Non Catholics? What bugs you the most about Catholics?

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tgGodsway said:
The word of God is clear that Jesus Christ is our mediator making intercession for the Church, not the CC’s decreed Mary
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We are all intercessors. When we pray for others we intercede. That is what the Church teaches.

Intercessor is another word for mediator. There can be lesser mediators or why pray at all for others?

Paul tells us there should be “supplications, prayers and intercessions to be made for all men”

Christ is our one mediator/intercessor, yet, St. Paul commands all Christians to be intercessors/mediators

Having many mediators does not take away from Christ but rather fills up what is lacking in the body of Christ, the Church. Mary participates in Christ’s mediation, just as we do when we pray.

That’s nothing to repent of, but something to be followed.
 
agree on the body mediating for one another, even offices to that end. Still does not answer that subtle institutionalizing of mediating authority, of strict giftings toward sacramental experience/mediating. That is, that the desired access to Christ in communion or forgiveness of sin is thru a priest (not that lay or deacons etc. can’t , but only when priest is not accessible). Think about it. Thousands were saved in Jerusalem. They had no central church building .They met in individual homes to fellowship, break bread (mass). Hard to believe the twelve apostles went around to consecrate and hear confessions daily to thousands. Yes to elders, presbyters , but not more OT heirus, levitical priests…all have access to the holy of holies, all heirus priests. I mean if Christ is with two or more gathered, break bread , or confess faults to one another, just as Christ is also with a large assembly, with an appointed president, to preside in an orderly fashion.
 
mcq72 said:
Hard to believe the twelve apostles went around to consecrate and hear confessions daily to thousands.
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The early church was also much smaller and less organized. Over time certain disciplines arose which led to greater uniformity and efficiency. The twelve appointed others to take their place and to consecrate priests, who would hear confessions in public all at once. Private confession came much later in Church history.

There are good reasons why Christ instituted seven sacraments and priests to administer some of the them. Seven isn’t just a lucky number, it is the number of the covenant, and the word for covenant oath is sacramentum.
 
Yes you are right. Getting a sermon or homily. In the flesh. Is actually common.

This is why non catholics. Or Christians. Go to meetings with Anointed speakers.

Those who receive a prophetic person. Can share in that spiritual Anointing.
 
tgGodsway said:
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JonNC:
one particular bishop
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JonNC… the Holy Spirit said that Peter held the office of Apostle not bishop. Why give him such a demotion? Repentance is needed to all who hold such a deviation from the word of God.
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I don’t think I mentioned St Peter, but that said, why does his being an apostle exclude him from also being a bishop? I see no mutual exclusivity.
 
1 Corinthians 1:10 King James Version (KJV)
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

John 17:21 King James Version (KJV)
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

All Christians Catholic or not need to quit arguing over simple scriptural or cultural disagreements and realize the one simple truth of God’s love. We are to love others as christ first loved us.

Church is not about what we believe or our interpretation of the word of God, its about fellowship of the believers in unity with christ. Rather than condemn people for believing slightly different than we do we should find common ground and focus on loving others with agape love.
 
Please give me a biblical example of how believers who have passed on, continue to pray for us and how this is taught to the Church by the N.T. writers and Apostles. A agree with most of what you have said, but just to seal the deal, please site at least two biblical sources telling me that this position comes from the Holy Spirit.
 
Sure, Rev 5:8 and 8:3-4.

The Saints are alive in heaven, and if they can see us and hear us, then they can hear our prayers and pray for us. Just like those on earth see and hear and pray for us.
 
The Rev. 5 passage only tells us the Lion from the tribe of Judah took the scroll from the four living creatures. The bowls (symbolically) had the prayers of the saints. This passage does show what you say it shows.

In the Revelation 8 passage the angel of God came and stood at the altar with the prayers of all the saints. The wording is unclear, but implies that the angel was to rehearse these prayers before God. verse 4 says these prayers went up from the angels hand.
 
I don’t think it should be an either, or, solution Joeljohn1,

Unity comes over understanding divine knowledge. I agree no one should harbor resentment or ill will. There is no reason why anyone should and if they do they should get right with God.

But unity does not come in a vacuum. It comes through hard work hashing out the biblical narratives and putting to the test all things, as the Apostle Paul said we should do in 1st. Thess. 5:21.

Consider the leaders at Berea how they “searched the scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.” ACTS 17:11.

All of this should be done in humility and grace. I have to check myself daily and sometimes apologize for the way I may have said something. But all of that is part of growing up in Christ. To avoid disagreement at all cost will leave you in the dark.
 
Hi dann,

I would say that flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit, that flesh can not comprehend spirit, yet those that are of the spirit have varying gifts and levels of maturity , and of course we can always benefit from anointed speakers or those more mature in the faith
 
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tgGodsway said:
The Rev. 5 passage only tells us the Lion from the tribe of Judah took the scroll from the four living creatures. The bowls (symbolically) had the prayers of the saints. This passage does show what you say it shows.

In the Revelation 8 passage the angel of God came and stood at the altar with the prayers of all the saints. The wording is unclear, but implies that the angel was to rehearse these prayers before God. verse 4 says these prayers went up from the angels hand.
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That is not the interpretation of the Church and biblical scholars. It is the prayers of the Saints, those in heaven. You asked for biblical basis, but you interpret it away from the traditional interpretation from the early Church. You have to look at the context of that letter and the context of the early Christian interpretation of those passages.

The Catholic Church merely passes down what she has received from those first Christians.
 
unity I believe is good, avoiding disagreement though good can also be bad. For if we agreed with everyone we would be as the world and afraid to disagree with each other. There are different kinds of unity and different kinds of love. Pefect unity is within the body of christ and not of this world. Perfect love cast out all fear and does not boast or brag.

I totally agree with you search the scriptures as the bereans did tgGodsway. Because we must as Christians have understanding so we can know what constitutes as truth and what only pretends to constitute as truth.

The true interpretation of the word of God does not come from carnal analysis or reasoning but through allowing the real holy spirit to guide us through the word and help us to understand the true meaning of the scriptures and not just go by any old church doctrine.

This is how one discerns the scriptures acurately and therefore gains understanding of the word as God would have us see it instead of how we think it is by our own understanding.
 
I made no interpretation at all. I simply called you on yours. The content doesnt say what you say it says. The words are not there. That is not an interpretation but an observation. Nor did you prove historical claim.
 
Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

These passages confirm that those in heaven offer up prayers for the holy ones on earth. The prayers of the saints are not the prayers of thr saints already in heaven, but the saints is a term for those still on earth.

So, the elders (saints in heaven) and the angels offer our prayers to God.
 
anon65111186 said:
The bible says she is full of grace, which is only possible if she had no sin.
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On what biblical bases do you say this?.. Grace is all about having favor with God despite any state of sin. Favor/grace requires a merciful God to accept us.

To say that because she was full of grace therefore she was sinless can only mean that she did not need grace. Sinless people do not need grace. They can stand before God without the worry of condemnation. But there is no such person in all the world who is not an object of grace. Mary was full of grace, meaning full of (undeserved) favor with God.
 
How is the Catholic Church like Iran? Do we have nuclear weapons? Do execute homosexuals by throwing them off of high buildings? do we chant ‘death to america’ and ‘death to Israel?’
 
tgGodsway said:
These notions are close to idolatry. The word of God is clear that Jesus Christ is our mediator making intercession for the Church, not the CC’s decreed Mary.

This belief requires repentance from the CC, to God for such a deviation from the word of God.
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Please tell us how you arrived at such a outlandish accusation from the words i wrote?
 
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