Non-Catholics : Catholicism Pros and Cons

  • Thread starter Thread starter utunumsint
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
U

utunumsint

Guest
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

I may follow up on the points for greater clarity of understanding, but I’m hoping that this thread will not degenerate into arguments. I’d like this thread to be more of a discussion. An exchange of ideas. If you’d like to challange what someone wrote, I would appreaciate it if you would open a new thread and link to it from here. Questions like, why do you believe X, Y or Z are good.

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
God bless you, as well, Ut.

That I like:
  1. Their reverence for the Eucharist
  2. While a little overdone at times, I like their respect and love for the BVM and saints.
That I disagree with:
  1. Papal “authority”, which seems to be a thorn not only for protestants, but also Orthodox
  2. With some, not all, a bit of an air of “greater than thou” pridefulness. Of course, some of us are guilty of that, too. :o
Jon
 
OK…I’ll play
1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)
Click to expand...
(1) Your moral theology. I find I am in agreement with 95% of it. Especially pro-life.

(2) Your pope John Paul II, Mother Theresa, and even pope Benedictus although I know less about him.
2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂
Click to expand...
(1) A superior attitude for belonging to the “one true church” and the arrogance, condescension, and disdain towards non-Catholic Christians this attitude produces. Yeah, not all of your are like that, but too many IMHO are like that, and it really, really, really sours my opinion of your faith.

(2) Probably most of the standard stuff that Protestants and Catholics debate ad-nauseum, although I am not all that convinced this stuff is as important as it is made out to be by either side. Number 1 is probably a bigger one.
 
utunumsint said:
1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
  1. Pro-life officially.
    Feeding poor people.
  2. The major Catholic pols are not pro-life. You should kick them out.
    History of not supporting religious liberty.
 
Ok, I’ll play too 😉

I like gregorian chants and the monastic traditions.

I dislike the new Mass (hand holding, silly songs, bands, speaking in tongues…etc). And I dislike holding hands.
 
OOPS,
I thought the question was for Catholics!😃
I’m a Catholic.
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)
Click to expand...
I really like the devotion to social justice and especially to pro life issues.

I sincerely admire the acceptance of the Magisterium
2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂
Click to expand...
The absolute certitude that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only valid church.

The remarkable denigration of disparate views of Christian faith, or any other faith.

(those are very close to the same thing, but different)
 
Pros:
– Strong sense of the Holiness of God and a sense of reverence for Him (I think this is often under emphasized among evangelical denominations)
– Strong in the area of Church organization and discipline.

Cons:
– Seems prone to legalism at times, places barriers to unity by requiring uniformity on some concepts which aren’t clear from Scripture and aren’t fundamental to the faith
– Seems prone to placing the Church and the clergy as the mediators between God and man rather than emphasizing the direct access we have to God.
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
Pros:
– Strong sense of the Holiness of God and a sense of reverence for Him (I think this is often under emphasized among evangelical denominations)
– Strong in the area of Church organization and discipline.

Cons:
Seems prone to legalism at times, places barriers to unity by requiring uniformity on some concepts which aren’t clear from Scripture and aren’t fundamental to the faith

Seems prone to placing the Church and the clergy as the mediators between God and man rather than emphasizing the direct access we have to God

My emphasis

To be fair, this is Biblical 🙂

2Thes:15 + 1 Tim 4:14

Viz:Jn 3:5; Jn 6:58, 59; 1Cor: 11:29; Lk 22:19; Jn 20:23;
Js: 5:14,15;

Blessings and peace
Click to expand...
 
This is great feedback. Thank you all for your posts, and keep them coming! 🙂

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

I may follow up on the points for greater clarity of understanding, but I’m hoping that this thread will not degenerate into arguments. I’d like this thread to be more of a discussion. An exchange of ideas. If you’d like to challange what someone wrote, I would appreaciate it if you would open a new thread and link to it from here. Questions like, why do you believe X, Y or Z are good.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Like: The eucharist, and the liturgy.
Dislike: While I do not have a problem with having a pope, I am hesitant to accept the idea that when the pope speaks of morals and faith he is considered to be infallible. And I do not agree, at least 100%, with the catholic view of sanctification.

