Non-Catholics on the CA Forum

[churchcamefirst]

Actually the word “εκκλησια” is derived from the preposition “εκ” (“from”, amongst others) and the verb “καλεω” (“I call”) - and the basic meaning of the noun can therefore be described like that of a verb turned into a noun = “the having been called”.

But in the NT, it IS used of the Church Catholic (again - not the same as the RC church!), but it is both used of individual congregations and of the Church in general (1 Cor 14:23 versus 1 Cor 15:9, are two examples of these different uses within the context of the same letter!).

And yes, the word “καθoλικoς” (typo?) means “universal”. That is one of my points as well - i.e. “Not just referring to the RC church”.

And what title the pope has strikes me as rather irrelevant. I could call myself by that title - but that would not mean that the statement would be true. (and to the rest of you outthere: please don’t bring up Matt again? We’ve been through this discussion so many times that it can compare to the tons of spam-mails we all get…)

**Lutheran, I sincerely believe you’d be happier as a Catholic. **

 

[LutheranDK]

**Lutheran, I sincerely believe you’d be happier as a Catholic. **

Why do you say that?

 

[a_cermak]

This is a good question. I was thinking the same thing? I can understand how some folks grapple with issues taught by the Roman Catholic Church that they disagree with or don’t fully understand, and leave for another denomination. That at least makes sense, but I can’t imagine leaving the faith of Christ for a religion that sees itself as unfulfilled and still awaits a messiah that has already come? How can you come to know the Gospel and then not believe in the Lord? Like I said, I at least understand doctrinal differences and arguments about Christ, but rejection of Him I don’t understand?

Well, first I objected to the infusion of politics with religion and with the fundamentalism I saw creeping into Catholicism, so I went to the Episcopalians, but eventually I realized I had no wish to be in Communion with people who were so filled with hate for gay folks that they would cheer for laws making it illegal for them to have civil rights in Nigeria.

So I was searching for a faith, and my father suggested I reconsider Judaism. I was reared in the Jewish faith by my single father, though I was not a Jew because my mother was a non-Jew.

So I reconsidered Judaism (Reform) and have found myself at home in a religion that embraces the Enlightenment and rationalism. That emphasizes both ethical living and autonomy of individuals in their lives of faith.

I suppose now I wonder if I had ever believed in a literal Jesus that literally rose from the dead. I am not one for miracles, have never accepted them as real, so I suppose I’m in a better faith for that.

 

[churchcamefirst]

Why do you say that?

I just feel it.

 

[LutheranDK]

Tell me what is the title of our Catechism? It isn’t called Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. It’s called Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Compendium of the Catholic Church.

Roman Catholic Church refers to the Latin Rites. Do you not realized that 300 yrs ago, certain Orthodox Church reunited with Vatican. These are called uniates Churches who recognized the authority of the Pope.

To say the Catholic Church is the “Roman Catholic Church” it would be an insult to a Catholic who is NOT ROMAN but Byzantine, or Antiochean Catholic etc…

I really care very little what the title of the Catechism of the RC-church is. Because it is not relevant.

I maintain what I have said: This church is led from Rome - hence: The Roman-Catholic Church.
Then one can dig deeper and say that within the RC-church, there are byzantine, arabic, etc rites. But the Roman-Catholic Church is the correct term, to avoid confusion with the Church Catholic. And this is one area where I will stand firm regardless of how much anyone howls.

 

[LutheranDK]

I just feel it.

I feel otherwise

 

[churchcamefirst]

Well, first I objected to the infusion of politics with religion and with the fundamentalism I saw creeping into Catholicism, so I went to the Episcopalians, but eventually I realized I had no wish to be in Communion with people who were so filled with hate for gay folks that they would cheer for laws making it illegal for them to have civil rights in Nigeria.

So I was searching for a faith, and my father suggested I reconsider Judaism. I was reared in the Jewish faith by my single father, though I was not a Jew because my mother was a non-Jew.

So I reconsidered Judaism (Reform) and have found myself at home in a religion that embraces the Enlightenment and rationalism. That emphasizes both ethical living and autonomy of individuals in their lives of faith.

I suppose now I wonder if I had ever believed in a literal Jesus that literally rose from the dead. I am not one for miracles, have never accepted them as real, so I suppose I’m in a better faith for that.

But if you were Catholic, that means you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You say that you were faking it? That as a Catholic you were sceptical of Christ? How was that being a Catholic?

