Non-Catholics and Mortal Sin...

[rinnie]

Here is something that I think everyone needs to think about. Trust me when I heard it I don’t think I want to ever open even my mouth again.

Father said this the other day on EWTN. Everyone needs to hear this.

He said you can commit the same sin and have different results.

He said like in human law and the law of God.

He said you can hit me, and be held to one court.

But he said if you hit Obama you are held in Federal court because the same sin, but because he is the President.

Now here is where the teaching gets real ugly.

When you hurt me you are hurting a sinner. But did you know when you hurt me you are also hurting God!

The bigger sin, is you are hurting God, not me.

Same sin, Boy don’t that get you thinking?

 

[Kristin234]

Thanks Rinnie for explaining it

 

[fred_conty]

I understand your argument, and incidentally support sacramental confession, yet I have never been given an satisfactory explanation as to why one must confess one’s sins to a priest to be forgiven. It seems to be this thing we do and nobody knows why.

“It’s because it’s so hard to repent of one’s sins in a state of perfect contrition,” one might argue, but it still never really answers the burning question.

It seems to me that at the time of St. Paul, the early church, really didn’t envision a person seriously sinning after baptism. Maybe this is the reason why we do not SEE confession in the early church as such or for that matter in the bible. It may have been there, but just not displayed. However the church did have the anointing of the sick which also forgave sins.

Sin after baptism became a controversy as to how to handle it. Is a person “out” forever?
Is there any way back? And if there is, how is that possible and how should it be done?
There seemed to be a growing concern as time went on for those who betrayed their baptism and to help them find a way back.

In this I am saying what I’ve observed for myself, not what the church teaches.

However, when a way back was sought, I believe in north Africa, it first was made on behalf of those who actually denied their faith in pursecution. So the bishops decided to make them do public penance for a time, and then receive them publicly in a ceremony in the church.

After this it seems that the form of private confession was inaugurated from public.

But the central point it seems to me is that it is not how confession developed, or when, or where, or how. But rather the fact of the power of forgiveness was given to the church from the very beginning when Jesus breathed on his apostles and said they had the power to forgive or not to forgive. That is the eye of the hurricane. All other questions and developements are because of this divine power to be exorcised thu his church. And it is the church which answers this question and decides how this power is to be administered.

The church today teaches in our modern times that a catholic can be forgiven a serious sin by the sacrament of forgiveness, thru fear, or thru love. Outside the sacrament, a catholic may be forgiven a serious sin only thru love and with the promise of receiving the sacrament as soon as they can within the near future if possible, with the additional understanding that they may not receive the Sacred Eucharist until they do.

If the church wishes, it could change conditions again because it has the ultimate power of the keys in whatever way the church, representing Christ on earth, may decide for the salvation of his people.

As far as our protestant brothers, I feel that is left to the divine mercy and goodness to decide. I pray for them every day as I hope they pray for me every day.

And Jesus said,“Which is greater, to say arise and walk, or to say you’re sins are forgiven?”

Just a few thoughts on his mercy with us.

 

[tmyers]

It seems to me that at the time of St. Paul, the early church, really didn’t envision a person seriously sinning after baptism. Maybe this is the reason why we do not SEE confession in the early church as such or for that matter in the bible. It may have been there, but just not displayed. However the church did have the anointing of the sick which also forgave sins.

Sin after baptism became a controversy as to how to handle it. Is a person “out” forever?
Is there any way back? And if there is, how is that possible and how should it be done?
There seemed to be a growing concern as time went on for those who betrayed their baptism and to help them find a way back.

In this I am saying what I’ve observed for myself, not what the church teaches.

However, when a way back was sought, I believe in north Africa, it first was made on behalf of those who actually denied their faith in pursecution. So the bishops decided to make them do public penance for a time, and then receive them publicly in a ceremony in the church.

After this it seems that the form of private confession was inaugurated from public.

But the central point it seems to me is that it is not how confession developed, or when, or where, or how. But rather the fact of the power of forgiveness was given to the church from the very beginning when Jesus breathed on his apostles and said they had the power to forgive or not to forgive. That is the eye of the hurricane. All other questions and developements are because of this divine power to be exorcised thu his church. And it is the church which answers this question and decides how this power is to be administered.

