Non-Catholics: If you could change anything (NOT THEOLOGICAL) about the Catholic Church what would it be?

[Memaw]

No more so than decisions made by any other committee of education professionals answerable to the representatives of the electorate. And, incidentally, there should be women on the committee too.

My principal objection to a religious education at such a young age is that much of the material can’t be properly understood or evaluated by the children. Looking back at how I was taught about the Trinity, transubstantiation, heaven and hell, and a host of other things, I am left with the conclusion that it was time that could have been better spent on teaching other more useful things.

More “useful” things!!! What in the world could be more useful??? To grow up in a school where these sacred TRUTHS are taught and gradually understood is so very important to our Faith. Look around and see what has been happening to young people that were never taught properly. Is that what you want for your children? The school can’t do it all but the parents have to teach also, by example and by reading to their children and also teaching them daily about their Holy, Catholic Faith. It is a very serious responsibility, but a joyful one. God Bless, Memaw

 

[TC3033]

Why can’t you be part of it? I’ve seen many times during first communion where a parent appears to be either non-Catholic or unable to receive for some reason (can’t tell from where I sit). There doesn’t seem to be any attempt to exclude those parents/family members.

If you are uncomfortable in your parish why not change?

IDK, because I can’t receive since I’m not Catholic I didn’t think I can be part of communion. Haven’t seen a 1st communion yet.

We’ve switched back and forth a couple times. We really only have two to choose from.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I have little doubt that you are right about the motivation for sending children to Catholic schools. The difficulty I see is with what you describe as the desire for the child to “grow in our faith”. In my view, a child cannot have true faith until they are old enough to understand it properly. Children will have faith in many things, but it is blind faith until they are able to properly employ reason.

I don’t see blind faith as a commendable thing. Hence my opinion that it would be better to teach children about religious beliefs when they are old enough to understand it. A parent’s wish for their child to grow up with appropriate moral values seems eminently sensible. But not so to wish that their child grows up blindly believing the same things that they do.

There is more to being a christian than employing reason. There is a call to holiness and children being innocent and pure are closer to holiness than you or I. We adult christians can learn from christian children.

Child Saints feature in the Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Lutheran churches.

"St. Dominic Savio died at the age of 14 in 1857. When he was canonized a saint in 1954 by Pope Pius XII, he was (and remains) the youngest person ever to have been canonized a saint by the Catholic Church without being some sort of martyr.

Born and raised in Italy, Dominic showed signs of sanctity early on. When he was just 4 years old Dominic was frequently found by his parents in solitary prayer. He learned to be an altar boy at age 5, and if he got to the church before the priest unlocked the doors in the morning, he would kneel (in the mud, snow, whatever) until the priest arrived. When he was just 7 years old, he wrote in his journal that he had four rules:

1. I will go to Confession often, and as frequently to Holy Communion as my confessor allows.
2. I wish to sanctify the Sundays and festivals in a special manner.
3. My friends shall be Jesus and Mary.
4. Death rather than sin.

He happened to attend the school of St. John Bosco, and John became a mentor for Dominic.

As a pre-teen, he experimented with severe physical penances (putting rocks in his bed, wearing a hair shirt, etc), but when his superiors found out, they forbade him from continuing them. Instead, he decided to simply perform all of his duties with as much love and humility as possible, which he summed up with the motto, “I can’t do big things but I want everything to be for the glory of God.” (Remind you of another saint?)

Unfortunately, he contracted a lung disease and died soon after. After he died, John Bosco wrote a biography of Dominic, which was instrumental in Dominic being canonized."

churchpop.com/2015/02/09/5-child-saints-who-totally-put-all-of-us-adults-to-shame/

 

[glad2bhome]

I’ll probably catch flack, but in today’s age where mixed marriages are becoming more and more common, it would be nice if there was a way for the non-Catholic spouse to be more of a member in the Church/congregation, rather than an outsider.