 

[churchcamefirst]

I feel otherwise

Can we still be friends?:hug1:

 

[Namesake]

I’ve been participating on this forum off and on for four years, and one thing that has always puzzled me is the number of non-Catholics on this forum. Many of course, are in the process of converting to Catholicism, or are thinking about it, or are simply curious as to what the Catholic Church teaches, and that is a good thing. But what really surprises me are the number of people active on this forum who have no interest in the Catholic faith or are downright hostile to it.
I recall reading a post by one Protestant Christian (I believe a member of the Reformed Church) who proudly declared, “I’ll never swim the Tiber.” Fine and dandy, but then why are you wasting your time here? I myself will never swim the Elbe, or the Rhone, or the Thamaes, or convert to some non-Christian religion, but I have better things to do with my life than troll non-Catholic boards and tell them why they’re wrong (I probably spend too much time HERE as it is ).
So, if these people are that against the Catholic Church, then why do they come (before I became Catholic I wouldn’t have been caught dead on a Catholic forum)? Are they hoping to “rescue” us from the “Whore of Babylon?”

Ya’all are just fascinating in your beliefs.

 

[a_cermak]

But if you were Catholic, that means you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You say that you were faking it? That as a Catholic you were sceptical of Christ? How was that being a Catholic?

No, I suppose I truly believed at that time. But I think it was more the idea of Christ and the Rabbi that I found when I read his words in the Gospels. I will admit to always being more fond of Jesus words than the story of the miracles. This is all in hindsight though. At the time, I would guess I really believed. Now, with the passage of time, I do not believe.

 

[LutheranDK]

Can we still be friends?:hug1:

I don’t have a lot of friends who I disagree with theologically, so of course :tiphat:

 

[churchcamefirst]

No, I suppose I truly believed at that time. But I think it was more the idea of Christ and the Rabbi that I found when I read his words in the Gospels. I will admit to always being more fond of Jesus words than the story of the miracles. This is all in hindsight though. At the time, I would guess I really believed. Now, with the passage of time, I do not believe.

I will pray for your soul.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No, I suppose I truly believed at that time. But I think it was more the idea of Christ and the Rabbi that I found when I read his words in the Gospels. I will admit to always being more fond of Jesus words than the story of the miracles. This is all in hindsight though. At the time, I would guess I really believed. Now, with the passage of time, I do not believe.

Hi a_cermak,

I’m not going to speak condescendingly to you and tell you “I’ll pray for your soul” like some folks do. But I’d encourage you yourself to continue in prayer and study of the scriptures and I think between the real life histories of Christ (Josephus), the powerful tradition of the early church to today, and the Gospel, Christ is truly the Son of God fulfilling the OT. The Messiah did not come just for one group of people, the Jewish people, He came for us all. I think a strong mediation on the Passion of Christ, seeing what He went through for our salvation, the humiliation and degradation He faced, the touching way He became man and took on our ills and aches and pains and poverty, His noble teachings and sense of justice, His love of common sense, His hatred of hypocrisy, and ultimately His willingness to lay down His life for His sheep proves Him the Son of God.

When it comes to the enmity toward gay folks that you mentioned as a turn-off, most legitimate Christians don’t hate homosexuals but rather the behavior. And we detest homosexual encounters just as much as adulterous heterosexual ones.

And yes there are, have been, and always will be lousy Catholics, lousy Christians, and lousy Jews. Each group has its bad apples, but look at the founder of our faith–Jesus Christ–don’t look at the people who use His faith for personal gain. Look to Christ and give Him a second chance…and rest assured that we Catholics need prayers as much as you do! We all need praying-for!

 

[churchcamefirst]

Hi a_cermak,

I’m not going to speak condescendingly to you and tell you “I’ll pray for your soul” like some folks do. But I’d encourage you yourself to continue in prayer and study of the scriptures and I think between the real life histories of Christ (Josephus), the powerful tradition of the early church to today, and the Gospel, Christ is truly the Son of God fulfilling the OT. The Messiah did not come just for one group of people, the Jewish people, He came for us all. I think a strong mediation on the Passion of Christ, seeing what He went through for our salvation, the humiliation and degradation He faced, the touching way He became man and took on our ills and aches and pains and poverty, His noble teachings and sense of justice, His love of common sense, His hatred of hypocrisy, and ultimately His willingness to lay down His life for His sheep proves Him the Son of God.

