Non-Catholics, what do you dislike most

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To the non-Catholics on the board–what do you dislike most about the Catholic Church?

What 3 doctrines are most problematic for you? What do you know about those 3 doctrines, and what exactly do you disagree with?
 
To the non-Catholics on the board–what do you dislike most about the Catholic Church?

What 3 doctrines are most problematic for you? What do you know about those 3 doctrines, and what exactly do you disagree with?
Im not a non-Catholic, but I bet that most here seem to have a problem with any doctrines regarding the Virgin Mary and Papal infallibility.
 
  1. Veneration of Mary
  2. Veneration of saints
  3. Authority of the Church
The first two issues are significant. I don’t understand the scriptural basis for either. The third issue is much less significant to me.
 
To the non-Catholics on the board–what do you dislike most about the Catholic Church?

What 3 doctrines are most problematic for you? What do you know about those 3 doctrines, and what exactly do you disagree with?
All of the Marian dogmas.
I do not agree with a Papacy from a Bible or historical perspective. I love it from a practical perspective though.
Thinking here:confused:
And a couple of other things, nothing too major.
The biggest qualm is with the exclusive in your face we are better than you folks.
I actually came here feeling ecumenical and such and became the exact opposite…thats why I have taken a long break and am feeling the love again…😉
BH
 
The biggest qualm is with the exclusive in your face we are better than you folks.
That’s funny! That’s what Catholics get from non-Catholic Christians all the time.
 
All of the Marian dogmas.
I do not agree with a Papacy from a Bible or historical perspective. I love it from a practical perspective though.
Thinking here:confused:
And a couple of other things, nothing too major.
The biggest qualm is with the exclusive in your face we are better than you folks.
I actually came here feeling ecumenical and such and became the exact opposite…thats why I have taken a long break and am feeling the love again…😉
BH
That’s unfortunate that you fee this way - but I TOTALLY understand.
I, myself have been less than charitable from time to time to non-Catholics. Let me rephrase that - ANTI-Catholics. I think that most of the Catholic posters on this board only get that was because of the attacks against our faith - not the questions.


**I would rather spend my day dialoging with people about our faith than arguing about it. I feel that we can give a little on both sides of the coin. **

I have always considered myself “Pro-Catholic”, not “Anti-Protestant”.
 
First I would have to say the claims of infallibility for both the Church and the Pope.

Second would be the requirement to believe the Marian dogmas, not necessarily the beliefs themselves.

Third, the claim to be the one true Church; one of the churches yes but not the one and only.
 
Third, the claim to be the one true Church; one of the churches yes but not the one and only.
Because it is true. Jesus established only one Church. He did say in Matthew 16:17-19;

**“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

Jesus addresses as singular Church. He didn’t say churches. He established one Church.
 
To the non-Catholics on the board–what do you dislike most about the Catholic Church?

What 3 doctrines are most problematic for you? What do you know about those 3 doctrines, and what exactly do you disagree with?

If I were to guess it would have to be misunderstanding of the Church, because from a lay persons perspective its too complicated to be religious, its easier if I just believe and have the bible, Sola fe,or Sola Scriptura. I wouldnt need a church authority to tell me what I can believe and what I cant. The disposition of the individual has alot to do about recieving God’s Graces.

The dislikes of the Catholic Church may vary according to which tradition is followed by a non Catholic or Protestant.
 
To the non-Catholics on the board–what do you dislike most about the Catholic Church?

What 3 doctrines are most problematic for you? What do you know about those 3 doctrines, and what exactly do you disagree with?
Since you asked…in no particular order,

(1) Now I am not particularly a eternally secure Calvinist, but Catholicism really seems to be a totally insecure faith. I have seen to much of fearful Catholics coming to this board petrified that they will go to hell if they miss mass, miss the fast before mass, masturbate, or any number of sins that you classify as mortal. If I were to actually be a Catholic, the idea that an ill-timed death could send me eternally to hell because I skipped the hour fast before mass (do not pass go…do not collect $200…would drive me absolutely nuts). I have to believe that my salvation is more stable than the whim of turning a light on and off.

If I were Catholic and took this seriously I would have to conclude that a very high percent of Catholics are in hell based on:
  • The percentage of Catholics that go to confession
  • The percentage of Catholics that infrequently go to confession (it seems to me that if you go once a year there is a high probability of a mortal sin slipping in there at least once a year…I mean what percentage of Catholics faithfully go to mass…faithfully observe all the rules…without one slipup during the year).
It’s sad that I have more confidence in seeing y’all (well most of you anyway) in heaven than you seem to have in yourselves.