Besides these things, I don’t have any major “differences” that are worth “arguing” about.
 
utunumsint said:
two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)
Click to expand...
  1. The clear and unambiguous declaration that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present in the Eucharist.👍
  2. The beauty and grounding in scripture of the Western liturgical rite. 👍
two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable
Click to expand...
  1. The insistence that the only way to understand the Real Presence is through the metaphysical concept of transubstantiation. I don’t think I need Greek philosophical guidance to understand the words “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.”:confused:
  2. The insistence that those of us who are not Catholic are, at best, imperfectly connected to the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.😦
These are a couple of points that get under my skin. Looking at the larger picture, however, I have a good deal of respect for the Catholic Church. 🙂

Well, these are some quick answers to your request.
 
Things that I do like–

Unlike an earlier poster, I do like the music with the guitars and the hand holding during the Lord’s Prayer.👍

Things that I have difficulty with–

Closed Communion to fellow Christians, the Marian Dogmas, and requirement for celibacy for priest.

God Bless!
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

I may follow up on the points for greater clarity of understanding, but I’m hoping that this thread will not degenerate into arguments. I’d like this thread to be more of a discussion. An exchange of ideas. If you’d like to challange what someone wrote, I would appreaciate it if you would open a new thread and link to it from here. Questions like, why do you believe X, Y or Z are good.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Two things I like:
  1. The Real Presence. Absolutely essential to me to be a true Christian and follower of Christ. He instituted a covenant with us, not a symbol.
  2. The adherance to many Early Church customs and traditions. The way the Apostles and the early Christians worshipped. The Communion of Saints, The Sign of The Cross, The vestments, the Gregorian Calender etc. Vitally important to stay focused with those Christians long before us and to stay connected (unbroken through eartly death) with the Communion of Saints.
Two things I don’t like:
  1. The Marian Doctrines. these are supported by and really came from the magisterium and not Scripture. They are unhelpful and distort who Mary really was and is. They not only are not found in Scripture but are in many facets contrary to Scripture. The RCC has elevated Mary to Christ in many ways.
  2. Tradition, Scripture and the Magisterium being equal in authority. Scripture has been here for roughly 2,000 years and unchanged. Tradition must parallel Scripture. In the Catholic church, it far reaches beyond the Scriptures. the Magisterium although claiming to decend from Peter has been despicable at times in history and has declared things in opposition to many of the Early Church fathers. The church needs leadership yes, but infallible and equal to Scripture?? I don’t think so.
 
Here is a summary of the pros so far:

Pro
Post 2
  • Their reverence for the Eucharist
  • While a little overdone at times, I like their respect and love for the BVM and saints.
    Post3
  • Your moral theology. I find I am in agreement with 95% of it. Especially pro- life.
  • Your pope John Paul II, Mother Theresa, and even pope Benedictus although I know less about him.
    Post 4
  • Pro- life officially.
  • Feeding poor people.
    Post 5
  • I like gregorian chants and the monastic traditions.
    Post 7
  • I really like the devotion to social justice and especially to pro life issues.
  • I sincerely admire the acceptance of the Magisterium
    Post 9
  • Strong sense of the Holiness of God and a sense of reverence for Him (I think this is often under emphasized among evangelical denominations)
  • Strong in the area of Church organization and discipline.
    Post 13
  • The eucharist, and the liturgy.
    Post 14
  • The clear and unambiguous declaration that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present in the Eucharist.
  • The beauty and grounding in scripture of the Western liturgical rite.
    Post 15
  • Unlike an earlier poster, I do like the music with the guitars and the hand holding during the Lord’s Prayer.
    Post 16
  • The Real Presence. Absolutely essential to me to be a true Christian and follower of Christ. He instituted a covenant with us, not a symbol.
  • The adherance to many Early Church customs and traditions. The way the Apostles and the early Christians worshipped. The Communion of Saints, The Sign of The Cross, The vestments, the Gregorian Calender etc. Vitally important to stay focused with those Christians long before us and to stay connected (unbroken through eartly death) with the Communion of Saints.
Click to expand...
From a brief scan of this list based on the ten people who posted, several things jump out at me.
  • How many people like our doctrines of the Eucharist (see post 2, 13, 14, and 16 = 40%)
  • How many people like the catholic moral teachings, specifically Pro-life (3, 4, and 7 =30%)
  • And unexpectedly, the liturgy (5, 13, 14, 15, and 16 = 50%)
I find this very encouraging.