When it comes to the enmity toward gay folks that you mentioned as a turn-off, most legitimate Christians don’t hate homosexuals but rather the behavior. And we detest homosexual encounters just as much as adulterous heterosexual ones.

And yes there are, have been, and always will be lousy Catholics, lousy Christians, and lousy Jews. Each group has its bad apples, but look at the founder of our faith–Jesus Christ–don’t look at the people who use His faith for personal gain. Look to Christ and give Him a second chance…and rest assured that we Catholics need prayers as much as you do! We all need praying-for!

That’s it, ignore reality…good grief…

 

[Pier]

I really care very little what the title of the Catechism of the RC-church is. Because it is not relevant.

I maintain what I have said: This church is led from Rome - hence: The Roman-Catholic Church.
Then one can dig deeper and say that within the RC-church, there are byzantine, arabic, etc rites. But the Roman-Catholic Church is the correct term, to avoid confusion with the Church Catholic. And this is one area where I will stand firm regardless of how much anyone howls.

Then which do you prefer?

To be called a Protestant, or more specifically to be associated with the religion named after its founder, Luther?

 

[RNRobert]

People are presenting the Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.

How is this attacking anyone??

.

Because not all of God’s truth is in the written word (2 Thess 2:15), and because I believe non-Catholics distort the written word with unbiblical doctrines like sola scriptura and sola fide. As a non-Catholic I read the Bible and what I read did not square with the doctrine of “Faith Alone,” which is why I became Catholic.

 

[RNRobert]

Re the Catholic Church “carrying water” for the GOP. The voter’s guide doesn’t advocate any particular party, it just outlines certain ‘non-negotiables’ such as abortion, euthanasia, etc. and that Catholics should not vote for candidates that support these positions. Considering that the Democratic party is ardently pro-abortion, that doesn’t leave too many alternatives.

 

[khutcheson]

Because not all of God’s truth is in the written word (2 Thess 2:15), and because I believe non-Catholics distort the written word with unbiblical doctrines like sola scriptura and sola fide. As a non-Catholic I read the Bible and what I read did not square with the doctrine of “Faith Alone,” which is why I became Catholic.

Please answer his question. How is that attacking anyone?

 

[uglygal]

Just because you are a Former Catholic does not give you an authority that you know the Catholic faith. To be honest, I think you are more ignorant of the Catholic faith and lack the understanding of our faith.

Catholicism is not Agnostic. Agnostic beliefs is not certain about the existence of God. The Catholic Church affirms the Nicene Creed which is said on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation. You have a distorted view of Catholicism. You never understand nor do other Ex-Catholics in this forum.

and if we “understood” we would naturally choose to be catholic?
This sounds very similar to arguments i hear from muslims, oh if only you understood you would believe.
because we do not believe it must be because we do not understand and we do not understand because we are … stupid exactly what is insinuated here.

What of former-catholics who used to be priests, bishops, who were apologists, who belonged and attended weekly mass for 20, 40, 50 years? … none of them understood their faith?

I always find this remark, and you are not the only one to make it, to be somewhat uncharitable and inaccurate. People leave catholicism because they do not understand it, because they do understand it, because it is too hard, because it is too non-sensical, because of doctrinal reasons, because of social reasons, because they genuinely do not believe it to be the truth, … there are many reasons.

 

[gcnuss]

Then which do you prefer?

To be called a Protestant, or more specifically to be associated with the religion named after its founder, Luther?

The name “Lutheran” was given to those who followed Luther by none other than the Pope himself. From the Bull “Decet Romanum:”

He has now been declared a heretic; and so also others, whatever their authority and rank, who have cared nought of their own salvation but publicly and in all men’s eyes become followers of Martin’s pernicious and heretical sect, and given him openly and publicly their help, counsel and favour, encouraging him in their midst in his disobedience and obstinacy, or hindering the publication of our said missive: such men have incurred the punishments set out in that missive, and are to be treated rightfully as heretics and avoided by all faithful Christians, as the Apostle says (Titus 3:10-11).

Our purpose is that such men should rightfully be ranked with Martin and other accursed heretics and excommunicates, and that even as they have ranged themselves with the obstinacy in sinning of the said Martin, **they shall likewise share his punishments and his name, by bearing with them everywhere the title “Lutheran”… **

Rome has spoken – we are Lutherans!!!