(2) The one true church document is a problem. First of all the criteria which you claim to be the one true church doesn’t distinguish y’all from the Orthodox…or if it does…it is so subtle that I can’t get it. Anyway, if you are not careful, it can really breed an arrogance that is a first-class turn off to non Catholics. And I have seen that so many times on this board I have told myself many times that I don’t have to put up with this…I am leaving and not coming back. But I guess I am addicted to arguing over the internet or something…

It is also a turn off when the rest of us are called heretics. Maybe I am just the sensitive type, but the word heretic invokes a mental image of folks frying at the stake. Not good.

In summary when you claim to be the one true church and the rest of us heretics, I stiffen up and ask you to prove it by either (1) your lifestyle that clearly demonstrates that Catholicism is superior. (2) Through the Bible. (1) you haven’t done and (2) you can not do.

(3) would be papal infallability. All of the arguments that you all claim support the pope being incapable of error really only support the idea that God designed one central, authoritative church. There is a logical difference between one scoring 100 on a math exam and being unable to score anything other than 100 on a math exam. There is a logical difference between being an authority on an issue and being unable to be incorrect on an issue. Your arguments only support the lesser of these possibilites.

On a practical matter papal infallability makes backout (in case you are wrong impossible. First you have to backout papal infallability and then you have to backout where you think you are wrong. One difference between y’all and us is that if we think we are wrong on an issue of Scripture we (should anyway) just come out and say it. You can’t. Instead you have to come up with an explanation that really seems forced.

On another practical matter, infallability seems to have led to a method of interpreting the Bible that seems…well creative. Now I can’t open my Bible and conclusively prove that you are wrong in this. But on some issues I highly doubt whether it is possible that anybody who does not start with the assumption that the Catholic church is incapable of being incorrect will come to the same interpretations of the Bible that y’all have come up with.
 
From what I can gather in this thread. It is misunderstanding. They can’t grasp why we Catholics believe what we believe.
 
  1. Veneration of Mary
  2. Veneration of saints
  3. Authority of the Church
The first two issues are significant. I don’t understand the scriptural basis for either. The third issue is much less significant to me.
1,2 - there doesn’t have to be any scriptural basis for them. Protestant dogma Sola Scriptura is wrong. Even protestants can’t find it anywhere in the Bible, hehe…
There’s nothing wrong in venerating the Mother of God. She asked us in Fatima to say the rosary, it means it is a God’s will to do so. There’s nothing wrong in asking Mary or saints for intercession. It works! I feel sorry for protestants who lose so much because of their errors.
 
If I were Catholic and took this seriously I would have to conclude that a very **high percent of Catholics **are in hell based on:
  • The percentage of Catholics that go to confession
  • The percentage of Catholics that infrequently go to confession (it seems to me that if you go once a year there is a high probability of a mortal sin slipping in there at least once a year…I mean what percentage of Catholics faithfully go to mass…faithfully observe all the rules…without one slipup during the year).
A high percentage of Catholics going to hell? Well, I don’t know what divine revelation you have received. It’s not just Catholics, but every unrepentant sinner who are in hell. That includes Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Gentiles, Non-Believers. They are in hell. Hell is not just for unrepentent Catholics.
(2) The one true church document is a problem. First of all the criteria which you claim to be the one true church doesn’t distinguish y’all from the Orthodox…or if it does…it is so subtle that I can’t get it. Anyway, if you are not careful, it can really breed an arrogance that is a first-class turn off to non Catholics. And I have seen that so many times on this board I have told myself many times that I don’t have to put up with this…I am leaving and not coming back. But I guess I am addicted to arguing over the internet or something…
The mere fact is this. Just I posted before. Jesus only established One Church. He build one Church upon Peter, the Rock. In the beginning there was only One Church. By 1054 AD, the Church divided into east and west. Catholic Church in the West, and Eastern Orthodoxy in the East. Yet both maintain Apostolic Succession.

