Non-Catholics and Confession

[mercygate]

Montana, although the one-size-fits-all attitude of most RCIA programs is questionable, do not underestimate the value of accepting an apparently pointless wait with humility.

Part of the disernment process involves doing “whatever it takes.” The graces imparted by the exercise of hopeful patience cannot be overestimated.

 

[montanaman]

mercygate:

Montana, although the one-size-fits-all attitude of most RCIA programs is questionable, do not underestimate the value of accepting an apparently pointless wait with humility.

Part of the disernment process involves doing “whatever it takes.” The graces imparted by the exercise of hopeful patience cannot be overestimated.

Again, I don’t underestimate it. But this is one Catholic to another speaking, so we’re in our own little (or universal, actually) bubble where we speak the same language, etc.

Imagine this not-so-hypothetical situation: An unchurched person realizes he wants to be Christian, or at least “spiritual,” and his walk leads him to a couple of options. #1, he has these friends who say, “Come to our Bible-based church. We have great fellowship and constant Bible studies.” #2, he has a Catholic buddy who says, "Come to RCIA, sit through months and months of lukewarm teaching that raises more questions than answers.

Yes, this is an oversimplification, but still a reality experienced by tons of people. I’m not saying that we need to baptise, confirm, confess and commune these people when they first walk through the Church door, but meeting people on their own level is CRUCIAL to a fruitful walk and lasting faith. Given the realities of the priest shortage and lack of good people willing to devote after-hours time, the one-size-fits-all approach is really the only thing we can do right now. But, there’s a better way. It just takes more time and more people. I think I see a trend developing in the Catholic world toward this, though.

 

[mercygate]

montanaman:

Again, I don’t underestimate it. But this is one Catholic to another speaking, so we’re in our own little (or universal, actually) bubble where we speak the same language, etc.

Imagine this not-so-hypothetical situation: An unchurched person realizes he wants to be Christian, or at least “spiritual,” and his walk leads him to a couple of options. #1, he has these friends who say, “Come to our Bible-based church. We have great fellowship and constant Bible studies.” #2, he has a Catholic buddy who says, "Come to RCIA, sit through months and months of lukewarm teaching that raises more questions than answers.

Yes, this is an oversimplification, but still a reality experienced by tons of people. I’m not saying that we need to baptise, confirm, confess and commune these people when they first walk through the Church door, but meeting people on their own level is CRUCIAL to a fruitful walk and lasting faith. Given the realities of the priest shortage and lack of good people willing to devote after-hours time, the one-size-fits-all approach is really the only thing we can do right now. But, there’s a better way. It just takes more time and more people. I think I see a trend developing in the Catholic world toward this, though.

All true. But your girlfriend has you! C’mon! That’s a plus. And she has all of us – many of whom endured similar frustrations with “the process.” Even when I was a the peak of my whining about having to go through the process, I whimpered, “I’ll do whatever it takes.”

 

[montanaman]

mercygate:

All true. But your girlfriend has you! C’mon! That’s a plus. And she has all of us – many of whom endured similar frustrations with “the process.” Even when I was a the peak of my whining about having to go through the process, I whimpered, “I’ll do whatever it takes.”

I think she’s in that boat, too. One great big reason why I love her is that she’s the most faithful, sincere person I’ve ever met. She knows that if she were to leave the RCIA process she’d still be left with all these pro-Catholicism questions.

 

[CollegeKid]

mercygate:

Not to quibble, but accepting the Church’s teaching on the Sacrament is not enough. In order to receive a Sacrament of the Church, it is necessary to accept all the teachings of the Church, not just one of them. Clearly, this young lady is well on her way.

Good point, agreed.

 

[NPS]

MM, I’m a little confused here. You say she is “in RCIA” but is only inquiring:

montanaman:

We’ve been dating for about a year and a half, and now she’s in RCIA–mostly at the “inquiry” level, but wanting to want to join.

And she insists on going to reconciliation?

It seems to me that there are two things to discuss here:

1-When/if should non-Catholics receive the sacrament of reconciliation?

2-How should RCIA be structured?

It seems on the surface of it that she’s not ready for reconciliation. First you say she’s inquiring, then…

She’s willing to go through the process, though, because she wants to make sure she knows what she’s getting into. But, if the Church believes the Sacraments are such important means of grace, then what’s the real, solid, non-negotiable reason for holding them out of reach? She’s ready to convert! she says. Do you want me or not?

No offense here bud, but Does she want to convert or not?

