word religions after non and Lutheran would be a miscommunication entirely when one is speaking of other denominations within the christian religion.

You should have a forum called Non Christian Religions and a forum called Non Catholic Denominations.

Then people would think that you were claiming to be part of the christian religion instead of a separate religion called catholicism.

Oh I get it now. I thought you were objecting to the use of the word ‘Catholic’ and not the use of the word ‘religion’. I’ve come across non-Catholic Christians in the past who think we shouldn’t monopolise the term ‘catholic’, and insist that they are just as catholic as anyone.

But in all honesty I’ve never come across any other non-Catholic Christian, on these fora or outside of them, who has been offended by the use of ‘religion’ as opposed to ‘denomination’.

‘Religion’, as defined in the various dictionaries I’ve just looked up, simply refers to a spiritual belief system, which may be insitutionalised or not. It is every bit as valid, by those definitions, to call Calvinism, Lutheranism or Protestantism a ‘religion’, since each grouping involves particular, even unique, beliefs and is based around different institutions to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Put it this way, whatever terminology we use someone is going to get upset or offended.

For example, if we did as you suggest, where would we put the Mormons, JWs and so on? They say they’re Christians, but for most Christians their beliefs are SO very different that they’d be hesitant to label them merely as a ‘denomination’.

 

[Corki]

Using the word religions after non and Lutheran would be a miscommunication entirely when one is speaking of other denominations within the christian religion.

You should have a forum called Non Christian Religions and a forum called Non Catholic Denominations.

Non Catholic Denominations would be redundant. The Catholic Church is not a denomination.

Then people would think that you were claiming to be part of the christian religion instead of a separate religion called catholicism.

While there are some Protestants that claim that Catholics are not Christians , I think everyone understands that Catholics themselves understand Catholics to be Christians.

The point of the NC Religion forum is to dialog about traditions other than the Catholic Faith tradition. So it doesn’t matter for the purpose of the forum if that other tradition is Protestant or non-Christian.

BTW “you” in your case would be the creators of CAF not the posters. We didn’t design the forums, we just live here.

 

[twopekinguys]

Using the word religions after non and Lutheran would be a miscommunication entirely when one is speaking of other denominations within the christian religion.

You should have a forum called Non Christian Religions and a forum called Non Catholic Denominations.

Then people would think that you were claiming to be part of the christian religion instead of a separate religion called catholicism.

I’m confused here.

Are you thinking/saying that Catholics aren’t Christians?

 

[LilyM]

I’m confused here.

Are you thinking/saying that Catholics aren’t Christians?

No - he’s thinking/saying that by calling non-Catholic branches of Christianity ‘non-Catholic religions’ instead of ‘non-Catholic denominations’ that WE are saying THEY aren’t Christians. Which isn’t true, of course.

 

[DD2007]

Oh I get it now. I thought you were objecting to the use of the word ‘Catholic’ and not the use of the word ‘religion’. I’ve come across non-Catholic Christians in the past who think we shouldn’t monopolise the term ‘catholic’, and insist that they are just as catholic as anyone.

But in all honesty I’ve never come across any other non-Catholic Christian, on these fora or outside of them, who has been offended by the use of ‘religion’ as opposed to ‘denomination’.

‘Religion’, as defined in the various dictionaries I’ve just looked up, simply refers to a spiritual belief system, which may be insitutionalised or not. It is every bit as valid, by those definitions, to call Calvinism, Lutheranism or Protestantism a ‘religion’, since each grouping involves particular, even unique, beliefs and is based around different institutions to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Put it this way, whatever terminology we use someone is going to get upset or offended.

For example, if we did as you suggest, where would we put the Mormons, JWs and so on? They say they’re Christians, but for most Christians their beliefs are SO very different that they’d be hesitant to label them merely as a ‘denomination’.

Mormons and JW’s would certainly fall under the Non Christian Religions Forum. To be part of the Christian religion your sect must not teach anything opposed to the Apostles or Nicene creeds. If the Trinity is not recognized then the sect obviously doesn’t know God.

I’m not ofended. My understanding of the word religion means the actual religion not just a sect of it. In other words sunnis and shiites are both unfortunately sects in the religion of Islam. Baptists and Methodists are both sects within the Christian religion…etc

 

[DD2007]

No - he’s thinking/saying that by calling non-Catholic branches of Christianity ‘non-Catholic religions’ instead of ‘non-Catholic denominations’ that WE are saying THEY aren’t Christians. Which isn’t true, of course.