EO’s theology is not that far off from Catholicism though their beliefs are expressed differently. I am confident in Christ that he will unit the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church as One Church. When this happens, Protestants will be left out and start to ponder the meaning of the unity.
It is also a turn off when the rest of us are called heretics. Maybe I am just the sensitive type, but the word heretic invokes a mental image of folks frying at the stake. Not good.
Some of the beliefs you Protestant have are heretical. You did acknowledge that you don’t believe in OSAS. Yet some Protestants believe this. Faith alone is also a heretic belief as well as Sola Scriptura is another heretical belief that stem out of Protestantism.
In summary when you claim to be the one true church and the rest of us heretics, I stiffen up and ask you to prove it by either (1) your lifestyle that clearly demonstrates that Catholicism is superior. (2) Through the Bible. (1) you haven’t done and (2) you can not do.
The Catholic Church is the only interpreter of the Scripture. Christianity is not the religion of the Book. We are the religion of the Word of God. The Word of God is a person. He is incarnate. His name is Jesus Christ. The Word of God consist of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
(3) would be papal infallability. All of the arguments that you all claim support the pope being incapable of error really only support the idea that God designed one central, authoritative church. There is a logical difference between one scoring 100 on a math exam and being unable to score anything other than 100 on a math exam. There is a logical difference between being an authority on an issue and being unable to be incorrect on an issue. Your arguments only support the lesser of these possibilites.
Papal infallibility is based on Jesus granting authority to Peter when he gave him the keys of the kingdom to bind and loose. When the Pope teaches in moral and faith, he is preserve from teaching error. Infallibility is not limited to the Pope. The Magisterium also share this gift. When the Church teaches through the Council, she has this authority. When Church declare that Trinity is part of the orthodox Christian belief, it was through the infallible authority of the Church.
 
On a practical matter papal infallability makes backout (in case you are wrong impossible. First you have to backout papal infallability and then you have to backout where you think you are wrong. One difference between y’all and us is that if we think we are wrong on an issue of Scripture we (should anyway) just come out and say it. You can’t. Instead you have to come up with an explanation that really seems forced.
The Catholic Church cannot back out of Papal Infallibility. It is part of Divine Revelation. It is part of the Deposit of faith. It cannot change. If the Church were too, then she would fall into error. Look what happened to other Catholics who left Rome. The Old Catholic ordained homosexual priests, homosexual marriage, and ordained women priests.

Papal Infallibility cannot be compromised. The Catholic Church does go by the opinions of others, particularly Protestants who really don’t have any say in Catholic Church’s teaching.
On another practical matter, infallability seems to have led to a method of interpreting the Bible that seems…well creative. Now I can’t open my Bible and conclusively prove that you are wrong in this. But on some issues I highly doubt whether it is possible that anybody who does not start with the assumption that the Catholic church is incapable of being incorrect will come to the same interpretations of the Bible that y’all have come up with.
Interpreting Scripture has to be read in the same Holy Spirit who inspired the Book in the first place. If it wasn’t, people will interpret the Scripture in different ways, and can misinterpret a particular passage in the Bible. You can easily justify murder by interpreting the Bible by yourself without a guide to lead you.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives a good advise concerning interpretation of Scripture.

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.

110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. “For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression.”

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.

112 1. Be especially attentive “to the content and unity of the whole Scripture”. Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God’s plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.

The phrase “heart of Christ” can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.

113 2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church").

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith. By “analogy of faith” we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.
 
A high percentage of Catholics going to hell? Well, I don’t know what divine revelation you have received.
Just to clarify…no divine revelation. And I don’t know for sure that this is actually the case.

But I am capable of observing and drawing conclusions.

The logic here is that mortal sin damns a Christian to hell unless it is repented of in confession.

So if I were to observe (hypothetically of course):
(1) A high percentage of Catholics committing mortal sin like not attending mass or holy days of obligation (not to mention nonvisible mortal sins that statistics tell us are common like masturbation). (BTW I have seen statstics posted here that this is the case…I am not going to go search and find them…sorry)
(2) A low percentage of Catholics going to confession…and an even lower percentage going to confession more than once a year (also I have seen statistics posted here that this is the case).

I would certainly be capable of adding 1+1 and coming up with 2.
 
  1. Papal infallibility - the root cause of all catholic issues. the rest are peanuts. but anyway…
  2. Anti-Divorce policies - Ridiculous
  3. Anti-Contraception policies - Ridiculous
 
  1. Anti-Divorce policies - Ridiculous
The Church didnt make this up. Jesus Himself did not allow divorce.

Mark 10:
5"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. 6"But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7’For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,** 8and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

10When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=10&version=31&context=chapter**
 
The Church didnt make this up. Jesus Himself did not allow divorce.
Thats a matter of opinion. Protestant interpretation on the verse which says “except for fornication” is more realistic.
 
Moer realistic based on what?
Based on whats happening in the real world.

Like when a couple who was married by the church at 18.And 2 years later the guy cheated and left his wife for another woman. The rcc law demands the 20 yr old wife to be single forever. At that young age she is sure to fall in love with another.

These things happen in reality and church or no church catholics in this scenario follow their heart, not the ridiculous church laws.
 
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