Non-Catholics : Catholicism Pros and Cons

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I will try to be as loving as possible.

Likes:
1.) Catholics seem to really uphold and guard the sanctity of traditional marriage.
2.) Major Pro-life advocates

Dislikes:
1.) Lots of traditions and rules that took many years for even the church to officially establish. Then, when they were established, placed Catholics under mortal sin if not followed.

2.) The issue of Justification. Rome shuts the kingdom of heaven to those who desire to enter by woefully deceiving people with the false gospel of works.
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)
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a. Clear moral teaching on issues that are controversial in contemporary society.

b. The insistence on building on/developing the past rather than breaking with it. There are many changes in Catholic history, but no radical ruptures with the past, although some liberal interpreters of Vatican II obviously would like to see it as such a rupture (as would traditionalists).
2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂
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a. Clericalism–treating the ministerial priesthood as something clearly separate from the universal priesthood of the baptized, with the practical result that the laity are not treated as fully members of the Church. Many particular things that one can criticize, from the rejection of women’s ordination to the way Catholic bishops handled the abuse scandals, come under this heading in my opinion.

b. The identification of “the Church” with official doctrinal pronouncements rather than a concrete body of people, with the result that practical failings, issues of liturgy, etc., are seen as less essential, while the historical integrity of Catholic dogma is defended even to the point of disingenuous manipulation of history. (This is related to point a, and the last point is the “dark side” of point 1.b.)

Note that I’m looking at ways in which Catholicism differs from Anglicanism, which is why, for instance, I do not list Catholic sacramentalism as a plus (since our attitude is very similar), and why I am not particularly impressed with Catholic liturgy.

Edwin
 
Lilyflower said:
With Questions;4265389:
OK…I’ll play

Hi With Questions

For my half pennorth worth, my brother in law who is a leader in a non-denom evangelical Church believes the Catholic Church has its origin around about the mid 17th Century or a bit before 😛
Namesake posted:
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Your brother in law is probably right in his assumption regarding the genesis of the Roman Catholic Church. It is believed by many that the modern Roman Church is a product of the Council of Trent, when the Bishops of the Catholic Church in northern Europe abandoned their responsibilities on to the shoulders of the papacy thus abandoning tradition and creating a new Church.
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Contarini said:
a. Clericalism–treating the ministerial priesthood as something clearly separate from the universal priesthood of the baptized, with the practical result that the laity are not treated as fully members of the Church. Many particular things that one can criticize, from the rejection of women’s ordination to the way Catholic bishops handled the abuse scandals, come under this heading in my opinion.
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So you would say there is no ministerial priesthood? Or there is nothing inherently special about priestly ordination?

I think in general, however, I can relate to what you are saying. Priests and bishops are very human people dealing with very great burdens in running a parish or diocese. Some Catholics seem to have the idea that they have super human powers or insight because they are priests. But I agree, they struggle just like everyone else, and some more successfully than others.
b. The identification of “the Church” with official doctrinal pronouncements rather than a concrete body of people, with the result that practical failings, issues of liturgy, etc., are seen as less essential, while the historical integrity of Catholic dogma is defended even to the point of disingenuous manipulation of history. (This is related to point a, and the last point is the “dark side” of point 1.b.)
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So “church” is less about what doctrines it believes than about the people in it? I can agree with this, but I’m not sure I relate to your point in my experience. Are not clear statements of doctrinal belief important for a variety of reasons? I’m just tryign to clarify…

Thanks for this interesting post Edwin. 🙂

God bless,
Ut
 
I’m Catholic, but I responded anyway. . .This is what I used to like and hate before I was Catholic.

Likes:
  1. The Catholic church seemed very mysterious and holy to me.
  2. The Church’s stance on pro-life issues.
Dislikes:
  1. Closed communion. . .I thought the Catholics thought they were better than me. This really used to TICK ME OFF! (Actually, this is what caused me to seek out the reasons for the closed communion and eventually I received faith in the Eucharist and became Catholic!)
  2. The “works-based-faith” aspect of Catholicism. I didn’t like the “rules.” (I had to make peace with this and accept justification through faith plus works in order to be confirmed.)
 