Sort of. I thought you guys were saying you were Catholics and we are Christians as in different religions. I actually have audibly heard people say that before…

 

[LilyM]

Mormons and JW’s would certainly fall under the Non Christian Religions Forum. To be part of the Christian religion your sect must not teach anything opposed to the Apostles or Nicene creeds. If the Trinity is not recognized then the sect obviously doesn’t know God.

I’m not ofended. My understanding of the word religion means the actual religion not just a sect of it. In other words sunnis and shiites are both unfortunately sects in the religion of Islam. Baptists and Methodists are both sects within the Christian religion…etc

Well in that case your understanding of the word religion is narrower than the dictionary definition, and hence narrower than acceptable usage.

For that matter the same can be said of your definition of Christianity. All followers of Christ can be called “Christians” and thus all their faith systems can be put under the umbrella of “Christianity” - regardless of whether they accept the Apostles and Nicene Creeds or not. I’m not saying I personally would go so far, but it’s not incorrect.

 

[DD2007]

Well in that case your understanding of the word religion is narrower than the dictionary definition, and hence narrower than acceptable usage.

For that matter the same can be said of your definition of Christianity. All followers of Christ can be called “Christians” and thus all their faith systems can be put under the umbrella of “Christianity” - regardless of whether they accept the Apostles and Nicene Creeds or not. I’m not saying I personally would go so far, but it’s not incorrect.

If a person doesn’t recognize the Trinity they aren’t a follower of Christ.

 

[sixofseven]

If a person doesn’t recognize the Trinity they aren’t a follower of Christ.

Hi DD2007 - I’ve run into you again!

I think some Catholics might say the same about those who do not recognise the Real Presence.

And some Catholics have also audibly heard other people say that Catholics are not Christian.

It’s very diffucult to please everyone!!

 

[LilyM]

If a person doesn’t recognize the Trinity they aren’t a follower of Christ.

‘I have other sheep which are not of this fold’.

I think you’re being a little too rigid in your definition of Christianity brother.

 

[DD2007]

That’s your own interpretation of what it means to fit under the definition of ‘follower of Christ’.

Why isn’t it yours?

 

[LilyM]

Why isn’t it yours?

I refer you to my edited comments above. They love Christ, and for that reason alone I’m not going to brand them as un-Christian. ‘Whoever gives you so much as a cup of water in My name, he shall not lose his reward’.

 

[DD2007]

I refer you to my edited comments above. They love Christ, and for that reason alone I’m not going to brand them as un-Christian. ‘Whoever gives you so much as a cup of water in My name, he shall not lose his reward’.

Well a follower of Christ will believe that Christ is God incarnate and will follow his teachings which include that his Father, Himself, and the Holy Spirit are all three divine.

The Mormons and the JWs deny the deity of Christ and cannot be called Christians because of that. The JW’s went so far as to change the scriptures and publish their own version that changed every verse that deals with the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Mormons have a different bible that they use in adition to the bible.

God says through the pen of the apostle Paul they are accursed. That means they can’t be christians.

Galatians 1:9 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

The gospel says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ in addition to clearly teaching his deity.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Does anyone you know teach contrary to that original Pauline teaching, besides mormons and jws obviously?

 

[LilyM]

Well a follower of Christ will believe that Christ is God incarnate and will follow his teachings which include that his Father, Himself, and the Holy Spirit are all three divine.

The Mormons and the JWs deny the deity of Christ and cannot be called Christians because of that. The JW’s went so far as to change the scriptures and publish their own version that changed every verse that deals with the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. The Mormons have a different bible that they use in adition to the bible.

God says through the pen of the apostle Paul they are accursed. That means they can’t be christians.

Galatians 1:9 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

The gospel says we are saved by grace through faith in Christ in addition to clearly teaching his deity.

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Does anyone you know teach contrary to that original Pauline teaching, besides mormons and jws obviously?

Very nice. Yet Paul commended the Athenians for worshipping his God, the one true God, even though they knew Him not.

Surely it is equally possible to serve and follow Christ without perfectly knowing Him - for if full knowledge of Him were required then none of us has it!