If she is definite about it then it’s one thing, but if she’s only thinking about it and mulling it over and wondering if she should, that’s another.

If she does want to become Catholic then she should receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation–there is no reason to wait provided the priest is satified of her intentions. She has to confess mortal sins committed since baptism before receiving confirmation and the Eucharist.

To be blunt about it—she shouldn’t be on the schedule of those not yet baptized. Those are the rules, it’s just—as usual–the rules are not followed correctly.

It’s certainly not some Catholic Black Hole that she’s discovered—no offense intended—it’s more of a case of the RCIA people not following the Statutes for the Catechumenate, which clearly state that there is a distinct difference in baptized/non-baptized.

A lot of parishes have gone to the September-Easter schedule of RCIA and put all the baptized and non-baptized on the same schedule, which if I remember correctly (i’m sick today–and wondering how many mistakes i am making ) the Statutes state that they should be seperated as far as schedule goes even to the point of saying that those already Christian (i.e. baptized) should not be fully accepted at the Easter Vigil as the non-baptized are, but rather in a different ceremony.

Once she decides she definitely wants to be Catholic, she should be in direct contact with the priest in regards to how much “Catholic instruction she needs” and to get an idea of a schedule that the priest believes is appropriate for her.

Those are the rules, whether your exact RCIA program goes by them or not…???

Even if they don’t though----and your RCIA says “wait till Easter” etc—she should be able to get on schedule as far as where the rest of 'em are. If she desires it—Easter is just around the corner.

 

[montanaman]

All good points, This…er…NPS.

Short version (because I’ve been at a useless Franklin Covey seminar all day long): She was initially in the “inquiry” stage, then not so long ago said she wanted to move into the formal “I’m in” stage, but was recently starting to lose heart and a little faith in it. She was frustrated by the remedial pace of RCIA and the apparent contradiction between the Church’s claim of being “IT” for Christians and it’s casual conversion process.

However, now that she’s talked to the priest, she’s back on schedule. I’ve been careful about forcing any issues, and my instinct was right for a change. I stayed out of the way, pointed the way when necessary, and she found the answers. Last night she told me something she hasn’t said since this whole process began: “I’m getting fired up about this now.”

Awesome.

But I will try to clarify with her about her desire to Confess and her intent to become Catholic. I agree–if she doesn’t want to become Catholic, or isn’t sure, then why would she be convinced of the efficacy of Confession?

 

[NPS]

montanaman:

All good points, This…er…NPS.

Short version (because I’ve been at a useless Franklin Covey seminar all day long): She was initially in the “inquiry” stage, then not so long ago said she wanted to move into the formal “I’m in” stage, but was recently starting to lose heart and a little faith in it. She was frustrated by the remedial pace of RCIA and the apparent contradiction between the Church’s claim of being “IT” for Christians and it’s casual conversion process.

However, now that she’s talked to the priest, she’s back on schedule. I’ve been careful about forcing any issues, and my instinct was right for a change. I stayed out of the way, pointed the way when necessary, and she found the answers. Last night she told me something she hasn’t said since this whole process began: “I’m getting fired up about this now.”

Awesome.

But I will try to clarify with her about her desire to Confess and her intent to become Catholic. I agree–if she doesn’t want to become Catholic, or isn’t sure, then why would she be convinced of the efficacy of Confession?

If she knows what she wants, becoming Catholic could happen faster than she anticipates (“Hello…Dad?” ) but at this point they would likely put her on the Easter schedule with the non-baptized, and either add her in after the baptisms (Easter Vigil) or do it another day.

I know exactly what you mean by the letdown that RCIA attendees must sometimes feel. This is their entry into that big historical, wonderful church that has loomed over them in one way or another their whole life and they are excited to be getting started!!!----and they get there and it’s often a half-***d affair led by unknowledgeable instructors and sometimes with not even a priest in sight. This may sound funny and unneccesary to some–but—those people really want to meet a priest at the initial class or classes. It means a lot to them. And if the person leading the class can’t effectively answer the question----
people think “This is it? This is the church that has come down through the ages from the apostles?”

They really expect to be taught correctly and thoroughly all the “Catholic things” they have peripherally known and heard about for years. And they should.

Some RCIA programs are absolutely fantastic. Some…are not.
Is it because more often than not the “converts” are simply those getting ready for marriage and the whole program gets sort of put on the back burner?

Overall, though, I think the RCIA programs are changing for the better. Slowly, slowly, slowly, but perhaps surely.

After all…one of these days we’ll have Montanaman and his wife teaching at their local parish.