I, too, am a convert, although half my family was Catholic.

As a Baptist, what I liked:
  1. the formality of the liturgy
  2. the devotions and how they kept religion in daily life
What I disliked
1.confession
2.lack of biblical knowledge I saw (and continue to see) in many Catholics. Although an encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible is NOT necessary to be a good Christian, I’ve always felt a better knowledge of the Bible does provide you with more context and validation of why we believe what we do as Christians. I knew many a fellow Baptist that, like me, gave themselves a little self-assuring pat on the back after talking “the Bible” with Catholics.
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

I may follow up on the points for greater clarity of understanding, but I’m hoping that this thread will not degenerate into arguments. I’d like this thread to be more of a discussion. An exchange of ideas. If you’d like to challange what someone wrote, I would appreaciate it if you would open a new thread and link to it from here. Questions like, why do you believe X, Y or Z are good.

God bless,
Ut
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Likes:
  1. Their regard for the Eucharist being the body and blood of Christ.
  2. Their adherring to much of the traditions of the Early Church.
Dislikes:
  1. The office of the pope and it’s definitions according to Catholic theology.
  2. Their over indulgence in reverance for Mary and its definitions according to Catholic theology.
 
Like:

—*liturgy
—*belief in real presence

Dislike:

—*Closed communion
—*belief/attitude that other denominations are lesser and that other clergy are not valid
 
Only TWO things??? Ok, narrowing it down…:hmmm:

Like:
  1. (LOVE) The Eucharist, even when I cannot receive, just being in His presence. In fact all the sacraments - being REAL and not symbolic
  2. The reverence - I really feel like I’m in God’s house when I’m in a Catholic Church - unlike some non-Catholic churches where people slouch about, kick their shoes off, eat and drink…(don’t mean to generalise, just my experience…)
Dislike:
  1. Feel-good homilies - give me some meat! Priests - FEED YOUR SHEEP!
  2. Poor Catechesis in schools and similarly poor Mass attendance by parents of children in said schools. I weep for the future :bighanky:
 
Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of times my church’s pastor has given a real fire and brimstone-type homily.
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings.

I’d like to know more about how non-Catholic perceive us Catholics. To that end, I’d like to invite all non-Catholics to

1-post two things they like about Catholicism (or at least don’t hate about Catholicism)

2-and two things they dislike about Catholicism. (please try to be charitable 🙂

I may follow up on the points for greater clarity of understanding, but I’m hoping that this thread will not degenerate into arguments. I’d like this thread to be more of a discussion. An exchange of ideas. If you’d like to challange what someone wrote, I would appreaciate it if you would open a new thread and link to it from here. Questions like, why do you believe X, Y or Z are good.

God bless,
Ut
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The things I like:
  1. That Catholics have enough faith and confidence in their own beliefs to declare that theirs is the 'only true church," something that I would hope everybody really feels about their own beliefs, even if I happen to think they are sadly mistaken. 😉
  2. Catholics have a belief in personal morality and responsibility for their own salvation that, while not in the least discounting the absolute necessity of God’s grace, still makes the individual responsible for his or her own actions. No 'name it and claim it" silliness.
The things I don’t like…or rather, the things I regret:
  1. That Catholicism has a history of intolerance toward other faiths, even other Christian faiths, that has caused some very nasty and violent episodes over the last millennium and a half; it’s possible to believe that one has the "only true church’ AND allow others to believe as they will.
  2. The second is like the first one, and it is a problem that isn’t specific to Catholicism. They buy into the 'anti…(insert belief system here)" mindset, and not only allow, but celebrate, those who attack the faith and beliefs of others. even as they are upset when others do this to them.
(shrug)

Ah, well.
 
Things I like:

a) Sacraments
b) Whether it knows it or not, Catholicism maintains an energetically balanced service.