Communion will never happen, but it would go along way to keeping these mixed marriage families in the Church if something could be figured out to make others feel more part of/welcome to be part of the Church even though they’re not Catholic.

As the Catholic in a mixed marriage I couldn’t agree with you more. After 18 years, this issue has contributed to me questioning remaining in the church. It’s been a painful struggle.

 

[Horton]

IDK, because I can’t receive since I’m not Catholic I didn’t think I can be part of communion. Haven’t seen a 1st communion yet.

We’ve switched back and forth a couple times. We really only have two to choose from.

I’m taking a huge leap here and may offend you. If so, I apologize. From your posts I’m picking up a huge resentment toward the Church. Some of it, like the asterisk thing, valid and some maybe not. It appears some may be more what you perceive the Catholic Church is doing as what the Church actually does. You assume you can’t be part of your child’s first communion, but there is nothing to stop your participation. You feel a priest is dismissive toward non-Catholic family members but that is so alien to the role of a priest.

Could it be your resentment is causing you to look as all things Catholic with a tinted lense?

Again I know this may be offensive but my intent is not to offend you, just asking a question.

 

[TC3033]

I’m taking a huge leap here and may offend you. If so, I apologize. From your posts I’m picking up a huge resentment toward the Church. Some of it, like the asterisk thing, valid and some maybe not. It appears some may be more what you perceive the Catholic Church is doing as what the Church actually does. You assume you can’t be part of your child’s first communion, but there is nothing to stop your participation. You feel a priest is dismissive toward non-Catholic family members but that is so alien to the role of a priest.

Could it be your resentment is causing you to look as all things Catholic with a tinted lense?

Again I know this may be offensive but my intent is not to offend you, just asking a question.

Not offensive, and totally valid questions.

I’ll try to keep this from being a wall of text:

I never had an issue with the Catholic Church as a whole when we first started going. Did I carry a little resentment over the closed tabel, sure, but many new outsiders usually do, right?

It isn’t a feeling that we had a priest that carried resentment towards non-Catholic family members. It’s the honest truth. Once he found out you weren’t Catholic, he basically dismissed your existence. My wife didn’t like his conduct towards non-Catholic spouses and the same thing happened to our neighbors across the street. If I remember correctly, he wouldn’t perform our wedding either.

From there we went to my wife’s “home Parrish” where I had the asterisk, non-invites, etc… I had a pretty rough introduction to the Catholic Church. I asked my wife, “Is this legit, does this happen everywhere?” I’m still learning, and starting to figure out this may be more a product of where I live, rather than the Church as a whole.

Honest question, since I’m still learning, if I’m not Catholic and can’t receive how can I participate in a first communion?

Edit: Terrible spelling fail.

 

[Horton]

Not offensive, and totally valid questions.

I’ll try to keep this from being a wall of text:

I never had an issue with the Catholic Church as a whole when we first started going. Did I carry a little resentment over the closed tabel, sure, but many new outsiders usually do, right?

It isn’t a feeling that we had a priest that carried resentment towards non-Catholic family members. It’s the honest truth. Once he found out you weren’t Catholic, he basically dismissed your existence. My wife didn’t like his conduct towards non-Catholic spouses and the same thing happened to our neighbors across the street. If I remember correctly, he wouldn’t perform our wedding either.

From there we went to my wife’s “home Parrish” where I had the asterisk, non-invites, etc… I had a pretty rough introduction to the Catholic Church. I asked my wife, “Is this legit, does this happen everywhere?” I’m still learning, and starting to figure out this may be more a product of where I live, rather than the Church as a whole.

Honest question, since I’m still learning, if I’m not Catholic and can’t receive how can I participate in a first communion?

Edit: Terrible spelling fail.

Of the first communions I’ve seen the children sit in the front pew(s) together, with family in the pews behind. The children receive communion before the rest of the congregation and generally it is the teachers of RE who guide them on what to do at that time rather than the parents (I’m talking just about the logistics of that Mass). So you not being able to receive is a non issue. You participate by being a supportive dad, letting you child know how proud you are of this huge milestone in a Catholic child’s life, just be dad.