God bless,
Ut
 
Here is a summary of the cons:
Con
Post 2
  • Papal “authority”, which seems to be a thorn not only for protestants, but also Orthodox
  • With some, not all, a bit of an air of “greater than thou” pridefulness. Of course, some of us are guilty of that, too.
    Post 3
  • A superior attitude for belonging to the “one true church” and the arrogance, condescension, and disdain towards non- Catholic Christians this attitude produces. Yeah, not all of your are like that, but too many IMHO are like that, and it really, really, really sours my opinion of your faith.
  • Probably most of the standard stuff that Protestants and Catholics debate ad- nauseum, although I am not all that convinced this stuff is as important as it is made out to be by either side. Number 1 is probably a bigger one.
    Post 4
  • The major Catholic pols are not pro- life. You should kick them out.
  • History of not supporting religious liberty.
    Post 5
  • I dislike the new Mass (hand holding, silly songs, bands, speaking in tongues…etc). And I dislike holding hands.
    Post 7
  • The absolute certitude that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only valid church.
  • The remarkable denigration of disparate views of Christian faith, or any other faith.
    Post 9
  • Seems prone to legalism at times, places barriers to unity by requiring uniformity on some concepts which aren’t clear from Scripture and aren’t fundamental to the faith
  • Seems prone to placing the Church and the clergy as the mediators between God and man rather than emphasizing the direct access we have to God.
    Post 13
  • While I do not have a problem with having a pope, I am hesitant to accept the idea that when the pope speaks of morals and faith he is considered to be infallible. And I do not agree, at least 100%, with the catholic view of sanctification.
    Post 14
  • The insistence that the only way to understand the Real Presence is through the metaphysical concept of transubstantiation. I don’t think I need Greek philosophical guidance to understand the words “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.”
  • The insistence that those of us who are not Catholic are, at best, imperfectly connected to the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
    Post 15
  • Closed Communion to fellow Christians, the Marian Dogmas, and requirement for celibacy for priest.
    Post 16
  • The Marian Doctrines. these are supported by and really came from the magisterium and not Scripture. They are unhelpful and distort who Mary really was and is. They not only are not found in Scripture but are in many facets contrary to Scripture. The RCC has elevated Mary to Christ in many ways.
  • Tradition, Scripture and the Magisterium being equal in authority. Scripture has been here for roughly 2,000 years and unchanged. Tradition must parallel Scripture. In the Catholic church, it far reaches beyond the Scriptures. the Magisterium although claiming to decend from Peter has been despicable at times in history and has declared things in opposition to many of the Early Church fathers. The church needs leadership yes, but infallible and equal to Scripture?? I don’t think so.
Click to expand...
There is a lot more to sort through for the cons, but two that people seem to have more of a problem with are Papal authority/infallibility/equality of tradition with scripture, and a very prideful contemptuous attitude (nearly 50% of respondents have this complaint described in various ways).

Although I believe in the truth of the Catholic faith, I think this last point is something us catholics can and should work on. Part of me thinks that pride and arrogance from both sides was more foundational to the protestant reformation that the actual disputed doctrines themselves.

Thank you again. Please keep on posting. Non Christians are also welcome to post. 🙂

God bless,
Ut
 
Lilyflower said:
Seems prone to placing the Church and the clergy as the mediators between God and man rather than emphasizing the direct access we have to God

My emphasis

To be fair, this is Biblical 🙂

2Thes:15 + 1 Tim 4:14

Viz:Jn 3:5; Jn 6:58, 59; 1Cor: 11:29; Lk 22:19; Jn 20:23;
Js: 5:14,15;

Blessings and peace
Click to expand...
There’s a difference between saying that the Church has authority and emphasizing that relationship to God should take place primarily with a priest class as intermediaries. For the sake of this thread however, perhaps you should start a different one if you want to discuss this more in depth. You asked my criticism, and as I said it’s a matter of emphasis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top