Things I dislike:
a) The institutionalized arrogance.
b) Papal Authority.
 
I like:
  1. The Mass. In a country of rock-band church services, the solemn worship of a mass comes closer to spirituality than most.
  2. The tradition. Going to mass is like stepping into a different time period.
I dislike:
  1. Teachings on Contraception. Some family members of mine take birth control because they have anemia. Without this control, they would either be bed-ridden, passing out frequently, or dead. I would never condemn them for simply trying to save their own life. The Catholic Church would rather see them be dead than use the evil that is contraception. (italics for sarcastic emphasis)
Furthermore, the church teaching on contraception deludes many in less developed countries to have unprotected sex…which would surely increase the HIV rate.
  1. The USCCB. It pressures legislators to do what is best in the eyes of their religion instead of what is best for the common citizens. It reminds me of the days in which governments were appointed religious consuls from the pope to assure religiously motivated law making.
 
-I Like-
  1. Tradition
  2. Pro-Life
  3. Rosary
  4. Architecture of the Churches
-I dislike-
  1. View on homosexuality (no I’m not gay)
  2. View on contraceptives
I am very pro-life and not naive enough to think people will remain abstinent therefore we need contraceptives to avoid abortions and STD’s.

Without condoms and/or BC people WILL get pregnant and possibly get an abortion so being against both abortion AND contraceptives is a lose-lose situation.

If a compromise is needed to save a child’s life then so be it.
 
Pros Rosary,

Cons Teaching against Contraception, Going to Confession

Only 2 :hmmm:
 
Like:
  1. Catholic Charismatic Movement
  2. Your reliance and love of the history of Christianity
  3. Your strong unity and community.
  4. Strong stance on morals
  5. Helping the sick and the poor.
  6. Beautiful buildings
  7. How you marvel in the ancient faith and apply it to your own lives.
Dis-like:
  1. Thinking you guys can communicate with Christians who are very alive with the Lord in the afterlife right now, but dead to this world. I feel none of them can hear you and only God is hearing your prayers and honoring them. I do not think your prayers to saints go un-answered though.
  2. Dislike how mundane Christianity is for most Catholics, they do not have the passionate relationship that I see in evangelicals. Like when I read about St. Polycarp of Smyrna, when he prayed to God before his captors took him to be martyred. His passion to keep in prayer with God, to be with him.
  3. I do not agree with the Catholic and Orthodox churches that they believe all that they do is 100% correct. The Liturgy, the Rubrics, the this, the that, etc. Every step of everything you guys do has a plan that must be followed like a magic spell, or it is out of order and God is displeased. Eucharistic Adoration, the Hail Mary, the Our Father as some word for word prayer that must be said exactly, instead of looking at it as a frame work, the alter, the holy water, etc. I am not saying all of these things are all right or all wrong, but I believe they are not necessary in the end and are way too rigid. It seems that if the Liturgy is changed or the music uses new or different instruments than before, or the words to the songs change or the tempo of the songs change, or the language is changed, that all is out of order and displeasing to God. I believe a guy playing a guitar in a basement for 5 other believers while they all sings songs to God together is just as Holy as some Gregorian Chant done in a 5 Million dollar building with the proper Icons on the walls and the Alter and the candles all being in the right place according to proper rubrics.
  4. What I mean with my last statement is, that I believe Christians can hold different beliefs that may or may not be wrong in small ways that God, through the Holy Spirit, helps correct over time in each individuals life to bring them to a place where they are constantly growing with the Father if they are seeking him. If I leave out communion with the saints, am I not saved in the Lord? If I do not have the right idea about the Bread and the wind, does Jesus not honor that I do it in remembrance of him and the Father love me as his son? If I pray standing up with my arms in the air but never pray kneeling do you think the Lord does not hear and love my prayer? If I never say a word to Mary, if she could hear me, and only pray lovingly to the Holy Trinity for my whole life, will my relationship with my Father in Heaven be rewarded with salvation?
 
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