As far as the rest, I’m sorry. No one should ever be treated like you’ve been treated. I know there are parishes that don’t treat people like you’ve been treated. I live in a community with a large Hispanic Catholic population and our Spanish Mass is filled to standing room only (I wish the English Mass was) and for many reason about 1/3 of the adults don’t receive. They may be undeveloped, in an irregular marriage, or possibly not Catholic. I can’t imagine our priest treating them poorly.

One possible reason for the asterisk thing is it is used as a calling list for various ministries in which the volunteer needs to be Catholic and this is a way of sorting that out for the callers. Just a guess.

 

[TC3033]

Of the first communions I’ve seen the children sit in the front pew(s) together, with family in the pews behind. The children receive communion before the rest of the congregation and generally it is the teachers of RE who guide them on what to do at that time rather than the parents (I’m talking just about the logistics of that Mass). So you not being able to receive is a non issue. You participate by being a supportive dad, letting you child know how proud you are of this huge milestone in a Catholic child’s life, just be dad.

As far as the rest, I’m sorry. No one should ever be treated like you’ve been treated. I know there are parishes that don’t treat people like you’ve been treated. I live in a community with a large Hispanic Catholic population and our Spanish Mass is filled to standing room only (I wish the English Mass was) and for many reason about 1/3 of the adults don’t receive. They may be undeveloped, in an irregular marriage, or possibly not Catholic. I can’t imagine our priest treating them poorly.

One possible reason for the asterisk thing is it is used as a calling list for various ministries in which the volunteer needs to be Catholic and this is a way of sorting that out for the callers. Just a guess.

Thanks, I just assumed that the parents when through the communion line with their children. I’ve been going through my memory bank and for some reason don’t think I’ve ever been present at a first communion. Is it always Easter?

 

[Horton]

Thanks, I just assumed that the parents when through the communion line with their children. I’ve been going through my memory bank and for some reason don’t think I’ve ever been present at a first communion. Is it always Easter?

Not for generally for kids although there may be some kids receiving first communion at Easter. I don’t know much more than what I’ve observed. I’m a convert and my kids aren’t Catholic (yet ) so I never went through it myself.

 

[Peter_J]

I, too, had been thinking I should clarify about First Communion, but I see Horton beat me to it.

Family doesn’t participate (whether their Catholic or not) but should be present for the sake of making it more memorable – along with the dressing up, taking pictures, and other trimmings (some families have a party after).

 

[Reuben_J]

Thanks, I just assumed that the parents when through the communion line with their children. I’ve been going through my memory bank and for some reason don’t think I’ve ever been present at a first communion. Is it always Easter?

Horton had answered your questions and he was right. I just want to affirm what he said.

A child’s first Communion need not necessarily be on Easter, Baptism usually does. If the first Communion is done in a group, which usually it does, then parents are usually not involved at all in the logistic. The whole process usually is handled by their teachers, and parents don’t even get to sit with their children, as Horton rightly said. Being present is of course important, among other things, to make the child’s first Communion a memorable event.

As for your treatment by the priest (and parish) just because you are a non-Catholic, I completely agree with you. I personally feel it is a dumb thing and Catholic priests and people responsible in running the parish should be considerate to people who are not Catholics. I would call this, legalism. There can be all kinds of rules and many of them can be very legalistic. I am sorry that you are on the receiving end and probably in a parish that needs revamping so that it will be more humane, loving and compassionate.

God bless.

 

[Bran_Stark]

1. End the obsession with copyright restrictions. It makes the Church look rather petty and paranoid. I would like to see the complete official texts of the Missal and the Liturgy of the Hours, both in Latin and English, available for free online.
2. End the mentality that public worship = Mass. At the very minimum, every parish should be able to handle Vespers once a week on Saturday or Sunday evening. As called for by Vatican II…