The church today teaches in our modern times that a catholic can be forgiven a serious sin by the sacrament of forgiveness, thru fear, or thru love. Outside the sacrament, a catholic may be forgiven a serious sin only thru love and with the promise of receiving the sacrament as soon as they can within the near future if possible, with the additional understanding that they may not receive the Sacred Eucharist until they do.

If the church wishes, it could change conditions again because it has the ultimate power of the keys in whatever way the church, representing Christ on earth, may decide for the salvation of his people.

As far as our protestant brothers, I feel that is left to the divine mercy and goodness to decide. I pray for them every day as I hope they pray for me every day.

And Jesus said,“Which is greater, to say arise and walk, or to say you’re sins are forgiven?”

Just a few thoughts on his mercy with us.

Can I hear an Amen!!!
Thank you so much for this, you basically wrote much of what I wrote, but summarized it all more concisely. You’re great!

God Bless!!!

 

[Reuben_J]

Conor7:

You didn’t fail me!

I don’t know that I’m unwilling to accept it, but I am struggling with the implications of it all. It means no non-christians, extraordinarily few Prostestants, and a minority of Catholics go to heaven.

More than anything, it leaves me with a crisis of faith.

This is interesting. There are some posts with this nature but this is the nearest and so I use it as a reference.

I can understand why non-Catholics have this attitude toward the Catholic doctrine on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. If this is any consolation, it has to be said here that far from being it that few Christians will go to heaven. They do if they believe in the Son and live their lives accordingly.

The Catholic Church is perhaps the only Church that categorically emphasizes that anyone can be saved and probably has this verse in mind in doing so - “But that anybody of any nationality who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to him” Acts 10:35. This passage follows where the Holy Spirit poured on the gentiles even before they were baptized.

There are people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike who do not have the privilege and the opportunity to have priest to absolve them in the said Sacrament due to many different circumstances. We know that these are not deprived of heaven for that is God’s prerogative.

 

[Reuben_J]

Then of course it can be asked, why the need at all to go for Confession?

I find it easier if we approach it from the aspect of the Church being a body of community. Living the faith is actually a journey and we have to live it somewhere. Jesus has given us some guideline as to how that community would be.

Confession is actually for growth of a Christian. Being Sacrament it is a grace. Being a Catholic who goes through all this, confession is a highly uplifting and edifying experience for growth. It is not just a question of going to hell or not as many Catholics would like to say but rather a grace for growth.

Not going for Confession for mortal sin is only a problem when one lives in an established community, where you are a member of a parish and where the church and priests are readily available. When that is so, you are to participate and live accordingly. So are your children Baptism, marriage or funeral.

But if you are a lumber jack living in a remote continent where not a single soul is Christian let alone a church, there is no way where you can receive the Sacraments. Or when you are dying but a priest is not available to minister the Sacrament. Ultimately the mercy and the forgiveness of God prevails when there is a repentant soul.

 

[poorsinner7]

My understanding about the history of confession is that it was not always readily available as it is today. But it was maybe made available only once in a person’s life, or something to that degree. Many used to not baptize their children so that they could use that as a sort of “get out of jail” card because confession is not required when one is first initiated into the life of Christ through baptism. And after many years of struggling with the concept of sin, venial and mortal and how to determine how far one must go in order to know if it is mortal, I’ve learned to just turn my fate over to God by completely submitting to Him. I just confess my sins, not really knowing which are mortal and which are venial. Some I know, others I just question and others I have no clue as I have learned to concept of culpability, new to me. It’s not really salvation I seek as much as it is simply not wanting to offend God. But I say to myself, my life is an offense to God and therefore there is nothing I can do to about it. So, instead of simply throwing in the towel like some, or reducing the faith down to non-Catholic beliefs, I try to go to confession at least every 2 or three months, preferably every 3 or 4 weeks. I see my relationship with God as a marriage, where my spouse is always right and I’m always wrong. But I depend on His mercy to help me through the rough spots. Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a man, but then I remember that God created me and loves me. But I don’t ever allow myself to take advantage of my wonderful spouse, just as I don’t take advantage of my actual spouse. Kind of strange, but I’m learning. I know for a fact now after confession that some of my sins are a reflection of physiological problems I used to torment myself over. I still feel bad, but believe there will be another time very near when I will again be able to resist the sins that taunt me. I think God’s teaching me something about myself and my view of those who have hurt me in my past. I need to forgive them completely and pray for their souls, since they are now forever in eternity, hopefully in God’s grace.